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We Need to Ban the Word 'Mint'!!

Steve

Steve

Registered
Joined
Jul 21, 2011
Messages
774
Location
Maldon,Essex
I propose we ban the use of the word 'Mint' when describing pinball machines for sale!

I recently bought a machine from a forum member, and amongst his description are the following:

  • "Mint Condition"
  • "For the serious collector"
  • "Stunning example"
  • "No hacks at all on the boards"

I've only just got round to cleaning it and it's far from "mint"! I take full responsibility as I didn't see the machine before buying and took a chance that the description was fair, so it serves me right. But it would be nice for a change to get an honest description. Broken ramps, board hacks galore, wood screws driven into the playfield, wires directly soldered to boards, the list is long...

Or maybe I'm being too fussy?

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Probably glue from the battery holder before it was removed....

Seriously guys... There is a Feedback system in place here... May i suggest people use it..... it will at least "warn" others of potential rogue sellers... :(

To use...

Find the associated post in the "for sale/wanted/trade" forum. Click on the poster's icon and then click on "leave feedback". Select the correct thread (You can only select threads that both you and the seller have posted in), and fill in the other info.

Granted, it won't stop this kind of practices, and is probably little comfort, however it will make others think twice if they believe that they can misrepresent items.

Paul
 
Well I don't know about the rest of the claims but if you were really told "No hacks at all on the boards" then that seems just plain dishonest. We all have different opinions on good condition, mint condition etc etc and it's all very subjective. But to claim no boards hacks in this machine is just lying. :(
 
Hmmm, just from reading I might guess the seller's ebay name begins with R? And yes mint is supposed to be mint and is used way too often.
 
Let's just get this straight, any machine that has a Cliffys covering wear is not "mint", I am forever seeing STTNG's advertised with no PF wear and every damn one has a Cliffys over the Neutral Zone to cover just that, wear hidden by a Cliffys is still wear, rant over :mad:

+ you are correct, mint means s**t :)
 
Giving this seller the benefit of the doubt (it wasn't me, and I have no clue who it was, by the way), descriptions are completely subjective. Some people are out to screw others over, but with the best will in the world, inexperience or simply oversight can come into play in descriptions. I guess the real lesson is go look if you want to be sure.
 
My bad on this one everyone, this was a genuine mistake and was gutted myself when I seen this earlier today as this was sold months ago and apparently all was good,but understand as Steve has tore it down a few things have come to light.
For the playfield I only ever waxed the playfield a few times because it was so clean and never really dug any deeper on that side to notice the cracked ramp etc,I am shocked at the "hacks" that are there as I did have a spy at the boards.
Like I said straight away to Steve I would like to make an effort to resolve the board issues.

I am not in this to rip people off and always prefer people to come and see my machines,I lend machines to two main shows I can make (nlp and nerg) to benefit the community and had another member around at mine while he was working in the area recently so he could have his pin fix in which he actually played STTNG and would prob tell you how nice it was or is.

I believe I sell my machines at a fair price and at 2100 is still not bad for this. I chucked a spare set of backbox decals and main spare main ramp in which was not in the deal. ( I still lost money on this machine as it was originally px'd with my BDK and did not sell for the original 2.5k I needed to break even blah blah )

Thanks!
 
Things are only an issue if they don't get resolved to everyone's satisfaction, it is easy to overlook something on a pin especially if it is flipped quickly without any real game time or evaluation, I deal with people globally, some do not speak a word of English and problems can arise, things don't turn up, something is missing, something has been purchased in error because they could not read the listing, I shipped the wrong colour or whatever but the secret is to resolve it one way or another.....@ the end of the day there is nothing more valuable than a clear head.

The other positive thing here is this forum and the pinball community itself, where else would you get communication and resolve after a sale, usually it's a case of buyer beware, see you later.
 
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The point of this post was not to dig out another member, but a call for us all to be a bit more honest in our descriptions when selling?

If I want to buy a pin and it's a 500 mile round trip it would be nice to get a warts-and-all report.

I hate bodges and can't live with them so I've dropped another £500 on this machine with Phil at PH and Sean at PP.

It is a case of buyer beware but it would help if we all calmed down using terms to describe machines which are just plain wrong. I for one will now never buy a machine without seeing it first, which is a shame as I might miss out on some real good machines.
 
It is a gamble, I do it all the time and generally it works out fine although it has been a learning curve, out of the last 20 pins I have purchased I have probably viewed 2, lack of available time, logistics, hiring a van & spending a miserable day on the motorway are deterrents, I have a red mark on my index finger from elongated periods of having them crossed
 
Hi all, yes agree it is a gamble - and I think Grizz made a good point recently when buying a machine from a non enthusiast as I've had all sorts of things broken or missing, and the seller genuinely didn't know. I once bought a FS from a non enthusiast who described the playfield as "mint" but it was covered in vertical planking!! Although I was unhappy (and lost money as I sold it with an honest description soon after), I didn't complain to the seller as I honestly believe he thought it was good condition.

The way I look at it is, buying a pinball is always a gamble - even if you see it in the flesh. I certainly would not feel comfortable in someone elses house taking out every PCB to check for hacks etc. Some machines I've bought are worse than expected, some are better, I've lost money on some, made on some, but I expect it all evens out eventually.

Cheers, Mark
 
Steve my main concern is the few hacks on the board which I obviously got totally wrong and can't change that,but to say you've had to buy 3 new main ramps and a full plastic set I find a bit ridiculous. You've made the machine sound like a complete rogue scrapper. This machine for 2k or any for that matter is never going to be almost out the box which appears to be what you want.
Playfield and cab wise this thing was every bit as clean as my year or two old TF and plays every bit aswell.

I know you've said there is nothing I can do but can I at least refund you £100 on top of the decals etc that weren't part of the deal then that will mount to £200 plus which is at least something?

This mistake and thread means I am never likely to try or even could anymore sell/trade a machine on here ever again which I accept completely, but as a 'community' it may have been worth trying to contact me first before all of this?
I know I would have.
 
I appreciate the machine is 20 years old and never expected it to be "out of the box", but describing it as: "probably the nicest your likely to see in MINT condition,for the serious collector.
100% working,no hacks at all on the boards" lead me to believe it was going to be better than it actually was. If I thought the machine was "a complete rogue scrapper" I would have contacted you directly, but although there's loads of work to do to get it where I want it, it's a nice machine. The cabinet is great, decals are very good and the playfield is in great shape. I don't blame you for not noticing the broken ramps as I didn't until I started cleaning it up, and I didn't have to buy a new plastics set, there are a number of broken ones and it made sense to buy a set rather than find individual ones.

It's very kind of you to offer a rebate towards the cost of the new parts, but I'm not after any money back and that wasn't the reason for this thread. My intention was not to discredit you or any machine you may sell in the future, it was a call for us to be more honest in our descriptions so that we don't raise expectations too high.

At the start of this thread I asked the question: am I being too fussy? It appears I am.
 
I think the lesson learned or rather a lesson I have learned is to go and look at a machine in person or ask for about 20-30 hi-res photos as descriptions are usually meaningless as one man's mint, is another's man's dog! And even then it is down to experience as I can spot most cosmetic flaws a mile off but if the boards are hacked I wouldn't have a clue! And sometimes months later a friend turns up and points something out that I never knew but once pointed out, it is obvious!
 
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Agree with above post, everyone has different standards so it's all a bit of a grey area really..

This is why 90% of my pins I sell (and I sell quite a few) all go to just one or two people, generally a little under market price so they can resell them at a bit of a markup, I just can't be bothered with the grief . Most of them end up on here or the group a month or so later with a 20% or more premium! makes me smile really as if people were a little easier to sell to and at the same time I was less lazy and had more time on my hands people would be getting cheaper pins :)

I'd always avoid the word mint though, bit risky that.
 
Steve said:
It is a case of buyer beware but it would help if we all calmed down using terms to describe machines which are just plain wrong. I for one will now never buy a machine without seeing it first, which is a shame as I might miss out on some real good machines.
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+1. Buttering up or not disclosing winds me up proper too, maybe expect it on Ebay but not from sellers on here. However, hats off to Montu32 for responding and offering to see it right.

Been in same situation myself with a machine seller on here (not the ToM saga) and it's f*cking annoying.

At the start of this thread I asked the question: am I being too fussy? It appears I am.
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Nope. Not as far as I see it. Honesty is paramount (as far as is practicable) with ALL sales on here IMO, whether it hampers your sale or not.
 
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JMP said:
I reckon MINT should be classed as new, or completely refurbished to look like new.
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Good call. I'm not bitter or unhappy, and I honestly believe Montu32 didn't know about the faults when he sold it. I'm looking forward to giving it the total make-over which is what I enjoy most. (Sad but true).

Case closed!
 
All of these things can happen without people needing to fall out. Steve had a right to rant about the use of term when there was issues, Montu32 admitted his mistake and should not feel that he should not sell on the forum again. Honestly, I would buy from you Montu32 knowing that you will probably give the most accurate descriptions of machines, as we all should.
 
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