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Workshop (Garage) insulation

Paul

Paul

Staff member
Joined
Oct 5, 2012
Messages
11,581
Location
South Wales
Alias
Toibs
Hi all,

So looking for real-life experiences on using Garages for workshops (Inspired by another thread raised this morning).
It wont be used as a gamesroom, since they games would be living elsewhere :)

My Garage is detached from the house - Up and over door - No other entrances. Left and rear walls are double skinned, Right wall is single skinned, however is connected to next door's garage.

Looking to make it a little warmer (to be fair, it rarely gets below 3C in there, however 3C is too cold to work for an aging old man like myself :)

Garage.jpg

Not looking to spend £££ on it - Just to make it warmer and dryer in there. No pins or games will be Stored long term in there... Just whilst fixing etc short term - whilst not used every day, it will be in Regular use.
Roof is felted and tiled - so the first thing i am looking to do is to is to add some insulation to the roofspace directly behind..... Basic insulation between the rafters... something like rockwool RWA45 50mm batons whihch are relatively cheap and cheerful all things considered....

Garage1.jpg


I am also looking to replace the door - Up and over works fine, however no insulation whatsoever, and lots of gaps. This needs to be operational as it's the only enterance in and out.
Strongly considering a roller shutter door, however looking at specifics around Slat size... 55mm slats are insulated to 8mm, 77mm slats are insulated to 14mm.
Costs are looking around £1100 for 55mm slat size - £1450 for 77 m Slat size....

1642592698359.png

Anyone got experience of the different sizes and if the extra thickness is worth the extra £350 cost??

Other than this - anyone have any thoughts on little things that can be done to keep things warm and dry?

Cheers
Paul
 
I boarded the rafters, 19mm above then 6mm below (as the seen ceiling) then insulated between them. I lined the inner walls with 25mm polystyrene backed plasterboard (50mm would be better but I couldn't lose the space). Carpet tiled the floor. MIne is mostly a single brick garage. It gets to about 5deg if I don't heat it.
Largest difference seemed to be insulating the floor with carpet as it is a massive heat sink.
 
I think its a decent plan, there's always a debate to be had between insulating the roof directly and boarding out and insulating the celling leaving the roof space unheated.
The second way is more effort, but minimising the area to be heated equals lower bills and when you do venture out there will warm up faster, although you are effectively sealing the area off so may need to add more ventilation.

Seeing as the outer walls are cavity, I think you would benefit from the more expensive door as that's likely to be the biggest source of heat loss once the roof is insulated.
 
Recommend getting a sectional up and over door, wish we had, the roller shutter we have similar to above, doesnt help too much. The section doors, have 40mm of insulation
 
I went with Teckentrup Swing 62 Secure Garage Doors as they offer good insulation and high security. Unfortunately with most other garage doors there is a compromise between either security or insulation i.e. very few are good at both. I also wanted to move away from up and over doors as I was losing so much space and was unable to put a pinball near the door. They are good, but start from about £3k.

20220119_133649.jpg

 
My understanding of the slat sizes for the roller doors is that the deeper thicker slats are for wider door openings, to give greater structural rigidity.
 
+1 for sectional doors if you don’t mind the low framework, the insulation is very good.

Williams/Sterns appear to JUST fit under the framework lol, DE not a chance.
 
I wouldn't bother personally. My garage has been insulated by a previous owner. No idea what the specs are. The walls are insulated and the ceiling is boarded. In the 12 months I've lived here I've discovered that there are rats or mice living behind the insulated walls and there is also a massive angry wasps nest somewhere inaccessible in the roof void. I do a bit of DIY out there with the door open. I think I'd just buy an industrial space heater if it became too cold.
 
Many thanks all for ideas and suggestions.

The ceiling space (I'll take a better pic tomorrow) is fairly recently boarded, and used as a storage space. I could board the underside and insulate in between the rafters.... thats an ide ai hadnt thought of!!

Picked up some RWA45 tonight... 28 batons for £60... enough to be able to do either of the above... will have a think about the best solution based on the above comments... thank you!!

With regards to sectional doors... I would go that route, however they are MUCH more expensive, and also take up much more headroom (Much like an up and over door, they stull require (on the whole) an overhead frame, which was one thing i was trying to get rid of...

taz turbo said:
My understanding of the slat sizes for the roller doors is that the deeper thicker slats are for wider door openings, to give greater structural rigidity.
Click to expand...

They are. Usually. However the larger slats tend to come with a proper motor instead of a fisher price one, and also more insulation. It's quite windy where i am (Basically half way up a mountain!) and whilst i'm not one to worry about having tonnes and tonnes of insulation, the minimum is the minimum as its built to a need and price... as opposed to being built for a purpose.... :)
I'm looking to make things a little more cosy here... not insulate like a house because i'm in it all the time! :)

Rob zombie said:
In the 12 months I've lived here I've discovered that there are rats or mice living behind the insulated walls and there is also a massive angry wasps nest somewhere inaccessible in the roof void.
Click to expand...

Haha indeed.. it;s not like being in a house...! Completely get that... not touching the walls as those are double skinned and effectively sealed (tho i am aware Rats etc can over time shew through brick).
I'm aware of a couple of blighters in there... however I have trapped (non-humanely - sorry!) the ones that i know of and intend to continue to do so whatever choice i pick... as whatever you do, you wont keep em out!
 
Rob zombie said:
I do a bit of DIY out there with the door open. I think I'd just buy an industrial space heater if it became too cold.
Click to expand...
Already have one :) however i'm thoughtful of the amount of gas i use that just goes straight up into the roof and then out as theres no insulation..........

Fine in the Summer. I'm in Wales... in the winter its ALWAYS raining and most of the time cold...
(In the Summer it's always raining too.. just not as hard....)
 
My workshop is not insulated and is full of jumpers and hats that I take off when I am in there.
But I never sit down in there to work on anything.
 
I have been down this one @Paul

Detached double garage, clay tile roof, cavity walls, insulated with rockwool, suspended ceiling insulated with fibreglass, uninsulated flow screed floor. About 40mm insulated 4 section hormann garage door with the faster of the 2 models of electric motor. The door was really expensive but I bought it 10 years ago and it has been brilliant. You can wirelessly connect it to a massive range of fobs, finger print readers, push buttons, fobs that fit in car cigarette lighters, pocket remotes .....

I have a battery fingerprint reader in my house so we can open the garage door from inside and we are not leaving a "key" for villains to use. I would seriously consider a door like this. The insulation, draughtfroofing, weather sealing and convenience are just wonderful. Mentally amortise the cost over 10 years. I use it every day and whenever I do, I am so pleased I spent the extra cash.

Separated by an internal wall from my garage is my similarly sized workshop. This has the same wall and ceiling insulation but rubber tile floor, wood framed double glazed window with internal metal security shutter, heavy wooden double doors.

The garage is always much better insulated and far drier than the workshop. I run a dehumidifier in the workshop but the garage does not need one which evidences how good that garage door is. The garage is always slightly warmer (though the dehumidifier evens this out).

I never heat the garage and no metallic items have corroded in there. They would corrode in the workshop without the dehumidifier.

I heat the workshop with a 3kw fan heater on a timer switch that means I can't "forget" that it is on. For faster heat you want an electric fan but gas fuelled space heater or old school 3 panel indoor gas heater - but ai find my fan heater is much smaller and does the job adequately

www.ledbulbs.co.uk

Timeguard Electronic Boost Timer Plug-in 2hr - TGBT6

The TGBT6 is a simple ‘ready to use’ solution for anything from warming up a room to regulating how long the kids spend on their games consoles. Simply press the button to increase the ON time for up to 2 hours. Features: Plug-in 2 hour boost timer 13A (3kW) loading Easy to use push button...
www.ledbulbs.co.uk www.ledbulbs.co.uk
 
DRD said:
I have been down this one @Paul

Detached double garage, clay tile roof, cavity walls, insulated with rockwool, suspended ceiling insulated with fibreglass, uninsulated flow screed floor. About 40mm insulated 4 section hormann garage door with the faster of the 2 models of electric motor. The door was really expensive but I bought it 10 years ago and it has been brilliant. You can wirelessly connect it to a massive range of fobs, finger print readers, push buttons, fobs that fit in car cigarette lighters, pocket remotes .....

I have a battery fingerprint reader in my house so we can open the garage door from inside and we are not leaving a "key" for villains to use. I would seriously consider a door like this. The insulation, draughtfroofing, weather sealing and convenience are just wonderful. Mentally amortise the cost over 10 years. I use it every day and whenever I do, I am so pleased I spent the extra cash.

Separated by an internal wall from my garage is my similarly sized workshop. This has the same wall and ceiling insulation but rubber tile floor, wood framed double glazed window with internal metal security shutter, heavy wooden double doors.

The garage is always much better insulated and far drier than the workshop. I run a dehumidifier in the workshop but the garage does not need one which evidences how good that garage door is. The garage is always slightly warmer (though the dehumidifier evens this out).

I never heat the garage and no metallic items have corroded in there. They would corrode in the workshop without the dehumidifier.

I heat the workshop with a 3kw fan heater on a timer switch that means I can't "forget" that it is on. For faster heat you want an electric fan but gas fuelled space heater or old school 3 panel indoor gas heater - but ai find my fan heater is much smaller and does the job adequately

www.ledbulbs.co.uk

Timeguard Electronic Boost Timer Plug-in 2hr - TGBT6

The TGBT6 is a simple ‘ready to use’ solution for anything from warming up a room to regulating how long the kids spend on their games consoles. Simply press the button to increase the ON time for up to 2 hours. Features: Plug-in 2 hour boost timer 13A (3kW) loading Easy to use push button...
www.ledbulbs.co.uk www.ledbulbs.co.uk
Click to expand...
Get a Smart plug! You can control it all from your phone wherever you are and set up multiple timers etc
 
I know that I am tediously old fashioned and that I may well be wrong.

But I think there is too much smart, web, WiFi in our lives.

I carry this surveillance device around with me all day. It surveills me and everyone else. Tracking every move, many thoughts

I don't think that garage heaters need this level of surveillance.

Good to unplug now and again
 
I am a Cyber Security Expert, I am well aware of what information they could get from a smart plug, the same information I get. When it is on and when it is off. From that, they could conclude, when a thing is on and when it is off. That isn’t at all sensitive data.

The two main threat from a smart device is that it communicates out to the internet and talks to a network you have no control over. That could open a backdoor allowing someone onto that device and my network. They could turn my device on and off, that isn’t a big impact unless it controls another security control like door access. This is a heater and unlikely to be of concern.
More likely, they could use the access to try to gain access to another system. Your bank details, bitcoin wallet information, authenticated PayPal access. Your laptop and browser are closer to that data and that is why vulnerabilities in those are big business.
Impact vs likelihood makes a smart device a low risk and it can be made lower by considering which smart devices you use and sensible network segregation if you can.
Unless you remove all connectivity to the internet and/or any devices that use the internet, you will always have a threat.
 
Sorry to add on.

There isn’t an organisation with the budget to capture and process surveillance on that level of data. They use targeted surveillance on suspects and still miss a lot of communication channels. They could not process the data about a smart device being on or off.
 
I have a double detached garage that has been converted, I did not do it but I think it was well thought through by the previous owner.

Has a false ceiling which is boarded out with insulation. The difference in temp between the main area and the roof space is massive in the summer and winter, keeping the garage warmer in winter and cooler in summer. Also all the boxes up there add to the insulation. The walls have studwork, plasterboard and insulation.

Have you thought about blocking off the garage door internally with studwork, insulation and plasterboard and adding a upvc side door (which would be cheaper). This is done in mine and works at treat. At one of my previous houses I did the same but made the internal wall removable so I could still open the garage door if I ever needed to.

I let the garage get cold now it has aircon as I can heat it up in no time at all, prior to this it took too long with convection / fan heating.
 
Calimori said:
I am a Cyber Security Expert, I am well aware of what information they could get from a smart plug, the same information I get. When it is on and when it is off. From that, they could conclude, when a thing is on and when it is off. That isn’t at all sensitive data.

The two main threat from a smart device is that it communicates out to the internet and talks to a network you have no control over. That could open a backdoor allowing someone onto that device and my network. They could turn my device on and off, that isn’t a big impact unless it controls another security control like door access. This is a heater and unlikely to be of concern.
More likely, they could use the access to try to gain access to another system. Your bank details, bitcoin wallet information, authenticated PayPal access. Your laptop and browser are closer to that data and that is why vulnerabilities in those are big business.
Impact vs likelihood makes a smart device a low risk and it can be made lower by considering which smart devices you use and sensible network segregation if you can.
Unless you remove all connectivity to the internet and/or any devices that use the internet, you will always have a threat.
Click to expand...
Agreed, if the get access and can "hack it" to turn it off an on, yes it annoying, however using a smart device as a jump point into your network thats the thing that will yield the data they are after, or indeed if the device comes with a dodgy app that you side loaded and cannot verify that the app is clean, you never know what the app is "beaming" back home. Like i just turn all that phone home crap on my private laptop off, yes i know i use windows, but only for certain things ;)
 
DRD said:
I know that I am tediously old fashioned and that I may well be wrong.

But I think there is too much smart, web, WiFi in our lives.

I carry this surveillance device around with me all day. It surveills me and everyone else. Tracking every move, many thoughts

I don't think that garage heaters need this level of surveillance.

Good to unplug now and again
Click to expand...
I'm aware of those type of concerns but actually I'm pretty sure nobody really cares too much what time I switch devices on, where I go, what type of midget porn I'm into, and I can definitely say that they're in for a whole world of disappointment if they manage to access my bank details.
 
Rob im like you, i think there are sooooooo many devices linked to the internet the chances of being targeted are slim, my parents are bombarded with email every day saying that someone has copies of them doing weird **** on the webcam and if they dont pay up they will be exposed .... not gonna lie you would have to be wayyyyyyy past midget porn to want to view if it was real :), its just such shame that them amazing thing that the internet is has just become a swamp of money and ****.... bet tim burners lee wished he had taken a cut nowadays
 
The seeker said:
Rob im like you, i think there are sooooooo many devices linked to the internet the chances of being targeted are slim, my parents are bombarded with email every day saying that someone has copies of them doing weird **** on the webcam and if they dont pay up they will be exposed .... not gonna lie you would have to be wayyyyyyy past midget porn to want to view if it was real :), its just such shame that them amazing thing that the internet is has just become a swamp of money and ****.... bet tim burners lee wished he had taken a cut nowadays
Click to expand...
Honestly mate, if my wife doesn't even take an interest in it what chances are the FBI going to want to? In some ways I'd be glad of someone stalking me. It would be like dating again.
 
So how many ppl here have there pins connected to the network?

Our new washing machine even connects to the internet, everything does these days lol but agree with the above it’s never a hacker controlling that device that is a real concern (unless garage door etc..) but it’s taking advantage of some flaw in the devices firmware and accessing your laptops etc.. but like others have said there are so many devices out here been targeted is pretty slim, is a tiny chance could happen.
 
russdx1 said:
So how many ppl here have there pins connected to the network?

Our new washing machine even connects to the internet, everything does these days lol but agree with the above it’s never a hacker controlling that device that is a real concern (unless garage door etc..) but it’s taking advantage of some flaw in the devices firmware and accessing your laptops etc.. but like others have said there are so many devices out here been targeted is pretty slim, is a tiny chance could happen.
Click to expand...
I actually don't have my pins or arcades connected to the network. There's no way I'm letting Chinese hackers play them for free. They can switch my lights on and off all they like though. Although it does set the dogs off.
 
I want to put my garage doors on a WiFi controller but not sure if it’s good idea or not.. That’s one thing I don’t want accidentally opening via bad firmware or power spike or something. I think somethings should just be left off the internet hehe.
 
russdx1 said:
I want to put my garage doors on a WiFi controller but not sure if it’s good idea or not.. That’s one thing I don’t want accidentally opening via bad firmware or power spike or something. I think somethings should just be left off the internet hehe.
Click to expand...
Honestly man, just ignore all this nonsense. Nobody is going to hack you or your super interesting garage door. They probably can't even stand pinball. They'll break in there with a crowbar and be like "WTF?!? is this old man shiiiit???!!"
 
ok so to drag this one kicking and screaming back on track..... before i get paranoid that the spy police are watching...

Have decided, rather than insulating the rafters, and all that lovely (and expensive) heat warming the void up to the roof itself, i'm going with insulating the lower ceiling. It'll keep the area i need to heat warm, and if it really troubles me then I can always do the upper levels at a later date. The Insulation batons i have are only 50mm thick, so ideal roof insulation anyhow.... however in my previous experience 50mm should be fine if i'm not living in there :)

Still toying over the roller door though. Sectional (having dig into it) is great however rather cost prohibative, Leaving roller as the only real option.

John Taylor said:
Have you thought about blocking off the garage door internally with studwork, insulation and plasterboard and adding a upvc side door (which would be cheaper).
Click to expand...

I have.... there is a possability i could add a "side door" at a later date... however I couldnt do away with the access door on the front because
1. House deeds say i'm not allowed to remove it (Well i could push to change this, however again, £££).
2. I need a good access into it to allow machines etc to get in from the driveway
 
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