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Thunderbirds

The videos look OK - lights, sounds seem decent and the playfield looks interesting - what makes it so universally derided - or should I say a turd....
 
Only taking the videos into account, seems to me what really lets it down is the code
 
I wish the Thinderbird people well. I hope they can grow from here. But the reality is that from what I have seen, it is arguably a worse player than System 11 era games. It is certainly worse than wpc era games.

I just do not understand why noone re-engineers wpc era technology and use this as the basis for a new generation of games. The car industry has been using "old" engine designs for years. Jaguar's XK engine was used from 1949 to 1992. The rover v8 was used from 1960 to 2006.

Wpc stuff is still going, 30 years on. And for all the dough spent by jjp and stern developing fancy, unreliable electronics, with the associated risk of heavy repair bills, I don't think they have moved this industry along - other than LEDs and better sound cards
 
Its a fair point - is it a schematics licensing issue? I wonder how Rottendog et all manage that side of things?
 
Haven't seen the video.

What is wrong with it then? The above doesn't really explain it very well other than in general "it's not as good as WPC" terms (no offence).

Presumably more than just the code is wrong if it's being completely written off? Layout? Build quality? Flippers? Theme?
 
I played it a bit at EAG. Actually quite enjoyed it, seemed alright to play, seen far worse - and certainly found it more interesting than Munsters.

It felt to me like a 90s era game by an obscure manufacturer that I had somehow missed back in the day [emoji3]

Unless I was a big TB fan though I'm not sure I'd be buying this over a classic 90s pin.



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When I played it, it just felt cheap. Stripped down. In the 90s when you played a new pin they usually had something unique about them ...

TAF _ the power, thing flips
TZ _ the clock, ceramic ball, mini pf ..
MB - frankie, the auto flip main flippers
Sttng - the guns
ToM - the trunk
BSD - mist magnet thing

Most games had something. Even very basic fish tales has the fish topper

There was no love put into Thunderbirds, nothing special at all that I could see. When I played it, it felt like playing a late 80s machine really. Or a weak DE alpha numeric
 
When I played it, it just felt cheap. Stripped down. In the 90s when you played a new pin they usually had something unique about them ...

TAF _ the power, thing flips
TZ _ the clock, ceramic ball, mini pf ..
MB - frankie, the auto flip main flippers
Sttng - the guns
ToM - the trunk
BSD - mist magnet thing

Most games had something. Even very basic fish tales has the fish topper

There was no love put into Thunderbirds, nothing special at all that I could see. When I played it, it felt like playing a late 80s machine really. Or a weak DE alpha numeric
What about the multi Ball start where the ball came out of the swimming pool like TB1.
I thought that was pretty cool.
 
What is wrong with it then? The above doesn't really explain it very well other than in general "it's not as good as WPC" terms (no offence).

As far as the mechanics go, there is talk of the flippers being spongey and the ramps being flimsy. Ramps are obviously a forming issue, but as far as the flippers go, I'm sure they would just be using standard mechs, so if there is an issue, it must be boards/code?

Homepin make replacement WPC boards, so they know their way around the WPC architecture. The boards in TB though are custom HP ones. God knows how you'd go trying to find replacements for these (especially in a few years time).

As for the code, and only based on the videos, it seemed a bit rudimentary, purely from an animation, scene transition perspective. No idea on the rules.
 
Bottom line is that Williams was a proper, high volume, industrialised pinball company.

The recent crop of newcomers - spooky, BOP2, Lebowski, Heighway, JJP, JPOP ... they are all low volume garagistas that produce machines as rigorously tested, reliable and long lasting as the 1970s garagistas did in formula one. But at least the garagista pinball machines aren't killing folk like the 1970s race cars did
 
I think Neil is being harsh because he likes the theme and wants the pin to do it justice. Same way I feel about Dr Who. I think Trekkies get the best deal for theme expectation followed by Bat fans
 
That's a bit harsh Neil.

I think it’s fair. The game flips poorly with unexciting shots , the code is poor, sound irritatingly repetitive, and the artwork shocking. No reason to play it again. For the Chinese market who might not know any better it’s a great way to kill the interest in pinball quickly.

Also Mike has stitched up a bunch of folks who paid for the game in .OZ he’s no better than Andrew Heighway, Homepin are a crook outfit.

As for reusing technology - there is no need, PROC has proven itself on many games now, the tech isn’t what makes a game good, it’s the design and the code.

Cheers
Neil.


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Thunderbirds doesn't run on a PROC though, so I don't see the link? If it did run on a proc that would be a step forward, at least its not utilising weird custom boards that will be a nightmare to source in years to come. With a proc, you can have your pick of driver architecture, P3 or WPC stuff.

I think the general point being made is that there is no point reinventing the wheel. While the tech doesn't make a game good, any game is going to be **** if it's sitting in storage waiting for parts that are impossible to find.
 
Also Mike has stitched up a bunch of folks who paid for the game in .OZ he’s no better than Andrew Heighway, Homepin are a crook outfit.
I don't know the score but that is a strong statement to make on a public forum if it's based off of anecdotal info.

There's a lot of moaning on Pinside along those lines, but some of it is clearly from people who are let's just say not impartial when it comes to Mike and Homepin. There's a couple of guys in particular who got passed over for a potential business relationship and clearly have an axe to grind.

Just my 2p.
 
Is there any truth to the homepin not making anymore pinballs until they get further investment rumour

Rotten dog probably won’t make replacement pcbs IF homepin go under. Only a handful of thunderbirds have been sold. They won’t sell enough to make it worth it.

I wasn’t impressed with the board set at all. Thought the game was average. Awful art.

Out of interest. Anyone seen a homepin wpc replacement board?!
 
They're for sale on pinballshop.nl but never used one

 
Mike isn't on Pinside any more. He has apparently been off and on there several times. I don't think you can be the figurehead of a company and engage with customers unless you have thick skin, and reading through some of the Homepin thread on there he has thrown his toys out the pram more than once.

There was some interesting innovations in TB, more so in playfield/cab design than the game itself (e.g. hinged speaker panel, wiring info printed on underside of playfield, the trough design that means the balls are kept in if you lift the playfield, etc). Unfortunately there have been some dodgy things too like lifting Ben Heck's board/code without permission or attribution.

Shame really because if nothing else their capacity to make replacement parts for other machines would've been beneficial to all.
 
Code seems lacking to me, plays a ton better with metal ramp though.

I also want to take this opportunity to explain the price on these on my website.

I bought 4 pre xmas and was quoted a bargain* $460 shipping for all 4 units from Oz/China wherever.

The shipment arrived mid Jan but the shipping company (NVO) didnt tell me (or it seems have to tell me) that the goods had landed, despite on the documents it says "Notify Party", that being me, but despite that they dont legally have to notify anyone, so when I finally wondered where they were I got in touch with Highway Games in Oz (their master distributor) who provided me with the details for NVO who had my games.

I called them up and said I'm expecting some pinball machines.... "oh yes" they said "they arrived a while ago, I need to go through the charges with you"..

* =
£860 for UK arrival charges (this is unheard of, there is a small fee for the receiving port etc but this is way out of anything ever experienced before).
£200 for delivery from Manchester (warehouse) to Manchester (Hadfields).

And then, there's the storage... £101... A DAY... so thats £1818!

So the shipping cost $460 but I had to pay another £2700 to get my hands on these 4 games, so that 2700 was divided by 4 and added to the price of each machine. Oh then when we got our hands on them the shippers had smashed one up, Mike's reply was that someone must have it in for HomePin! We can send you some glue and decals....

I've been in discussions with Highway Games since about insurance, their shippers, who's paying me this money back etc...

So if they pay me that will allow me to reduce the price again, if they dont, I may burn them, sell them off cheap or just wait for someone to buy them to recover some money. I'm in a clear out mood at the moment so chances are I'm going to lose my patience and f these off somewhere...

Phil
 
Glue and decals...

Ok, safe to say that my desire to give the benefit of the doubt evaporated.
 
@philpalmer

Sounds like they were loaded onto the ship ‘FOB’ free on board, there’s some arrangement the Chinese have where they load to ship at no cost, on arrival the transport cost has to be paid for by the receiving party.

I bought some machines (for work, not pinball) direct from the Chinese manufacturer, paid a shipping charge only to be told, similar to yourself there was a shipping charge to be paid, hardly going to say no with the cost of each unit! Very annoying, but if you know about this you can arrange the shipping with a UK based shipping agent and pay shipping charges, duty and VAT directly to them and no need to pay the manufacturer.

I’m with you though, VERY annoying.
 
I think what kills Thunderbirds (from what I've seen on vids) is there's no flow. Code is basic but isn't promised to be anything else. But a lack of orbits really kills the game. If the ramp just brought the ball back to the flipper instead of just falling into the pops.


I do laugh when I see people saying they won't deal with people like Mike or Andy from Heighway because they have cheated people but are perfectly fine owning a Ghost busters.
These people usually have Iphones and watch Disney films too 😁
 
The flipper buttons hurt your fingers. They are not normal and concave. Why o why would you not change these as it's been mentioned many times before. It's not a cost issue.

Played it a few times and that was enough for me.
 
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