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System 11b Switch Matrix madness

Fantazia2 said:
Is there a situation in game where 24, 22 and 46 would be activated at the same time?
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Drawbridge down, top left drop and left loop...the perfect storm for an apparently intermittent phantom right outlane fire. Not intermittent though, just not very likely to happen a lot.
 
Is it a new game that you bought with this problem? Or was it known to you as working and has just developed this ?

Do 48 work properly in test mode if you wiggle it about/ pull on the wire/ bang it a bit ? Ie no intermmitent fault/ loose wire/ solder splat/ poorly connector (remove and reseat as a proxy)

If the switch is ok I'd test/ replace the relevant diodes one by one starting with 22.

It's a while since I last did this, but you can snip one diode leg to test and resolder if you want to reduce work.
 
DRD said:
Is it a new game that you bought with this problem? Or was it known to you as working and has just developed this ?

Do 48 work properly in test mode if you wiggle it about/ pull on the wire/ bang it a bit ? Ie no intermmitent fault/ loose wire/ solder splat/ poorly connector (remove and reseat as a proxy)

If the switch is ok I'd test/ replace the relevant diodes one by one starting with 22.

It's a while since I last did this, but you can snip one diode leg to test and resolder if you want to reduce work.
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I've owned her over a year and played the game loads and loads and never noticed the phantom "drain" until I brought her back from Swavesey (but that's probably a coincidence). Even then, I only noticed it when "last chance" occasionally triggered then hitting the loop. My first thought was it's a bug, but couldn't do it again, no matter how hard I tried. I could put noticing it more down to me not being much good at the game and getting slowly better.

I was going to sell her in Feb, so put in some "last few games" and then, being hyper sensitive, really noticed it. Even found another dirty switch in the middle lock and fixed it.

It can't go anywhere broken, Infact, my daughter put her foot down so it's definitely staying for now anyway.

All switches work beautiful in test mode, no shorts I could find last night, but you can imagine the relief when I could repeat the phantom firing again and again. Only when all three switches were on.

This evening will be diode on 22, nice and easy to get to will report back.
 
A classic "rectangle" there - so look at 22 diode first, then the other 3 corners, then chase along the 2 rows and 2 cols. Usually on a switch that is normally closed.
Also check for a diode shorted to something - sometimes they get bent and squashed and make contact with something they shouldn't be in contact with.
 
strobey said:
I'd start with suspecting bad diode or short on 22.

You could test the theory by trying 22, 24 and 38 to see if you get a phantom 40 triggering?
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What strobey said. Try making different squares including one of the suspects in each square. The culprit will reveal itself by being uinique to each square.

Or you could operate a different three of the four, and see if they operate normally without phantom closures. If normal operation of three, then the one you're not holding closed will be the problem.
 
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You guys are genius!!! Exactly that.

Making other squares triggers other phantoms. Just did it with 24,22 and 38, triggering 40 as phantom.

Got to work now ... But back later
 
Actually managed to get a quick diode swap done on 22. Still same problem, old diode tested fine. Deffo seems to be 22 that's the common switch.
 
I have seen factory games with diodes in backwards.
An old CV of mine had the original backbox switch with the diode backwards - caused no end of strange issues.
For the price of diodes - I would just change them on every switch that is part of the issue.
 
Fubar said:
According to this pic the COM and NC are swapped in your photo?

Micro-Switch-Diode-Wiring.gif
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Ahh haa....1678360300427903763780526478550.jpg
Which flips horizontal to go
16783603555735200831225175972312.jpg
So yes, totally wrong. I do think there could be others in the machine wrong then, I was using them as a guide. By the way, my photo was before I swapped the diode, so it's been a problem as long as I've had it, just not good enough to to notice!
 
Ash,

Another thing to watch for with Black Knight 2000 is the W-A-R rollovers at the bottom of the upper playfield. Being positioned above the lane to the ball popper, it's possible for their diodes/switch lugs to become bent together and short out. Though when that happened on a machine on site, I soon heard about it, as the symptoms were much more obvious. Indy PBA has a similar case, caused by the tilting playfield, though the symptom is the Start button.

Looking at your picture of the loop switch, is the central connection, Column 3, actually missing the pin of the microswitch, and being held in contact by the plastic insulation?
 
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Jay Walker said:
Ash,

Another thing to watch for with Black Knight 2000 is the W-A-R rollovers at the bottom of the upper playfield. Being positioned above the lane to the ball popper, it's possible for one of their diodes to become bent together and short out. Though when that happened on a machine on site, I soon heard about it, as the symptoms were much more obvious. Indy PBA has a similar case, with the tilting playfield.

Looking at your picture of the loop switch, is the central connection, Column 3, actually missing the pin of the microswitch, and being held in contact by the plastic insulation?
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It's cool I think, good spot
 

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Ashbo said:
Some quick lunchtime soldering..
View attachment 195706
And...
View attachment 195707
And....IT WORKED 😊😊😊😊
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Fella. Unsolder those white wires. Strip them back, twist together and tin them - and then solder them back on the switch. That joint aint the best my friend.
Have no idea why BW did not twist the cables together before soldering them on a switch.
 
Pick Holder said:
Fella. Unsolder those white wires. Strip them back, twist together and tin them - and then solder them back on the switch. That joint aint the best my friend.
Have no idea why BW did not twist the cables together before soldering them on a switch.
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Yeah, not a tidy job, will sort at the weekend . Impatient Ash looking to fix during a lunchtime ;)
 
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