Underlying issue(s)

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pinballparadise

Hi Guys,



We (pinballparadise) seem to of upset YET another pinball fan.



..Please explain your issues.



1. Not happy with our prices? So be it. We are unable to fulfil everyone's dream of owning a table. As I've said many a times before. If you're genuinely interested you are more than welcome to see our set-up. We do not sell rubbish... On the off chance we do buy a machine that requires work that machine in question gets the full works.



Thanks
 

jonathan

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I dont so much have an issue with your business, more your general attitude and abuse. I have spoken with you on ebay, here, ukpinball and RGP over the past year and each time you have started to personally abuse me with a variety of profanities and playground abuse. The latest being asking to see a picture of my penis because you think your's is bigger :confused:
 
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pinballparadise

...I suppose over time you (myself in this instance) get a little bit annoyed of time wasters, people complaining (none buyers) etc



Nature of the beast I suppose.



Again what is that issue?



If we buy cheap & sell at a profit - What is wrong in that? Ironic how the hits on our website have jumped up ten fold, yet most if not all of you moaners have missed & I quote "We may not be the cheapest in the short term but in the long term your investment will provide many hours of frantic fun and your pinball can only increase in value as machines become rarer and desirable."



We openly admit that on our HOMEPAGE..



Many of you may not agree with our prices (so be it/each to their own) but to wine & moan about like a spoilt child, well is just childish.



Yes, i'm blunt. Yes, I will say it how it is. Maybe that will change with age. :)



Deeply sorry.



Jonathan, Jonathan.. I'll happily post screen shots of our conversation which would prove that I did NOT ask for a "photo". I for one do not lie especially when I've FACT(s) to back it up. :)



I suggest you remove that comment.
 

jonathan

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You seem to be missing the point. My issue isnt with your business, its with your attitude and abuse to anyone that dares disagree with you.



Feel free to post that screen shot btw. Here's your 2 messages . . .



My dick is bigger than yours.. Grow up.



Point(s) being?



.. for the record, son. I'd happily put ours against yours any day.



mail@pinballparadise.co.uk (i'll await photos)



Followed by . . .



..My inbox hasn't received the photos. I'm interested to see them. Don't be shy.



So I guess you do lie? Strange man that you are
 
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pinballparadise

The photos were reffering to your White Water machine. Then again you knew that!



Head meet brick all. It's true.. You cannot teach common sense.



:)
 

jonathan

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Eh? Well it certainly didn't read like that to me!



Anyhoo, once again you have managed to make a complete show of yourself within minutes of your first post on here. Just like on pinside the other week.



Unfortunately for you the UK Pinball scene is relatively small and you have managed to alienate a large chunk of them with your nobbishness. Good luck with that business of yours. Great advertising this is.
 

wayne g

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i must admit i had hoped that pinballparadise would have left this site alone after seeing all the arguements elsewhere on the various pinball sites and groups on the web.

i truly hope the mods will watch your posts and act appropriately when the inevitible arguements start.
 

Michael Decker

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To be fair, much of the argument seems to be fed by people unhappy with his pricing and preparation - the man has a right to defend his business. It doesn't help when other posters pile in with their opinions when they have zero direct experience of the man's products.



And, to be even fairer, only someone obtuse would conclude from the exchange above that the photo contest referred to dickpics; the clue is in the word 'ours' rather than 'mine'! Why stir up trouble and prolong the argument, then complain that it's the *other* guy that's arguing and should be banned??!! Particularly when, in this thread at least, there is only one side throwing playground names and insults around.



Just give it a rest, let the guy's business succeed or fail on its merits, and get on with your life..... simple.



PS - would be nice to see pics of both of your Whitewaters?



Michael Decker

...................

Live Clean, Think Clean

Shoot Clean Pinball
 

wayne g

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Michael Decker' date=' post: 1676467 said:
To be fair, much of the argument seems to be fed by people unhappy with his pricing and preparation - the man has a right to defend his business. It doesn't help when other posters pile in with their opinions when they have zero direct experience of the man's products.



not sure if im one of the 'other posters'?

:eek:

to be fair michael if i am ;

i may not have had experience of him as a customer but i have read enough of his rants to not want them here.

i have seen his aggressive and harsh responses elsewhere and feel from what i have read and the photo's listings that i have seen he is out of order more often than not.

i hope you don't take my response personally as i have no beef with yourself in any way shape or form.

 

Michael Decker

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No offence taken - and I really, really don't want to get stuck in this thread - but I just don't think anyone benefits from twisting the tail of the tiger; it just annoys him, and exchanges get more and more heated. He seems to have interesting points of view from time to time, and only rants when people wind him up - so don't!



Let him get on with his business - it'll succeed or fail on its merits irrespective of whether you and 30 other posters spend the next couple of months arguing with him ad infinitum....
 

jonathan

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I haven't called for him to be banned. If I could be bothered to dig up old ebay messages he sent me you would understand he isn't an innocent guy trying to defend his business but actually quite a nasty piece of work who has done his best to upset people on every pinball forum both in the UK and the USA. For such a big business man he was conspicuous by his absence last weekend?
 

Michael Decker

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If you stop arguing with him then this thread would die (assuming no-one else felt the need to slag him and his business off). Can you see the sense of that approach?



And thanks but no I don't want to see old eBay messages between the two of you.
 

jonathan

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I could. Or you could just stop reading it my obtuseness offends you?



He also seems quite capable of sticking up for himself.
 

Michael Decker

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Look - you can't whine about the bloke being argumentative and insulting when *you're* the guilty party in this thread. Why don't you simply get up the bottle to go up to Blackpool and argue face to face - or go and compare winkies or Whitewaters or whatevers.



You've admitted that you've argued with him on RGP, UKPinball, eBay and now here - are you simply following him around from forum to forum while hiding behind your keyboard? Do us all a favour and pick up the phone to him and sort out whatever your problem is.......
 

jonathan

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I'll be at Blackpool. I've got no desire to hunt him out but I'll have a chat if he wants to.



There are many, many people who have had the same trouble with him over the past few months, I'm probably just a little more stubborn than most and give as good as I get when he tries his poor attempt at bullyboy tactics.



Here's another 7 or 8 people who also agree with me from less than 2 weeks ago.



http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/ukpinball/message/100219



and then theres his shill bidding



http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/ukpinball/message/94564



and then



http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/ukpinball/message/90750



and then



http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/ukpinball/message/87034



I'd link to the thread on Pinside but it got deleted because they all got that sick of him.



You appear to be in the minority here Michael. I'll give it a rest now as I feel I've made my point. It would be a shame for him to spoil what is shaping up to be quite a nice new forum.
 

jonathan

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Michael Decker' date=' post: 1676479 said:
'I'll give it a rest now'



Thanks. From the majority.



Are you andy in disguise? You don't speak for the majority. Will you be at Blackpool?
 

highjon

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One underlying issue, as Jonathan has pointed out, is blatant shill bidding your own machines on ebay Mr Pinballparadise.

I specifically refer to the Gottlieb Spiderman which was on ebay back in March, shilled from £305 to £750. Funny how it never left your shop, no feedback was sent or recieved. Now you appear to have it on ebay again at £800,(thought you had sold it?) when you couldnt get £310 last time.

ps - its a £300 -400 machine fyi

John
 

Paul

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What amuses me is that PP seem to start a thread on here moaning about them having upset someone else, and then complaining when others get on his back. Also interesting to note that this has happened other places too.



That, my friends, is what is known as trolling i.e. purposely posting to solicit a reaction.



Whilst I haven't a problem with this on here, what I will have a problem with is personal insults. This wont be tolerated, simple and straightforward.
 

Michael Decker

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To be fair, it seems to me that he joined this board to contribute to this thread (titled 'Pinball paradise at it again on pinside.com') which appears designed to throw petrol on the fire http://www.pinballinfo.com/forums/threads/pinball-paradise-at-it-again-on-pinside-com.308817/ His response seemed somewhat reasonable considering the context; if it were my business being slagged off I'd be injuncting ISP's by now (and at the very least be demanding you pull what appear to be actionable comments that appear to be hearsay). You might consider removing the original thread and this one before it gets even more out of hand?
 

Replay

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I think to gain fair perspective on this issue, the pinside postings need to have been read. What was said, was way out of order. It was out of line to slander americans. I was not going to get involved but I do not consider PP 's postings to be reasonable.
 
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pinballparadise

wayne g' date=' post: 1676465 said:
i must admit i had hoped that pinballparadise would have left this site alone after seeing all the arguements elsewhere on the various pinball sites and groups on the web.

i truly hope the mods will watch your posts and act appropriately when the inevitible arguements start.



We'll leave the admin/mods to decide.
 
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pinballparadise

Paul' date=' post: 1676496 said:
What amuses me is that PP seem to start a thread on here moaning about them having upset someone else, and then complaining when others get on his back. Also interesting to note that this has happened other places too.



That, my friends, is what is known as trolling i.e. purposely posting to solicit a reaction.



Whilst I haven't a problem with this on here, what I will have a problem with is personal insults. This wont be tolerated, simple and straightforward.

Understandable.
 

Michael Decker

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Replay' date=' post: 1676502 said:
I think to gain fair perspective on this issue, the pinside postings need to have been read. What was said, was way out of order. It was out of line to slander americans. I was not going to get involved but I do not consider PP's postings to be reasonable.



I disagree - what happened on that board was on *that* board, and was rightly pulled. There's no excuse for spreading it to yet another forum, particularly when one of the antagonists claims to have argued it on eBay, RGP, UKPinball and here. I'm fine with people complaining about other people when they have direct experience of being ripped off or whatever, but otherwise it's just tittle-tattle and hearsay....
 
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pinballparadise

highjon' date=' post: 1676489 said:
One underlying issue, as Jonathan has pointed out, is blatant shill bidding your own machines on ebay Mr Pinballparadise.

I specifically refer to the Gottlieb Spiderman which was on ebay back in March, shilled from £305 to £750. Funny how it never left your shop, no feedback was sent or recieved. Now you appear to have it on ebay again at £800,(thought you had sold it?) when you couldnt get £310 last time.

ps - its a £300 -400 machine fyi

John



FYI.. The winner of Spiderman never came & picked it up. I sent a number of emails (10 plus) requesting he/she pick up the item he/she won. No replies, no phone calls.. NOTHING.. He was caught by ebay & Police for using stolen credit card details.



:)



Next.. I'll happily answer all your questions.



For the record if & when I/we do anything wrong on ebay which is against T&C's i'm sure ebay & paypal will be on my back.. Until then, do not let it worry you.



They make the rules, not you. :)
 
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pinballparadise

Michael Decker' date=' post: 1676477 said:
Look - you can't whine about the bloke being argumentative and insulting when *you're* the guilty party in this thread. Why don't you simply get up the bottle to go up to Blackpool and argue face to face - or go and compare winkies or Whitewaters or whatevers.



You've admitted that you've argued with him on RGP, UKPinball, eBay and now here - are you simply following him around from forum to forum while hiding behind your keyboard? Do us all a favour and pick up the phone to him and sort out whatever your problem is.......



My email & mobile number is all over our website.. We are Blackpool based too.



:)
 
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pinballparadise

Michael Decker' date=' post: 1676469 said:
No offence taken - and I really, really don't want to get stuck in this thread - but I just don't think anyone benefits from twisting the tail of the tiger; it just annoys him, and exchanges get more and more heated. He seems to have interesting points of view from time to time, and only rants when people wind him up - so don't!



Let him get on with his business - it'll succeed or fail on its merits irrespective of whether you and 30 other posters spend the next couple of months arguing with him ad infinitum....



Granted, if we do fail (this wont happen) Our tables will be cheap.. Step right up, guys.



Then you will ALL be happy.



:)
 
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