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STTNG coil issue

Kenny Taylor

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Jul 27, 2015
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North East of Scotland
Folks,
Can some kind person tell me which coil I need to order to replace the burnt one on the U-Trough assembly as I can't seem to find any diagrams of the U-trough(A-17078) assembly in the Operations manual. It's the top one. Currently the machine bypasses the cannons.

IMG_3534.JPG
 
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Er.... If it's the coil in the pic then it's an AE-27-1200. I don't own a STTNG but I own a manual (don't ask) - the coil with that spec in your pic does not appear to be listed in the manual. I can see why it's confusing. uploads.tapatalk_cdn.com_20160815_8ae61c98c760a3d569ad02bb00634409.jpg


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@Jonwolf there are two solenoids in that picture I think Kenny is talking about the lower one (in the picture) which I believe is the upper divertor and is looking a bit worse for wear
I think they are supposed to be AE-25-1000 but I think mine has AE-25-900 or something (i can check later but i know they are not 25-1000)

I would check why the coil has burnt up, is this coil affected by the curse of the detached tie back wire ?
 
Yep the coil is the green one, the bottom one on that picture. What is the curse of the detached tie back wire?

Will wait till you confirm before I place a order for coil and sleeve with Andy..

Cheers
Kenny
 
I would have taken a guess at lines sol# 37 and 38 - Under divertor Top/Bottom. Sposed to be AE-25-1000's

Means the top coil is wrong, however I'm only taking a cursory glance here :D

Have you tried taking the coil off and seeing if the coil number is on the reverse side?
You should be able to tell by looking at the smaller wire to the coil and matching to the table above - if i'm right, one will be brown/white, and the other Black/White....
 
Coil is burnt out making it pretty hard to read the paper and stuck solid. See pic. From you comments it looks like I may need to replace both the upper and lower then.
IMG_3567.JPG
 
What is the curse of the detached tie back wire?

Its a pain in ass, thats what it is..

Basically the tie back wire is very important but is also very thin and delicately soldered onto the up/down target at the top of the playfield, the divertor thats burnt and the aux board in the back box (wee board top right in back box)

Check continuity between the lug on the up/down coil with the thin purple/green wire (also has two thicker purple/green wires on it) and the relevent pin on the middle connector of the aux board. relevent pin being the one that the thin purple/green wire goes to on the aux board. Then test the transistors on the aux board etc etc

I will have a search for an article on it..

edit:
read these for starters
http://www.aussiearcade.com/archive/index.php/t-33739.html

http://kcpins.com/archives/542

http://www.pinballinfo.com/community/threads/sttng-drop-target-coil-issue.25422/
 
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As taken from the bible

Problem:
Star Trek Next Generation diverter coil stuck on!

Star Trek Next Generation (STNG) uses more coils than there are transistors on the Power Driver board. Williams solution was to add a small auxiliary driver board, mounted above and to the right of the main driver board in the backbox. This small auxiliary driver board holds more TIP102 driver transistors for the additional coils needed in STNG. This board needs +50 volts for a "tieback diode" voltage for the circuit. The power is connected by a thin violet/green wire which connects to the playfield's single drop target coil (at the back of the playfield). If this wire breaks, or if some other power wire in this coil power daisy chain breaks, it can cause the two diverter coils to lock on (after they are first activated in game play!) If the problem is not found quickly, the diverter coils and their driving TIP102 transistors (usually Q15 and/or Q7) can fail. Transistors on the auxiliary driver board will fail in one or even a couple of activations if the tieback voltage is not present on the board.

Answer: If the two diverter coils lock on after a game is started, check the violet/green tie-back wire which connects to the playfield's single drop target coil. This wire than daisy chains to the other coils controlled by the auxiliary driver board. It's not a bad idea to add a second back-up wire from the single drop target coil (or another adjacent coil) to the circuit board, just in case one wire breaks. Additionally, add two 1N4004 diodes to each of the under-the-playfield diverter coils (banded side of the diode to the power lug with the thick wire).

Also check D7 and D15 on the aux board with a DMM's diode test (and while you're at it test TIP102 trans Q7 and Q15). With the coil power fuse removed, you can also test U1 pin 13 and pin 8 with a logic probe or DMM - if high (and the diverter is not supposed to be energized), then that U1 is bad (74LS576). That is, the U1 pins that connect to the driver transistors are normally high (when an output U1 pin goes low, the driver transistor completes the ground path for its associated coil). So a logic probe or DMM is useful to look at the U1 output pins (anything low and the associated coil will be energized). Another test of this is to use an aligator jumper wire connected to ground, and touch each U1 output pin - the associated coil should energize. The Aux8 U1 chip is driven through the ribbon cable from the CPU board's U7 chip. A damaged cpu-to-aux8 ribbon cable can also cause some wacky behavior.

Also make sure the diverter coils are the correct type and resistance. The correct coil type is very important (AE-25-1000, but always confirm with the manual). Remove one wire going to each coil, and measure the resistance with a DMM. It should be around 12 ohms and no less. Another common problem is when moving the game and the backbox is laid down, the ribbon cables get pulled, and it wasn't plugged in fully on the board. So if a wire in the ribbon cable is faulty, a diverter coil can lock on and burn and ruin its associated driver transistor on the auxiliary board in the process.

Finally, these 8-driver Auxiliary boards are not necessarily exchangable between game titles. The boards are the same, but there are a set of four jumpers on the Aux board, and the jumpers vary depending on the game title. So if a Aux8 board is transplanted from say Demo Man to STNG, make sure the Aux8 board jumpers are changed accordingly.

The STNG tie back wire on the drop target coil. Picture by Jelle Nelemans.
 
Wow..it's gonna take more than replacing those two coils to fix this fault then. I'll be honest and say that I'm lost with some of the checks above. However I know a man that can :)
 
As I'm useless at waiting. Does anyone have a couple of Williams 25-1000 coils and sleeves I could buy. If not will have to wait until Andy or Phil return from leave.
 
Not a common coil Kenny unfortunately and I would suspect that you may have fried a couple of transistors.
 
Folks,
Thought I'd provide you with a update. After checking fuses, replacing transistors then pre transistors, diodes on a already hacked aux board and burning out another diverter coil. We decided to go down the route of a new rottendog board from pinball displays. Big thumbs up to them for posting it so quickly. Finally good news, so far no coils are locked on and balls are being sent to cannons and they are working perfectly. Big thanks to Mike/Banzai pinabll. Now just the opto trough to replace and maybe a color DMD from http://www.pinballdisplays.co.uk/default.asp.. Shout out to Andy@Pinball Mania for the coils and Phil@Pinball Heaven for the opto..
 
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Yes Sean from pinball displays is epic, got me a colour DMD and a MPU board super quickly and spoke to me over text :D
Andy and Phil are also fantastic with same day shipping and usually next day delivery.

Neil.
 
Having had the fault and worked on it a bit now. I now have a better understanding of the explanation given by Johnnyo. Still a bit wary of it happening in the future. It either didn't work before I got it, the previous hack failed on the board or the wrong type of coil was used. Defo something I need to keep a eye on..
 
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I will repair the Aux board. Be handy as a spare. With the jumpers changed it tested fine on a friends Roadshow. But transistors mainly power flashers and not coils. I'll leave the Rottendog one in STTNG though.

Played fine again last nite. It's great having the cannons working. Just getting the odd two balls being sent to trough. New opto will fix that. Should arrive today :)
 
I will repair the Aux board. Be handy as a spare. With the jumpers changed it tested fine on a friends Roadshow. But transistors mainly power flashers and not coils. I'll leave the Rottendog one in STTNG though.

Played fine again last nite. It's great having the cannons working. Just getting the odd two balls being sent to trough. New opto will fix that. Should arrive today :)
Hi Kenny

Check the opto's under the cannons as they can cause issues with incorrect balls being recognised (they are a bit of a pig due to them having so many sensors) good luck
 
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