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CENTAUR II won't boot

@Blake7 it would be useful if you clarify - is it some or all of the playfield GI string out?

Moonbus suggestion above has reminded me that I had all pf GI out based on the TRIAC Optocoupler going bad on the GI Aux Driver board (probably mounted on the BB door). The pic below is from GOLD BALL that has two of these GI flasher circuits for pf and bb (with a separate TRIAC in the cab base for each). I swapped these boards round and the problem moved with it indicating the bad MOC3011 which is the little fella in the middle of the board - easy fix!

I wonder about this GI flasher circuit - do all machines even use it in game (other than self test). GOLD BALL flashes the whole GI (pf and bb) before it ejects the Gold pinball - this is to great effect and always makes me smile.

wp_20150313_10_07_17_pro-jpg.14687
 
I only have Mr Mrs Pacman. It uses the triac to turn off the GI when you enter the maze. I guess it was Bally's way of making the game more dynamic.
 
Nice one, I'm not sure where it's used in-game for VECTOR (my other project).

Back to the problem...@Blake7 your machine "may" have a lamp next to the boards shown above which is part of the driving circuit, check the bulb works.
 
astyy said:
Nice one, I'm not sure where it's used in-game for VECTOR (my other project).

Back to the problem...@Blake7 your machine "may" have a lamp next to the boards shown above which is part of the driving circuit, check the bulb works.
Click to expand...

Indeed, my understanding is this bulb must be an incandescent bulb and cannot be an LED as the circuit is designed around the resistance of the incandescent bulb.
The resistance of LED's is not sufficient.
 
The #44 bulb is shown in the Centaur II schematic - but you know that they're not always right? GOLD BALL was released only a couple of months later and this bulb had been replaced with a couple of Resistors.

Whilst in the schematic I see that Lamp Driver board A5 SCR Q14 drives the flasher via J1 18 so check here too.

The above is based on the assumption that the whole playfield GI is out.

Enjoying this SS banter, I must get back to my VECTOR have spent enough time on EM this Summer.

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Anyone got a simple way of testing the TRIAC and driver board?

My method above only tests the GI lamp circuit by removing both the above from the equation.

How would we go about working out if the TRIAC or driver board or both are faulty?
 
astyy said:
@Blake7 it would be useful if you clarify - is it some or all of the playfield GI string out?

Moonbus suggestion above has reminded me that I had all pf GI out based on the TRIAC Optocoupler going bad on the GI Aux Driver board (probably mounted on the BB door). The pic below is from GOLD BALL that has two of these GI flasher circuits for pf and bb (with a separate TRIAC in the cab base for each). I swapped these boards round and the problem moved with it indicating the bad MOC3011 which is the little fella in the middle of the board - easy fix!

I wonder about this GI flasher circuit - do all machines even use it in game (other than self test). GOLD BALL flashes the whole GI (pf and bb) before it ejects the Gold pinball - this is to great effect and always makes me smile.

wp_20150313_10_07_17_pro-jpg.14687
Click to expand...


Hey guys I'll check what you've recommend tonight when i get gome. When you say the whole playfield GI I'm not sure what you mean by that? Here's a pic of what lights are on when playing as you can see not much. When I do the lamp test most will come on but not the bulbs inner plastics at the sides and also the stars
i65.tinypic.com_sb4shh.jpg.png
 
Blake7 said:
Hey guys I'll check what you've recommend tonight when i get gome. When you say the whole playfield GI I'm not sure what you mean by that? Here's a pic of what lights are on when playing as you can see not much. When I do the lamp test most will come on but not the bulbs inner plastics at the sides and also the stars
i65.tinypic.com_sb4shh.jpg.png
Click to expand...
P.s sorry for the poor pic I had to take a screenshot from a video I had took seeing as I'm not home
 
It looks sexy even with the lights off, ooerr.

GI is general illumination. Lights that are generally under the plastics on Bally games. They provide mood lighting for the game. The back box lighting is separate.

The lights for things like roll overs, targets and inserts is 'switched' lighting. They turn on and off to indicate game things.

It looks like your GI lights are all off.
 
Hi, Blake,

Some explanation of the terminology may be in order;

"General Illumination" is used to indicate a bunch of lamps connected in parallel as a group, which may/may not have some kind of control over them, be it a relay breaking the circuit, or triac control as with these older bally games. Centaur II is a mixed matter regarding G.I. - the playfield circuit has triac control (it flashes the playfield G.I. lamps a lot), but the coin entries and backglass G.I. aren't interrupted at all.

To complicate things further, the Bally triac G.I interrupt is driven as a feature lamp, so the controlled G.I lamps all flash, under the triac control, during the feature lamp test.

"Feature/individual/insert" lamps are, as the first two names suggest, individually controlled, either by dedicated 'transistors' (actually a similar component called an SCR) as with C II, or by using supply/return lines in a matrix, as Williams used. There may be more than one lamp on each circuit, but not more than two or three, maybe not all in the same place on the playfield or backglass, e.g. a 'Same Player Shoot Again' could have one on playfield and one on the wooden "Insert Board" behind the backglass (hence my dislike of the term 'insert lamp' in this context). The standard-issue Bally lamp driver board has 60 separate circuits, Cen. II has an additional board giving 12 extra drives, AIR. C II also has the Thumper Bumpers, and maybe slingshots, connected as feature lamps; the former are often either G.I or feature, while slingshots are usually G.I

Another quirk with C II is the 'Chamber' on the upper l/h side. Though they're poking up through the playfield, the lamps under the plastics there are feature bulbs, in left & right pairs.

Just for reference, "Flash lamps" are lamps driven from the solenoid power, and light very brightly, but in most cases can't be left on for long. C II doesn't have any of these.
 
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astyy said:
It certainly has attitude :mad: - I'd leave it that way.


The lamps are on under the slings - wouldn't that be GI?
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They go off when they are hit so guess not?!? Or at least I think they do.
 
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astyy said:
It certainly has attitude :mad: - I'd leave it that way.


The lamps are on under the slings - wouldn't that be GI?
Click to expand...

On most games the lamp(s) under slingshot plastics are G.I, but not with Centaur and C II, as I thought. The only other instance of this I recall is Junkyard - the left slingshot is the angel, alternating with the devil on the right.

Blake, the lamps in the bumpers also have that 'bad connection' effect.
 
astyy said:
Nice one, I'm not sure where it's used in-game for VECTOR (my other project).

Back to the problem...@Blake7 your machine "may" have a lamp next to the boards shown above which is part of the driving circuit, check the bulb works.
Click to expand...
Ok so just got home I've found the aux driver and the lamp next to it, the lamp is working. Is there a way to test if the aux driver is?

I've also done a tone test on the circuit that's not working to others like moonbus suggested and I'm getting a tone.
 
astyy said:
The #44 bulb is shown in the Centaur II schematic - but you know that they're not always right? GOLD BALL was released only a couple of months later and this bulb had been replaced with a couple of Resistors.

Whilst in the schematic I see that Lamp Driver board A5 SCR Q14 drives the flasher via J1 18 so check here too.

The above is based on the assumption that the whole playfield GI is out.

Enjoying this SS banter, I must get back to my VECTOR have spent enough time on EM this Summer.

View attachment 50634
Click to expand...

It turned out to be very simple, I was following your directions and all it was was the connection at j1

Thanks so much your your help again everyone and I'm sure I'll need it again before I'm done.
 
And we're all working again, I've also just changed the rubbers and I tell you what it's like a new game with the lights working and the new rubbers.

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Blake7 said:
And we're all working again, I've also just changed the rubbers and I tell you what it's like a new game with the lights working and the new rubbers.

34dh3ma.jpg
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Click to expand...

I have never seen or played one in the flesh but I love the sounds and look of these machines. Well done.
 
Moonbus said:
I have never seen or played one in the flesh but I love the sounds and look of these machines. Well done.
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Well if your ever Nottingham way your welcome to come have a play, you did basically help fix mutliple things on it from a far.
 
Hey everyone finally got the replacement coil that had burnt out and replaced Q3 and the other relevant parts on the driver board that had blown. I've still got a problem, if I do a coil test Q3 blows again even with the coil not connected and if I remove j4 from the driver board the coil still sticks on as soon as the power is turned on.
 
Have you traced the wiring from the connector all the way to the coil? sounds like there's a short to ground there somewhere.
 
kevlar said:
Have you traced the wiring from the connector all the way to the coil? sounds like there's a short to ground there somewhere.
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I was pulling j4 when I should have been pulling i2. If I pull j2 the coil doesn't stick. I'm guessing this mean it's the driver board?
 
Done some digging Q3 that blows it's self to pieces when doing the coil test is for a coil I'm The bottom of the cab. I'm not sure but it looks like this was wired the wrong way round with the connection from the driver board on the side with the line of the diode. Would this blow Q3 to pieces? Q2 which runs the sticking coil tests good so what else could make it stick?
 
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What coil did you replace ? what Mechanism ?

According to the schematic Q3 on the Sol Driver board is for the Knocker in the bottom of the cabinet.
 
I replaced the orbs targets coil. And q2 and Q3 had both gone high so we're replaced. It looks to me like the knocker coil was wired incorrectly would that make Q3 blow?
 
Also has the knocker coil got a diode on it and is the diode connected around the right way.
The schematic indicates the non banded end should be on the wire coming from the Sol Driver Board
 
Knocker was wired the wrong way round I've just switched the wires replaced Q3 and it's all good now. The orbs targets coil is still sticking and I've just replaced the transistor and the diode at q2 which controls it.
 
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