Hertz Dumping Electric Cars, Buying Petrol - Daily Telegraph

[Dex-Jay]

Not sure how many multi-storey car parks have been destroyed by electric cars catching fire (I'm not aware of any), but the one at Luton airport which destroyed 1400 cars was initially reported to be due to an electric car (usual hysterical press speculation), but was later found to be due to an electrical fault in a diesel Range Rover.

Are news articles still hysterical press speculation / conspiracy theories if they turn out to be true?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmbHpqWjMVE Electric cars catch fire in carparks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zaV-JSwzzA Tesla still on fire underwater.

It's no speculation or exaggeration to say electrioc car fires are tough to put out. Speak to anyone who works in the fire service. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwxZu3nVOZ0

I'm sure in years to come they'll be perfected but that won't be happening anytime soon.

 

[Pooman2084]

lithium batteries fires are harder to put out but there are fewer fires per 1000 vehicles with EVs.

Sorry, I’m out and about so can’t provide sources.

Water is a poor way of putting out lots of types of fires. I’m sure I’ve seen specialist battery extinguishers, but they are few and far between.

 

[johnwhitfield]

As a group I suspect 50 year olds into pinball are probably generally not the most likely to embrace social changes. I’m still assuming mobile phone are a fad and will soon pass,

 

[Calimori]

Just to be clear, I'm not particularly a fan of electric cars, not because I don't like the concept, but more that they are not the solution that they are made out to be and are nowhere near as "environmentally friendly" as advertised, once you take into account the environmental impact of producing the batteries, generating the electricity etc.. Also long-term costs don't look good given the high initial price and heavy depreciation due to high repair costs, insurance costs, and the inevitable need to replace the battery a few years down the line (£10-£15k seems to be mentioned as a ballpark for Teslas). I'm sure these costs will come down over time due to improved recycling of the batteries, and wider competition forcing overly-inflated prices down.

These are both in my list of the current negative press arguments.

1) Insurance. I work in the industry and some Tesla renewal quotes have gone from £1k to £9k in a single year. Cars are being written off for minor damage due to the potential battery replacement cost and potential fire liability.

I read this and went and got a quote for a brand new VW ID Buzz and the price is very similar to my VW Golf which is nearly 10 years old and a 10th of the price. So maybe this is a reason not to buy a tesla but not write of EV's.
I skipped the other comment as I don't use the charging network and would only expect to use it when I was going on holiday but at this point, I probably would also consider hiring an IC for the week I needed one. But most cars sit for over 12 hours outside their owners house which is ample time to charge for the next days commute.

So - with Companies charging effectively £55 for a "fill" that would get you under 300 miles whilst on the road, £17k for a replacement battery and generally higher maintenance costs - Failing to see where the carrot is to move over unless you do under 200 miles a month??

This is about charing from a commercial charging station. Charge at home on an EV tarrif and you are saving on IC fuel plus the service costs, paying back the additional outlay on the car over an IC in a short number years. But again, this is all about each persons use of a vehicle, they work now for many and we need to get the other issues fixed.

I could post videos of supercars catching fire, no one is saying they are not ready and desirable. Instead, I will share this as it is very much about the negative press we see now from two guys who we know from the telly.

 

[Tucks]

The problem with this video is that QW is paid for by the EV industry. He's paid to promote Electric vehicles. Propaganda everywhere. Everyone is bought.

We used to live in a world with corruption. We now just live in a corrupt world.

As Arv said, if the Government tells you to do something, you should do the opposite.

 

[Calimori]

Sure, and thanks for sharing that. But every person sharing a video on youtube can be earning from it. You have to think through the bias on everything, not just discount QW view but check all of the views on both sides.

 

[Calimori]

Have you got a way of showing evidence that QW is bought? More than just being a motor journalist?

 

[Pooman2084]

The problem with this video is that QW is paid for by the EV industry. He's paid to promote Electric vehicles. Propaganda everywhere. Everyone is bought.

We used to live in a world with corruption. We now just live in a corrupt world.

As Arv said, if the Government tells you to do something, you should do the opposite.

Don’t tell me Kryton is corrupt! Quick, get spare head number 3!

 

[Tucks]

You not seen terminator?

 

[Wizcat]

I doubt that is true, more likely the quoted price for the battery was more than buying the same age/condition car with a working battery, saw videos of this last year or year before, being quote something like £17k USD for a battery when the car was only worth £17k USD, but was a used car and not a new one.

Hesitant to wade into this, but there were reports of Hyundai IONIQ cars being ever so slightly damaged, like scratches/dents to the battery cover, and then being quoted $60,000 for replacement and being uninsurable otherwise, so basically written off.

Broadly I do think EVs are the future, but like any new tech there will be some bumps that early adopters (and I do think it's still early) need to deal with.

 

[Paul]

Hesitant to wade into this, but there were reports of Hyundai IONIQ cars being ever so slightly damaged, like scratches/dents to the battery cover, and then being quoted $60,000 for replacement and being uninsurable otherwise, so basically written off.

Broadly I do think EVs are the future, but like any new tech there will be some bumps that early adopters (and I do think it's still early) need to deal with.

Ok so here's an example of batteries and why people get so spooked...

I changed my Step-daighters Iphone battery last week. first time i have done this. I accidentally managed to catch the edge of the Lithium Ion cell with a spudger...literally nicked it......... Queue lots of smoke and panic... fortunately i think it only caught a little of the cells, however had that been accross the lot then i am sure i would have had a fire on my hands. a fire that i cannot add water to put it out...

To quote somewhere online...

"Adjacent cells may become hot enough to enter thermal runaway as well, potentially engulfing the entire battery pack. As mentioned previously, these fires are very hot (~800 deg C), nearly impossible to extinguish, and can burn for hours or even days depending on the number and size of the cells affected."

When i took my iphone in to apple for a free battery replacement a few years ago, i ended up with a replacement one. The reason - the battery had expanded and they couldnt safely get the old one out. I laughed and couldnt work out why the fuss... completely get it now!

 

[M4carp]

It’s crazy

https://www.inesta.net/products/electric-vehicle-fire-extinguishing-container-balox/

 

[mission65]

Ok so here's an example of batteries and why people get so spooked...

I changed my Step-daighters Iphone battery last week. first time i have done this. I accidentally managed to catch the edge of the Lithium Ion cell with a spudger...literally nicked it......... Queue lots of smoke and panic... fortunately i think it only caught a little of the cells, however had that been accross the lot then i am sure i would have had a fire on my hands. a fire that i cannot add water to put it out...

To quote somewhere online...

"Adjacent cells may become hot enough to enter thermal runaway as well, potentially engulfing the entire battery pack. As mentioned previously, these fires are very hot (~800 deg C), nearly impossible to extinguish, and can burn for hours or even days depending on the number and size of the cells affected."

When i took my iphone in to apple for a free battery replacement a few years ago, i ended up with a replacement one. The reason - the battery had expanded and they couldnt safely get the old one out. I laughed and couldnt work out why the fuss... completely get it now!

But you still gave the step daughter the phone after putting another fire hazard inside it ?

 

[johnwhitfield]

I’ve not directly heard of anyone whose phone has exploded while being carried around.
Ditto electric scooters etc.
Cases appear to be about whilst being charged and are presumably linked to the wrong chargers being used.

Compare this with say chip pans. Should we be banning them?

As I student I also set fire to a toaster by using it for potato waffles yet it now says you can do that on the packaging. I blame the young. . Nothing but a bunch of wokey libtards with their ticky toky and gender fluid ways (seriously I do feel a bit more like Abraham Simpson though everyday)

 

[mission65]

Yes, we all happily carry mobile phones, and we may all soon be forced to drive ev’s

 

[crsedgar]

Ok so here's an example of batteries and why people get so spooked...

I changed my Step-daighters Iphone battery last week. first time i have done this. I accidentally managed to catch the edge of the Lithium Ion cell with a spudger...literally nicked it......... Queue lots of smoke and panic... fortunately i think it only caught a little of the cells, however had that been accross the lot then i am sure i would have had a fire on my hands. a fire that i cannot add water to put it out

Was the battery on a low charge Paul?

 

[Paul]

But you still gave the step daughter the phone after putting another fire hazard inside it ?

Unless you have some kind of ground-breaking tech to replace it, not sure what the options are? At least it is protected by metal and screen now!

 

[Paul]

Was the battery on a low charge Paul?

Is an Iphone 8 - Old phone, but works for her. At least we got our moneys worth out of that battery!!

 

[Dex-Jay]

Yes, we all happily carry mobile phones, and we may all soon be forced to drive ev’s

Never. I'll ride a donkey down the M6 to collect a machine before I'm forced to drive anything by legislation.

 

[Alpha1]

Never. I'll ride a donkey down the M6 to collect a machine before I'm forced to drive anything by legislation.

 

[Alpha1]

Some of you guys don't half make me laugh.

Like the horse supporters frothing at the mouths when cars were introduced and there were literally hardly any petrol stations and you could only get fuel from cans in hardware stores. Or how people were behaving when seat belts were made into law and some of the 'over my dead body', 'terrible idea', 'how dare they I won't comply' comments really resonate with what I see and hear on social media every day.

EVs will have a place and the innovation and tech that will probably be put into battery and cell technology to make it more efficient, effective and environmentally friendly should be a good thing for all, including you know when we're dead and the planet is passed onto the next generations.

If biofuel becomes viable and every car farts out non toxic gasses fantastic.

If Hydrogen cars become viable then they'll benefit from the EV battery and motor innovation, and again absolutely fantastic.

Humans are bizarre at times, you don't really realise it until you get older.

Embrace change, don't get left behind and become close minded and stuck in your ways. Every day is a learning day until the day you die.

 

[Zaccaria Keith]

After deciding to install solar panels and batteries I was looking to replace my wife's car with a plug in hybrid but she insisted that if she was having an electric car it should be all electic. Having bought her a Renault Zoe I now use it myself at every opportunity as it costs nothing to fuel in the summer from the solar panels and on an EV tariff in the winter it does the equivalent of about 350 MPG. Even better in the winter I can charge the solar batteries from the EV tariff at night for 7.5p/kWh and they then run the house for almost the entire day saving a fortune on daytime electricity at 30p/kWh.

EVs are not economical if you can't charge at home or do a lot of long journeys as public chargers cost up to 80p/kWh making the fuel cost similar to or slightly worse than an ICE vehicle, but we still use the Zoe for UK holiday trips as we can reduce the public charging by leaving home with a full charge and returning with minimal charge left. They certainly aren't for everyone but in the right circumstances work well and I've been very happy with ours.

 

[Monkeyboypaul]

After deciding to install solar panels and batteries I was looking to replace my wife's car with a plug in hybrid but she insisted that if she was having an electric car it should be all electic. Having bought her a Renault Zoe I now use it myself at every opportunity as it costs nothing to fuel in the summer from the solar panels and on an EV tariff in the winter it does the equivalent of about 350 MPG. Even better in the winter I can charge the solar batteries from the EV tariff at night for 7.5p/kWh and they then run the house for almost the entire day saving a fortune on daytime electricity at 30p/kWh.

EVs are not economical if you can't charge at home or do a lot of long journeys as public chargers cost up to 80p/kWh making the fuel cost similar to or slightly worse than an ICE vehicle, but we still use the Zoe for UK holiday trips as we can reduce the public charging by leaving home with a full charge and returning with minimal charge left. They certainly aren't for everyone but in the right circumstances work well and I've been very happy with ours.

100%

 

[DRD]

Hertz selling them

Norwegian ferries banning them

Norwegian Ferry Company Bans Electrified Vehicles From Being Transported on Its Ships

Havila Krystruten, a Norwegian ferry company, announced it would only transport ICE cars on its ships following a fire risk assessment

www.autoevolution.com

Car transportation ferries up in smoke

Disaster averted as burnt car carrier reaches port - BBC News

The crippled Fremantle Highway is towed into Eemshaven after fire ravaged the ship for a week.

www.bbc.co.uk

Ferry companies grapple with rising threat of EV fires

Ferry companies, which carry both large and varied numbers of vehicles and a multitude of passengers, could be particularly at risk from fires breaking out on

rina.org.uk

London bus company withdrawing entire electric fleet as a precautionary measure

Electric buses withdrawn after fire - BBC News

A fleet of electric buses have been withdrawn as a "precaution" after electric bus caught fire.

www.bbc.co.uk

When it's cold, the electric buses don't run

Electric buses stand still due to cold weather

Efforts to promote 'sustainable public transport' stalled when the cold weather arrived.

nordictimes.com

The beauty with Lithium is that when you heat it and pour water on it - as would happen with a car park or boat sprinkler system, or a regular fire engine ..... the chemical reaction releases hydrogen. The stuff the Hindenberg was filled with. And even when you think it is out, it might well reignite hours or days later.



It wouldn't be so bad if just the Electric car guys faced massive increases in insurance premia - but the presence of these cars on the roads is hitting those of us with ICE cars too.

Akin to the poorest in society subsidising (through energy levies) the wealthiest landowners to have wind turbines and solar cells on their land.

 

[Calimori]

You have a bias and an agenda, you are not entering into a discussion.
You haven’t found new statistics on EV’s issues being worse than IC’s, you are recycling the same stories. Fear and doubt, not facts and science.

It is not uncommon for a fleet to be removed when an unexplained issue is being investigated.

Extreme cold weather, -35, grounds electric buses isn’t a shocker. It would ground most of England, our transport would all stop. Scotland would have to put a jumper on.
What surprises me is that they did not predict this and put climate control on the batteries. It isn’t like EV’s can’t learn from IC development.

All drivers are subsiding other drivers mistakes and decisions.

And to the others who think EV’s spontaneously combust and then burn uncontrollably, is this all EV’s or just Tesla’s?

 

[Paul]

https://www.tuvsud.com/en-us/resource-centre/stories/lithium-ion-battery-fires-myth-vs-reality

 

[Asiapinball]

It wouldn't be so bad if just the Electric car guys faced massive increases in insurance premia - but the presence of these cars on the roads is hitting those of us with ICE cars too.

The insurance premiums on my Jag i-pace EV are shocking:

2019: £1,219 (brand new)
2020: £1,115 (1 year old)
2021: £994 (2 years old)
2022: £1,048 (brand new)
2023: £1,201 (1 year old)

There is so much misinformation bandied around about EVs including a good chunk of what is in this thread (I just randomly picked the insurance example to demonstrate but could have chosen others). ICE cars are getting hikes for other reasons; not to subsidise EV drivers.

And "EV" does not equal "Tesla" - there are plenty of other brands on the road today.

It's simple - if you don't like EVs you don't have to drive one or buy one. It's a personal choice. For me, the daily driver will now always be full EV; For that purpose I wouldn't now take the backward step to ICE. And that's from a petrolhead with 3 ICE classics; two rotaries and a 5.3L V12.

It's a shame that the internet has turned into 99% shopping/opinion/misinformation and only 1% fact which you now have to search hard for.

 

[DRD]

Unless you are wealthy enough to be in a subsidised company car scheme, you might well get burned by one of these things.

Noticed all the EV adverts everywhere ?

Guardian Newspapers (head lobby group of the oil industry):

"More than 20% of each manufacturer’s new cars sold in 2024 must be zero-emission or they will potentially face fines of £15,000 per vehicle, under the targets proposed in a government consultation this year."

UK carmakers will have to meet electric car sales targets despite Sunak U-turn

Firms call for support as government presses ahead with plan to impose minimum sales quotas in 2024

www.theguardian.com

V8 gas guzzling Independent Newspaper journalists say it's not all eco down the African cobalt mines

https://www.independent.co.uk/climate-change/news/phone-electric-vehicle-congo-cobalt-mine-b2277665.html

More depreciation ?. The lap record goes to ...

The 10 fastest-depreciating electric cars

Choosing an electric car can slash your running costs, but some models will still make you feel the pinch because of how much value they lose – these are the worst offenders

www.whatcar.com

Flat earthist and eco denialist BBC concerned about disabled access to cars ...

'My electric car dreams turned into a nightmare' - BBC News

Shae Morgon has gone back to a petrol car due to problems with the accessibility of electric vehicles.

www.bbc.co.uk

Insurance costs going turbo ??

‘The quotes were £5,000 or more’: electric vehicle owners face soaring insurance costs

Drivers who ditched petrol and diesel to help save the planet face huge price rises in premiums

www.theguardian.com

Electric car insurance costs soar 72% due to repair struggles | Autocar

Ballooning premiums and no clear answer - we detail exactly what's wrong and why it's happening

www.autocar.co.uk

 

[johnwhitfield]

You did well to only have a 20% hike in insurance this year. Our motor insurance doubled. Shopping around didn’t help it was miles cheaper than the nearest rival

The house insurance went up by over 50%. (I think)

Inflation for parts and wage inflation played a big part in the hikes. (As well as good old profiteering).

 

[Alpha1]

Unless you are wealthy enough to be in a subsidised company car scheme, you might well get burned by one of these things.

Noticed all the EV adverts everywhere ?

Guardian Newspapers (head lobby group of the oil industry):

"More than 20% of each manufacturer’s new cars sold in 2024 must be zero-emission or they will potentially face fines of £15,000 per vehicle, under the targets proposed in a government consultation this year."

UK carmakers will have to meet electric car sales targets despite Sunak U-turn

Firms call for support as government presses ahead with plan to impose minimum sales quotas in 2024

www.theguardian.com

V8 gas guzzling Independent Newspaper journalists say it's not all eco down the African cobalt mines

https://www.independent.co.uk/climate-change/news/phone-electric-vehicle-congo-cobalt-mine-b2277665.html

More depreciation ?. The lap record goes to ...

The 10 fastest-depreciating electric cars

Choosing an electric car can slash your running costs, but some models will still make you feel the pinch because of how much value they lose – these are the worst offenders

www.whatcar.com

Flat earthist and eco denialist BBC concerned about disabled access to cars ...

'My electric car dreams turned into a nightmare' - BBC News

Shae Morgon has gone back to a petrol car due to problems with the accessibility of electric vehicles.

www.bbc.co.uk

Insurance costs going turbo ??

‘The quotes were £5,000 or more’: electric vehicle owners face soaring insurance costs

Drivers who ditched petrol and diesel to help save the planet face huge price rises in premiums

www.theguardian.com

Electric car insurance costs soar 72% due to repair struggles | Autocar

Ballooning premiums and no clear answer - we detail exactly what's wrong and why it's happening

www.autocar.co.uk

What does flat earthist and eco denialist mean?..