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Bell Games Saturn 2

Nice diagram. The fact that you didn't yet find SCRs for your faulty lamps I think definitely points to a bad connection. I'd suggest picking one of them and following the wiring back from the lamp socket to the driver board. Somewhere along the line will be some cruddy connection, either just a mucky lamp socket (that happens a lot, try giving the bulb a good wiggle), a bad solder joint on the connector pin on J1 / J3 on the board, bad connection inside the actual connector.
 
Hi Mark

i might have done, all the scr's i have written down the side dont have wires in them, so i will trying to do more wire re routes and testing tonight, i personally think some Donkey has put a new plug on and screwed the pin allocations up.
I have 7 lamps out that dont work and 9 scr's that are giving an output on attract mode & bulb check mode.
i have tested every bulb and holder individually with a battery and croc clips so i know all of those are good, but im also seeing a major sequence issue with some of the flash patterns.
also in play mode lamps dont light when targets are getting hit but the scores are working ( will need to check of the values are right ) so im not sure if it might be a rom issue aswell ??? could i be right ??

if so is there anyone that could recode a chip if there is one with the correct game pattern.
 
I have found this vid on youtube of the only saturn 2 i have come across,
the sound gets on your nerves a bit but the lamp sequences show a bit of weird chasing on the green accumulator in the centre and the spinner the 'U' & 'R' are the wrong way round at the top.

and this a short vid of the Saturn 2 game on the virtual pin emulator ( spent ages installing just to see the sequences )

http://s23.photobucket.com/user/abs...85 Saturn 2 Pinball Machine/IMG_3995.mp4.html
 
Ok strange thing is happening tonight.... Playing a 4 player game against the other half as can't be bothered to test it tonight, all players scores are fine apart from play 2. Starts adding right but soon as ball drops its putting 1-2 million on the readout . Any ideas ?


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Can you grab a quick picture or vid?

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It looks like soon as you get the 5th digit - 10,00 (0) as my last 0 is an add on, soon as the it hits that '1' or more it mimics it on the 6th if tht makes sence, so it's always reading 11----. 22----, 33---- etc


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Just the player 2 display? Try swapping the player 1 and player 2 displays around. If the problem moves to player 1, then the issue is on the display board. If the issue stays with player 2, then it's something on the MPU board. If the problem goes away, it was a mucky connector. This piece of the machine should be Bally standard and easier to get to the bottom of.
 
It did work :)

Try swapping player 1 and 2 displays over, see what happens then. Also make sure the other displays don't do it, get the glass off and cheat to get some big scores on those displays too
 
Damn I need to get the pin to the unit, having it at home is a pain to work on.... Will give it a go later today and let you know. , need to finish some pinball prints and laminate them today .....


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Yeah it looks like you have a short from digit 5 on to digit 6 for player 2. As Mark says, swapping the displays round should indicate where the fault lies.
 
Should be fixable, unless the display glass has some kind of internal short. It basically looks like there is a short between the "display digit enables" of those 2 digits on that display. The MPU constantly spins through all the displays on the board, one digit at a time. It enables a specific display, for a specific digit in the display and then sends what number to display there. Then it switches it back off and moves to the next. It all happens so fast that you don't notice the on/off happening.

For your display, there is that big J1 connector running along the board. Pin 8 is used by the MPU for controlling the 10,000 digit and pin 9 for the 100,000 (or with your dummy 0 it's the 100,000 and million which is your problem). I'd start by checking that those 2 pins are not shorted together somehow under the board. If you have a DMM, check to see if there is continuity between those 2 pins, because there shouldn't be. Have a look around the soldering on those pins to check nothing got joined together, also around Q5, Q6, Q11 and Q12 with the resistors around them. On the bottom of the display glass itself are a whole bunch of connecting wires. Check nothing is shorting out around pins 31,33,37,39.

I had a similar problem on my Banzai Run and a found a fleck of silver foil had settled on the display glass wires. But on any of the connections mentioned it could be a blob of solder bridging 2 tracks or pins, something like that.

Good luck (some more!)
Mark
 
Sorted cheers dude, I just resolderd the pins and it all works !!!! Must have had a rogue bridge in there somewhere, I do have a continuity half way down the display pins there is a track that loops from 14 to 16 but if I check between 15 and either if them I get a tone is that normal ?


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Good that the display is fixed. I had a display with an internal short once, but I just left it in the player 4 position which was almost never used.

It's always worth resoldering old connector pins, if often fixes issues. I'd suggest resoldering the pins for all the connectors on the 2 lamp driver boards if you haven't already - you might well find it waking up some of your dead lamps....

Mark
 
Well in between other things today I managed to resolder all the aux lamp board today I have got all of the lamps working on that puppy, finding some nasties in the plug wiring too it was hanging on but only by the wire shielding lol

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1388953766.282009.jpg

So then .... As i was a bit board I tried some new tech to brighten up the PF for a bit ...

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1388953847.832139.jpg
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1388953866.798949.jpg
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1388953911.915993.jpg

Only a temp fix just trying it out really




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Ok, random question. It's been fine alday playing it on on and off, opening coins door and putting 10-20 credits etc with the flick switch as always, now just ran out of credits and went in to drop some more on it and nothing happening ... I haven't touched a single thing since the last time ... Any ideas ?


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Nice work. So all working now then?

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So, let's put this one to bed. I visited Jim today and after three hours of head scratching, we have all the lamps working correctly. Two SCRs were short on the main driver - that bit was easy. Next many lamps come on at the wrong times. The bell installed connectors to the main lamp driver are two pieces, all three were stacked incorrectly. Putting them back on got us a bit further and all lamps flash on and off in test mode.But now there are some lamps on permanently in gameplay that should be off , and the spinner progresses the drop target awards, instead of the green column. Some lights in the grid not coming in either, so something is crapped up somewhere. Tried to analyse the faulty lights against the lamp decoders layout, but no obvious pattern. Removed the aux lamp board and plugged connector directly to lamp board, and bad lamps now all work in correct order, without aux board connected. Considered that an address or data wire was incorrectly positioned , but in examination concluded that the wire sequence in that connector was completely different to the original. Stripped all the pins out of the connector and reinserted in a more logical way. (Remember there are no circuit diagrams to help) . Powered it up , and success. Job done.
 
MASSIVE THANK YOU to Andy ( pinball mania ) for sorting it out.... i thought i was going crazy and now i know that i wasn't....... the wires were all over the place in the sockets, i knew it didnt look right....

the light effects and some sequences were crazy though !

But having the knowledge that Andy has just proves a simple visit from him and a few ... hours can save you hours, day, weeks ......getting frustrated and wanting to give up !!!

Dont give up !!! JUST CALL ANDY ! the pinball emergency service
 
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