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TNA ground earth fault

Mfresh

Mfresh

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Joined
Oct 7, 2012
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2,215
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Marlow on Thames, Bucks
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Paul
My TNA has a ground earth fault (according to my electrician) which is causing the leccy to trip when I switch the machine on. Any hints on what to do/look for or how to go about diagnosing the problem and fixing it?

Any help gratefully received.
 
Does it trip every time?

My TWD can trip the Pinshed power at the distribution board becuase the amps it draws at switch-on is quite high, and that spike can cause trips, my mate (an electrician) changed the trip switch on the DB in the house to a higher ampage and it no longer trips back to the house which it was doing prior to this.
 
putting in a bigger fuse won't help with an earthing issue though.

might be worth getting a PAT tester to try and debug it - Would be worth talking to Mike Parkins or Bob from Pinballtoys.
 
A PAT tester won't debug, it will pass or fail, you want a megger for tracing the ground fault if there is one... my point was to ask if there is actually a ground fault, or if it is just a draw issue.
 
Probably not relevant but my Creech used to do this half the time. Fitted a varistor on the line filter and problem solved. So yeah, a draw issue on that occasion
 
very often line filter which in a lot of pinballs is before the mains switch so permanently powered.
so if it trips the house electrics when game switched off then you most likely need a new filter.
if not unplug the mains cable and check for damage to cables insulation etc
if you recently moved it you may have trapped a wire when lifting the backbox upright, seen that several times when a wire trapped and shorted to ground
 
Definitely a grounding issue according to my sparky who is here now. I'll investigate the mains cable and trapped wires...
 
Does it trip the rcd? Then I’d suspect a ground fault ( earth leakage )

Or does it trip the circuit breaker for the ring main in which case it’s more likely an overly sensitive breaker to the inrush current.
 
Have you tried a different kettle cord?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
Tbh I don’t know the system. But with anything break it down into small parts. Unplug whatever the mains input goes to first. Plug it in. Does it trip? No, then add in the next bit. Whatever you last connect that causes a trip is your problem.
 
There are 2 switching power supplies in the cab towards the back. I’d start there. Remove Individually and test on the bench. Do they cause the fault or not?

I don’t remember seeing a line filter in the one i had.

DF12A3AB-3F8B-4E1E-B77A-245708FC05C3.jpeg
 
Is this the same issue discussed recently regarding Data East and tripping 16a RCDs?

How many pins in one plug socket?

So I'm about to acquire my 5th Machine. I've done a bunch of reorganising, and they are now in one line. The all have easy access to one double socket (with extensions) There are other sockets but it would be a hassle getting cables from them to the machines. Is it reasonable to use all 5...
www.pinballinfo.com
 
I'd suspect one of those 2 power supplies is the culprit. Also remember that earth leakage tripping out the breaker could be caused by the cumulative effect of more than one device leaking current to earth. it could be that the TNA is leaking an amount that is normally acceptable, but when added to another device, is causing the breaker to trip out. Only way to figure that out is with electrician with an earth current leakage meter (Maybe you've already had that checked? - if so, and only issue is the TNA, then at least you have it narrowed down to that one machine).
 
Fair point unplug for e.g. fridge freezer then retry if the leccy gone,pins more important anyway😀
 
You should always rate the fuse for the cable, if you have a surge problem you would want to go from a type b breaker to a type c which will allow a higher surge without tripping.
James said:
Does it trip every time?

My TWD can trip the Pinshed power at the distribution board becuase the amps it draws at switch-on is quite high, and that spike can cause trips, my mate (an electrician) changed the trip switch on the DB in the house to a higher ampage and it no longer trips back to the house which it was doing prior to this.
Click to expand...

You should always rate the fuse for the cable, if you have a surge problem you would want to go from a type b mcb (normal) to a type c mcb which will allow a higher surge without tripping. Maybe your fuse rating was lower than the cable rating.
Don’t want people thinking you can just put higher rated fuses in, overloaded cables can cause fires.
 
Well I started at the hot end as @pinballmania suggested by changing the mains lead, and the problem seems to have disappeared - 11 machines (and the fridge) running at the same time and switching on TNA no longer triggers the RCD.

But, and here's the weird bit, the sparky tested the lead with some strange box and put 1000V through it and said that he could detect nothing wrong with the cord. But he said that it could be that if there is a fault in the cord it is possible that it only shows when the cord is bent at a particular angle and not how he was testing it.

Anyway, the problem seems fixed for now, so thanks for all your help and advice people.
 
Mfresh said:
But, and here's the weird bit, the sparky tested the lead with some strange box and put 1000V through it and said that he could detect nothing wrong with the cord. But he said that it could be that if there is a fault in the cord it is possible that it only shows when the cord is bent at a particular angle and not how he was testing it.
/QUOTE]
Click to expand...

That's a Megger
 
As a qualified electrician and a qualified electronics engineer - I will say most things on this list are the basic things to check.

What I would suggest you do is disconnect both the LiVE (line) and NEUTRAL connections from each of the power supply units and retest. You have to disconnect both live and neutral as an RCD will trip if you just disconnect the live and leave neutral connected.

Has this just started happening after being fine previously - if yes - I would say the issue is in the power supply units. Also check for tiny strands of cables touching between the N and E connections.

IF you want me to fix it, the problem is I am in brum - but if it needs a new PSU you'd have to leave it with me whilst I got a suitable one in.

Also - check for trapped cables in harnesses and make sure a wire has not been trapped in the back box.
 
ANOTHER NOTE - is RCD devices 'add up' earth leakage and wait until its 30mA. When it gets higher than that it trips out. It is possible with all the games you own that if you are switching them on together you could be having tiny leakages adding up around your home. I once wired someones house circuit to have a master switch on a music room so he could turn everything on and off with a master switch. However it would blow the RCD when he had more than 5 valve amps in circuit.
 
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