So how much is too much for a NIB?

[johnwhitfield]

So as the dust is settling on the two new reveals I still can't get my head around new pins now being between 9k - 12k

I know there are some very rich people in the hobby but 10k for a toy is a lot of cash however you look at it.

What's the most that someone would pay for a brand new game? I know that I shelled out 6.5k on a couple and to be honest I don't really feel that was money well spent. I like the games but are they really twice as good as some of the other games I've bought? Sadly 6.5k is now looking like a low price

It's got to the stage that even if I could afford to pay daft prices there would be other things I'd rather spend my money on.

Would anything convince people on here to spend 10k? Would new technology like the jump from WPC games to Pin2000 do it?

What about if prices went the other way. If a NIB was £5k would anyone jump at that?

 

[ChriX]

I'm with you. Recently have been looking at The Hobbit, and how the lighting, display etc. are all in a different league to the other things around, and that starts from 8k NIB for the standard one. I was gradually coming round to the idea that this may be justified due to the extra tech, but it's not something I could personally justify spending on. Then the other day the new JJP machine comes out starting at 9.5k going to 13k which is another level again.

If a NIB was 5k and I really (really) liked the machine I'd go for it. The thing for me that allows me to own machines is knowing that I can for the most part be safe in the knowledge that I can sell and get back what I paid if I needed the cash for an emergency, so buying NIB is a bit more risky. Would never personally drop anywhere near 10k whilst I can still get my pinball fix for a lot less.

 

[Sam C]

I think unless your an operator going to make money off the game on location, it's too much - and realistically would a game even make 10k on location these days unless it's a classic machine people love?

I have one "Expensive" machine and I love it, but I always look at it and think I could have 3 reasonable games for the same price. Personally now that we are hitting the 5 figure mark NIB is completely out of reach for someone like me. I'd prefer to spend that money on other things. I've not bought a NIB myself yet but even 4 or 5 years ago it was somewhat within reach for me, now it's not.

 

[ronnie63]

It would take an op a long time to get 10k back! probably fall to bits long before he got that kind of money. most of them work on splits with the site owner so he would likely be getting half the takings. Having said that I know of an arcade paying thousands for a Jurassic park vid game! think it was around 10k

 

[Replay]

I can't justify prices anymore. Especially when I get as much fun from a cheap em as a brand new NIB.

STLE was my last NIB and in hindsight I should have kept it.

So, can't see myself ever buying a NIB again.

 

[cooldan]

The last four games I bought were 800 (GORGAR), 1000 (RG), 1250 (R&B) and 1350 (GZ). The most I ever spent on a game was 5K for a minty MB and 4.7K on a minty MM.

I'd be persuaded to spend 5K on a NIB I suppose if I loved it, but anything more than that, forget it.

 

[steve brum]

operators have to weigh up takings versus resale. at the moment to some routing a Stern pro as long as they avoided a turkey was looking good. buy a gb and run it for 3 years and the private market will give 3k easily. centrepiece vids cost a fortune but rake in money. some like star wars pod are over 75k but big sites will lease rather than buy. fruits are 3k new but drop to 100 quid in a year as they make cash quickly. ops I deal with look back fondly at games that did very well for them. turtles video paid for it self in 2 weeks on release in some sites. one op told me he put a new bally space invaders in a student bar and it took 100 a week in 1980 when the machine cost 1k. I know t2 and Taf were paying for themselves in a few months during the glory days. maybe is dial in catches the imagination ops will risk it . I believe whoa Nellie is doing very well on site in the US. I think Heighway with the interchangeable system and lower price point should be the best bet for operators

 

[Rus121]

My TRON was £4200 delivered to my door back in 2011. Had to blow another £1500 to make it how i wanted. If the same machine was £5700 and i didn't have to wait for people to build the mods the machine demands, i would have gone for it anyway. So based on that, 6K tops. For the right machine.

10K on a toy, is a sporty car purchase to me. Don't mind doing that, but a pinball would have to offer that same level of excitement and fear for your life for me to justify that sort of expense. (yes, i have been electrocuted by a pin before. Its awesome, but not the same. lol)

We will see in the coming years how this all plays out, but i expect manufacturers to sell less and less with those mega prices. Heighway's approach may force them all to rethink their pricing structures, but only if their sales stagnate massively in the future and Andy manages to blast out machines like they're going out of fashion.

 

[Courtney Blush]

But that's the whole problem, they sell less so the price has to go up to compensate. That and also the weak pound and it's looking like brand new pinballs are going to be a thing of the past in the UK. Even operators will struggle with the cost, not just purchase cost but add to that VAT, Import Duty etc, no one will take a hike from the £1 a play it is now so I think personally w have seen the last of the Stern, JJ and any other US branded machines here in the UK. Maybe it's more popular as an arcade item in EU but my dreams of one day owning and NIB machine are history. 5K I would have saved up for a machine if it's one I loved the theme of but 10K is serious car money, for what is basically just a toy...

 

[Mooseman]

There is a lot of talk by the pinheads over in the states and the hot topic here at expo is definitely the ridiculous prices.
Last night Gary Stern had a party and his own friends ripped into him about the prices on stage.
Maybe to them its a joke. I think Nib pins are in the past for me too.

 

[stoptap]

£5k

These new prices are obscene and the repercussions in a couple of years will be bad.

 

[Sgt GrizZ]

Whilst prices were around 4 or 5 k you knew you could buy and sell on a year later if desired and not take too much of a hit.

At 9k the number of folk willing to buy a 2nd hand game for anywhere near that is considerably reduced.

Sent from my C6603 using Tapatalk

 

[johnwhitfield]

Resale will be a big problem. I'd probably take a punt on a 2nd hand WOZ, Hobbit, Batman etc if it was 5k but there's no way that some one who has forked out 10k is going to take a five grand hit.

But with no new machines coming onto the 2nd hand market the supply is going to get smaller again. Boo - the day of the 2 grand LW3 is looming It's the a vicious circle with more of us hoarding games and reducing supply even further.

 

[Sgt GrizZ]

But with no new machines coming onto the 2nd hand market the supply is going to get smaller again. Boo - the day of the 2 grand LW3 is looming It's the a vicious circle with more of us hoarding games and reducing supply even further.

Yep - as long as demand remains I suspect all games will continue their climb into the low thousands, we've already seen some DMD games enter the 2K club that only a few years ago were 1K or less..........Whitewater, Creech spring to mind

 

[gringo]

If I spent 10k on a pinball machine my family would disown me, hell they'd disown me if they knew I'd already spent 5

Seriously it's a bit mad that as pinball gets more popular and more manufacturers start to emerge that the prices rocket upwards, seems such a shame.

Maybe we need to start a campaign to get machines into the hands of distributors directly rather than through electrocoin

 

[chris b]

If I spent 10k on a pinball machine my family would disown me, hell they'd disown me if they knew I'd already spent 5

Seriously it's a bit mad that as pinball gets more popular and more manufacturers start to emerge that the prices rocket upwards, seems such a shame.

Maybe we need to start a campaign to get machines into the hands of distributors directly rather than through electrocoin

i dont think that would make much difference on the price to be honest nib pins will always be bought as some people can afford them the second hand will also remain high if you bought a new woz or ordered a hobbit back in the day you will have got your money back or made a profit

 

[stoptap]

Resale will be a big problem. I'd probably take a punt on a 2nd hand WOZ, Hobbit, Batman etc if it was 5k but there's no way that some one who has forked out 10k is going to take a five grand hit.

But with no new machines coming onto the 2nd hand market the supply is going to get smaller again. Boo - the day of the 2 grand LW3 is looming It's the a vicious circle with more of us hoarding games and reducing supply even further.

That is exactly what I was referring to when I mentioned repercussions in a couple of years.

 

[Epotech]

Bought quite a few NIB games. Mainly funded by selling other games. There is no way I'd even consider dropping £10K on a game. £5K hurt for a pro.

 

[Monkeyboypaul]

Haven't bought NIB in the past, and never will going forward.

These new prices and the poor exchange rate will create market stagnation soon, as mentioned above.

I paid £6k for a low use Stern LE once, assuming I wouldn't lose a huge amount if resold, but I won't go any higher for LE's. Saying that, I've probably spent a little bit more over several years on my AFM restoration. Something else I won't do again.

 

[cooldan]

AFM is a stone cold classic though, *if* you ever sold it you'd probably get most of your money back

I'm sensing that most of us aren't too happy about the new price structure for NIB games. What's Pinside saying?

 

[JMP]

For me, £10K buys a lot in real life stuff, like 3 or 4 Florida holidays, a new roof for the house (with a lot of change left over) or even a new car for the missus (probably a brand new one as she drives a Picanto). Think how many parts and components go into that compared to a pinball machine (!) and it just shouts massive mark up/profit all over it.

Anything over £4.5K to £5K and I'm out, unless I win the lottery tonight of course.....

 

[stoptap]

Just think. For £10k you could just about buy ALL of the classic Bally Solid State games.

 

[Banzaipinabll]

Most I have paid for a pin is £1800. Doubt i will ever buy a new in box machine. Think I would would really struggle to justify paying more than £5k for any machine. Would love to own a MB or MM and would pay £4k+. £8k - £12k is just silly money in my opinion, but can understand why they cost that much. Need to get to more shows so I can play these top money games

 

[jonathan]

I paid £6500 for Woz and that's about what Stern LEs were going for at the time, with pros going for £4995. I think those prices are about right.

Pushing £6k for a pro and £9k for an LE is daft

 

[jonathan]

i dont think that would make much difference on the price to be honest nib pins will always be bought as some people can afford them the second hand will also remain high if you bought a new woz or ordered a hobbit back in the day you will have got your money back or made a profit

Not true. I paid £6500 for Woz and struggled to sell it 18months later for £5250

 

[Marvello]

I feel embarrassed when friends ask how much I paid for my tables, the first words out of their mouths are usually Fu*/&#g Hell! I try to justify it by saying it is a huge upfront cost but you can get a lot of your money back if you are lucky.

People keep buying NIB so Stern/JJP will keep increasing their prices for as long as they can get away with it.

 

[Replay]

I feel embarrassed when friends ask how much I paid for my tables, the first words out of their mouths are usually Fu*/&#g Hell! I try to justify it by saying it is a huge upfront cost but you can get a lot of your money back if you are lucky.

People keep buying NIB so Stern/JJP will keep increasing their prices for as long as they can get away with it.

True.
Stern sold out of the Batman LE - 240.
And their silly Super LE was increased from 30 - 80 and they have all sold out with a waitlist.
Crazy times but the fact is they sold out so no chance of reduced prices any time soon.

 

[chris b]

Not true. I paid £6500 for Woz and struggled to sell it 18months later for £5250

you sold it too cheep then

 

[cooldan]

I feel embarrassed when friends ask how much I paid for my tables, the first words out of their mouths are usually Fu*/&#g Hell! I try to justify it by saying it is a huge upfront cost but you can get a lot of your money back if you are lucky.

i used to justify it like that, then i tried the argument that some people will spunk 50K on a fancy car if that's what lights their candle, then i said that over the last 6 years i've owned over 50 machines and overall have broken even so it's been basically play for free.

my latest justification for the games in my stable is that i owe the bank over 200K in mortgage, so a few dozen extra thou in things that make my life more enjoyable doesn't make me worry any more. i'm enormously in debt, but i could be run over by a bus tomorrow, so i don't care as it's better to die happy. but not at more than the cost of a MM.

 

[Chris P]

I think another reason prices of pins keep going up are to do with the economy, if you still earned good interest on your money sitting in the bank it would interesting to see how pin prices would be holding up.
The truth is, if you buy carefully and at the right price, you can actually make money on them when it comes time to selling them.

The main problem we now have is the NIB prices are so high that you really have to ask yourself if you are prepared to take a huge hit to the resale value when it comes to selling, similar to when buying a new car.

This is how I justified buying Met NIB 3 years ago, I figured it would hold its value better in the long run than buying a car. Although I don't plan on selling it anytime soon, I love playing my pins and feel they are great value. But you need to evaluate what the ceiling price of great value is. For me if Stern released a VE edition of Tron tomorrow, I would probably stretch to paying around £7.5k if it had the extra bling similar to the LE, but I definitely wouldn't be paying anything north of that.

Now, looking at the prices heading towards £10k for a toy, it is not looking like a sensible move to me. I might as well spend that type of money on a very nice used car and stick with older pins.