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Virtual Pinball Poss Purchase + Thoughts

It is really hard to know what you are taking about without photos.

It is pretty unlikely that VPX will run with that graphic card. I would say VP9 is a strong possibility.

On lower power systems with VPX if you get lucky and it runs - wait until you get a multiball......

Dont forget pinup player takes up resorces so stick to the normal backglass.

First thing I would be doing is fitting a GTX1050TI 4gb

WARNING DO NOT BUY ONE OF THESE:

These are FAKE but AMAZON STILL SELL THEM. The GTX1050TI was never made with a VGA on it.

I have used these before:


Good thing is those do not need a power supply feed directly to them.

This one needs a 6 pin power supply - probably better if you have it on your PSU


Do not skimp on the PSU, wattage or quality.

The 1050TI 4GB will run 1080 playfield pretty darn well.

If its using a keyboard/joystick encoder then get rid of it! The lag on some of those is awful.

The iPac encoders are fine.

I would use an external PSU to run the amp if you upgrade graphics card.
 
Cheers for replies

Yes upgrading PC rather than just the card, just not up to date with the specs - I run benchmark scores and see if the specs are a high percentage and can play the newest games / get a pass - is that enough? Looking at PC's with scores of 80%+

Good warning about fake cards - bad that Amazon still selling them

When it comes to cards - 1060, 1070, 1080 and 1660 TI graphics cards - is there much difference?

Same with the processing i5-9400F (2.9ghz) v i7-4790K (4gz)

I would have thought the 4ghz would be best, but benchmark score puts the 2.9ghz slightly better? Is that because it has 6 cores instead of 4? I was presuming it was all about the ghz
 
4Ghz should have better score on a single thread test over 2.9Ghz, but on a multithread test the 2.9 may score higher if it has more cores available.
 
Blowing my mind lol. What would your recomendations for a processor be?

i7-4790k, i5-9400f- also looking at Ryzen 3 3300x

Would a 1660 TI graphics card be ok? Or look more towards the 1050, 60, 70, 80 ranges?

Interesting also what you peeps do - PC unit I took out was pretty small, so could get it out without removing the wood support across the middle. Desktops PC's now are pretty big so could not get it in without taking that middle wood support out - then fixing it back afterwards? Do you all put the PC in as is, or strip it and put the components on a piece of wood in separate parts (saw some YouTube clips doing this with a cool slide draw) For ease it's probably put the PC on the floor lol
 
I've built one 4k/HD/HD rig, and run a 1060 on it. Struggled a little occasionally but worked.
I've also built 2, 2 screen 27" tabletop ones for family, with 1xHD and 1 x old 4:3 monitor and those run fine on 1030 and above.
VPW are chucking out some resource heavy tables these days, and the latest VPX 1.8 renders differently (evidently). So as ever, its a choice between going for the best you can afford, or maybe something a bit less, on the understanding you get it going well but cost effectively, and then decide if you love it enough to spend more later.

iPAC encoders are fine, but if you really want to replace once and for all, and you can stretch to it - KL25Z (Pinscape) controller. This is going to allow nudging, night modes (for later) and analogue plunger (not that expensive addition) and for a few pounds more, adding button lighting / 'toys' later.
You can do it piecemeal, or look at arnoz valley's shop. Not the cheapest, but just works, plug and play.

My main rig is a little underpowered CPUwiise - I think it's a i7-7700k. The others are i5-45xx

Few photos - showing main rig and the learnings that made the tabletops simpler (although main rig has more stuff in). Please don't judge the wiring :)

Hope this helps :)
 

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Good info

Just been messing around with an older PC I have. I plugged in the cable that is wired to the on/off button under the table. But would not work - wonder why?

I tested PC and switches on and off manually when normal wires plugged in. When removed and replaced with the cable port that goes to the Front Panel - dead. No lights, no power - nothing.

Tested again on the unit the machine came with and works fine on there - but not on my own PC?

Pics below of the power on/off cable underneath the cab and where it plugs into (and works) on the PC that it came with. However won't work on my own PC when I remove the same plug and insert this one?

Made sure I am removing the right one as it will not power on when removed but powes back on ok when plugged back in - but when this cable added - nothing
 

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Dont think they are standard connectors, the pins wired for the power switch may not match what is on the motherboard on your other PC.
 
Makes sense - was hoping would be plug and play into new setup - no wiring lol. I will wait until I get a new PC before I go down that avenue further
 
Just your opinions please.

Would you consider changing whole PC as pretty naff (Card 710 and i5-2400)

Or just change CPU to an i7-3770 (believe this is the max it can be changed to) and update graphics card? May cost £100 in total rather than a whole new setup

Just unsure if it would have any problems by doing this? From a few searches I can see need to check if BIOS needs updating - would this be a problem - any other implications?

Or just upgrade whole new PC?

Thoughts appreciated

I just want to get started asap on setting up the tables which I dotn think I will have a problem with
 
If you start attempting to upgrade CPU and/or graphics card, you'll probably then find that the PSU wants increasing, or the motherboard is restricting the performance of the new bits you've bought. Or the memory is slow...

Last one I did was a price conscious one for a friend. I got a used mini tower from Facebook marketplace. Something being cast off because it doesn't run Call of Duty on ultra settings.
Here's the first one that pops up near you. Might be too big for internal install - but an example...

1696407415845.png
 
Yeah the install was worrying me - I think it would fit, but would need to mess around taking out wood, screws across the middle that supports the main playfield monitor - whereas the one that was in was quite thin and I can get it in and out easily enough. I suppose it's not a big task - other plus point though not changing was that FPanel power switch works fine on the old setup too

All things considered probably best to get a new PC and spend the money - then worry about fitting it in and doing the power button connector - I am hoping that is not a massive thing as I am no way skilled in this - setting up the emulators I think I will be fine with
 
Fiery Phoenix said:
Would a 1660 TI graphics card be ok? Or look more towards the 1050, 60, 70, 80 ranges?
Click to expand...

Yeah it will do most VP, it will do latest PinballFX running UEngine but maybe just look at it this way and the old classic "buy cheap buy twice".

Do you want to cover yourself for a future simulator, ray tracing? You need an RTX for ray tracing and I'll be honest that pinballFX is pretty dire regardless of having ray tracing turned on, it is better on the lights though and really static without it.

Visual Pinball is pre rendered so it will never take much, if someone loads their tables with high count primitives and very big textures then it's going to use more VRAM.

I stopped playing PinballFX because I can't get past the pink lighting. You won't see that in a cabinet but on a desktop it's nasty and they're not getting anymore money off me until they either remove it or start adding lighting options.

Very lazy it will take them less than a day to add some sliders for lighting and colour. Quantity over quality as far as they're concerned. They have a bog standard casino room with Unreal chairs direct from Unreal assets.

1696411129769.png

After they brought out whirlwind or Earthshaker then that's even worse.

Edit: Another thing to note is they have announced (leaked) a 5090 just this week so you can hold off those lower end, mid range will start to fall.

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Managed to move that big piece of word so fitting in a PC wont be a grind now. Was going to test my current card in the old PC that was in the cab, but would not fin in where the display ports are - too long.

So decided, new / upgraded PC.

Think will be ok doing most parts but shoult up for help with that power button. one good thing is that is has it installed already and was wired up previously to old PC (and worked) so hopefully part way there
 
While we're on the subject Stern needs to start issuing take downs at some point and get a firm like Zen to create virtual and start to bring some revenue in from cab leech.

Sorry if that annoys you and I'm some sort of party pooper for your leech mentality but they're taking the mickey.

When they hacked TPA ghostbusters that was taken down by TPA.

There's a golden rule, a gentlemen's agreement with Gary on VPF recreating with a 3 year off the production line which most people adhere to and you won't get fairer than that. This is the only reason other sites became popular because they bypass this agreement.

The codes going to be awful here and not emulated but still the art is enough for a game on the line and also the 60th.

1696416811191.png
 
dave said:
While we're on the subject Stern needs to start issuing take downs at some point and get a firm like Zen to create virtual and start to bring some revenue in from cab leech.

Sorry if that annoys you and I'm some sort of party pooper for your leech mentality but they're taking the mickey.

When they hacked TPA ghostbusters that was taken down by TPA.

There's a golden rule, a gentlemen's agreement with Gary on VPF recreating with a 3 year off the production line which most people adhere to and you won't get fairer than that. This is the only reason other sites became popular because they bypass this agreement.

The codes going to be awful here and not emulated but still the art is enough for a game on the line and also the 60th.

View attachment 233651
Click to expand...
Those Bond ones aren't really playable, there's no code. Virtual pinball helps sales of real machines more than it hurts it imo. A lot of people start with a vpin and then start buying real machines even though they had no intentions of owning a real machine before
 
Jib said:
Those Bond ones aren't really playable, there's no code. Virtual pinball helps sales of real machines more than it hurts it imo. A lot of people start with a vpin and then start buying real machines even though they had no intentions of owning a real machine before
Click to expand...

No. Most can't afford one hence the reason they go virtual for hundreds and not a single game. I think that's a huge misconception and an excuse. Like you say you won't be playing that 007 and thinking oh wow I need to buy this.

Stern are missing out on revenue here with many on the virtual path, they did it with TPA but the physics were that bad there it was unplayable.

I have no doubt Zen have been chasing Stern titles anyway especially the Whitestar / SAM / Spike era dmd games.
 
I doubt Stern would be bothered once they stop selling the original machine, until they Vault it of course. It would likely more be the IP owners of the Theme themselves who would issue the takedown.
 
Fantazia2 said:
I doubt Stern would be bothered once they stop selling the original machine, until they Vault it of course. It would likely more be the IP owners of the Theme themselves who would issue the takedown.
Click to expand...

No they probably won't but that's what the gentleman's rule is for being 3 years off the line. Easy to stick to but people just cant help themselves.

TPA did issue them though on Ghostbusters which pretty much killed a site with a click of a finger.
 
dave said:
No they probably won't but that's what the gentleman's rule is for being 3 years off the line. Easy to stick to but people just cant help themselves.

TPA did issue them though on Ghostbusters which pretty much killed a site with a click of a finger.
Click to expand...

Probably because they still have the rights to sell it, and also wasnt it a hacked version of their software and not an original creation in VPX?
 
Fantazia2 said:
Probably because they still have the rights to sell it, and also wasnt it a hacked version of their software and not an original creation in VPX?
Click to expand...

Hacked it for the DMD because spikes not emulated in PinMame. I have no idea if they have emulated spike at this point but I don't think so.

VPX table jacking / loading the TPA DMD and took it down very quick within days.
 
dave said:
No. Most can't afford one hence the reason they go virtual for hundreds and not a single game.
Click to expand...
Well if they can’t afford a real machine then it’s not hurting sales of real machines. Plenty of people get hooked on pinball through virtual pinball
 
Jib said:
Well if they can’t afford a real machine then it’s not hurting sales of real machines.
Click to expand...

No it won't make a blind bit of difference there and most don't.

Ops suffer from it to a certain extent. Just look at when home consoles and computers got better and you could all stay at home instead of going to arcades.

Much cheaper and easier if you can sit in your pants all day at home and just play half baked VPX recreations.
 
Ok I feel like Columbo here.... one more thing!

Identified an ok PC. Ryzen 3 3300x and 1070 GPU

Looks similar to my desktop PC. So did a test to see if it would fit in.... old PC in the cab was small, more like a desktop PC you see in the office, not like one of these great big rigs you see now!

Doesn't really fit.... probably would have to take parts off it, the little legs stands for sure on the PC and it would be very tight in there.

So for those who put a PC in, do you put the whole unit in? Or take out the components and put them in a small casing (is that doable?) As I have some old PCs available I could use.

I mean if the cab is not being moved and static. Could you just have the motherboard, etc just resting inside of the cab, be it on the plywood or a metal smaller case or does it really need to be screwed in

Many thanks
 
I run mine with no case, board is screwed into standoffs which are themselves screwed into the cabinet.
PSU is attached with a couple of brackets.
 
I had a custom made jukebox from plywood up until recently as I downgraded that thing to a raspberry Pi and touchscreen.

I just mounted it to a tower case, but only the metal from the tower not the whole case. Mobo can mount to that like it would in a tower which is better than against wood for heat.
 
There is no such thing as the gentlemans agreement between Gary Stern and the vpin community.

It is more simple than that - he does not care about Vpins.

Ghostbusters indeed got removed as it was the Pinball Arcade who had its code stolen.

You wont find Spike/Spike II games as now each stern game is 8gb-16gb full of code and assets. Plus nobody has managed to emulate it! Some have claimed but no actual proof has been given to this.

You also wont find JJP being emulated as they will sue your asses!

All modern sterns have all the assets in the memory card - but none of the games like munsters/batman66/Iron Maiden use the actual code, and in my opinion - are inferior.

Lucas sent a CnD letter over Star Wars Episode 1 - so emulation of all pin2K ground to a hault. I have heard rumours that both games actually got emulated. I think it was on VP8.

Scott from Spooky gave the community the assets and permission to do a Vpin version of TNA.

Pinball Brothers/Heighway - neither of them have been emulated with original code.

ALSO on the hardware front - I do not have a problem with the PC hardware I have used in the past. An Intel i3 3.4-3.7 works fine - it is all down to the GPU.
 
Yes there is and it's been in place for over 10+ years on VPF. You won't find a written agreement or a signed contract which is why I call it that.

If you were part that of that community and not just a leech then you would know this but people just couldn't live with that and a great way to bring traffic to your site (VPU being one of them) was to recreate games that weren't permitted on VPF.

You don't need to emulate JJP it's linux, you only need a controller to send.

TNA didn't need to be remade you can just run that through python. BOP 2.0 & TBL just needs a "special" controller.

www.vpforums.org

The Virtual Pinball Forums

Uploading/Hosting Guidelines - Allowed/Disallowed List - posted in Site News & Announcements: Hi everyone! I know its been a long time coming! Here are the Upload and hosting guidelines for our community*. Some lists are whats allowed, some whats not allowed, so please note the difference ...
www.vpforums.org www.vpforums.org

When I replied and said give me the code I got no answer :)

1696585151358.png
 
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Cheers for replies....nobody seems to use gaming laptops for these setups? Any reason? My understanding was that some of these are pretty powerful and can handle a lot thrown at them

Make me think now of not all about the CPU do I need to get something that big like my own desktop PC, or just something slightly better with a vastly improved GPU over the GT 710

Looking at the Mobo in it (I'm not very tech savvy) it does not look like it would fit my present GPU in it for example, it's as long as the actual base unit
 
I expect there is someone out there running a laptop. You can VP on a potato if you wind it down.
 
Just an update and quick ask for help

Got a new PC and games play really good now - just hooked up the old SSD card to the new PC and boots straight into Pinball X / Joy2Key, all flippers work, etc - so good news. Played around with it a bit more, got the backglasses and DMD showing on Pinball FX 2 & 3. Needs tidy up on media packs, etc and although I have Pup Videos working, all over the place with the resolutions, etc - but I can figure that out

Request for help is about powering on the PC direct from the button which was already under the cab. Had a read up and I think i know what to do

www.manualslib.com

System Panel Connector - Asus STRIX B250F GAMING User Manual [Page 32]

Asus STRIX B250F GAMING Manual Online: System Panel Connector. (20-5 pin PANEL) This connector supports several chassis-mounted functions. strix b250F GAMING STRIX B250F GAMING System panel connector • System power LED (2-pin or 3-1 pin PLED) The 2-pin or 3-1 pin connector is for the...
www.manualslib.com www.manualslib.com

Above is the manual for my mobo. FPANEL bottom right. At the moment plugged in are 3 x double sockets for HDD_LED, PWR_SR & RESET

I plugged them out to test and back in, so know where they go corresponding to that pic in the manual. I also did not plug in the RESET socket and still powers up and down ok

So basically thinking just need 4 x wires to go into the + & - pins for HDD_LED & PWR_SR. The cable attached to the button under the cab presently has 6 wires of various colours - can I just pull the wires out of this (not sure how to be fair - do I push them out from the top with a pin?) and put them into the corresponding ports where it willplug into the FPANEL fow PWR & HDD? Are the colours important - or can use any?

Or do I buy this splitter - looks like you plug that in, then plug your normal connector into it, but as splits into 2 connect that up with the wires???



Apologies for the question but nearly there!
 

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