Removing rivets on 80s Williams side armour

[VeeMonroe]

What do you use to remove these (rivets?) on the side armour before painting/powder coating? And what parts/equipment do you use to put the side armour back on afterwards?

This is an 80s Alien Poker.

Also, do I powder coat the leg bolts, as well as the legs?

 

[Mfresh]

These are spiral screws and they are a right bugger to get out without the right tool.

What you need is a pair of flush cut pincers - these are like pliers but with thin sharp edges which get in between the screw and the cabinet. Then you can just pull out, or twist and pull out.
Good ones are not cheap, but make the job easy. Here's what I got:

C.S. Osborne No.93 Flush Cut Shoemakers Pincers - Hwebber

The Osborne No.93 Flush Cut Shoemakers Pincers - a rugged forged steel pincer for heavy cutting. Polished flush cut jaws for getting close to a flat surface

hwebber.co.uk

When it comes to replacing them you can buy new spiral screws:

Spiral Nails for Side Rail 20-6505K

Spiral Nails for Side Rail 20-6505K

pinparts.co.uk

but it makes much more sense in my opinion to reattach with regular screws which means that the rails can easily be removed again in the future.

It's really hard to get all the screws out without bending the side rails at all. If you are going to do some powder coating it might be worth considering getting new side rails if they get too bent

 

[Doug]

These should do the job: https://www.temu.com/uk/8pcs-removal-tool-kit-repair-disassembly-tools-set-auto-car-stereo-refit-kits-interior-plastic-trim-panel-dashboard-installation-g-601099513996435.html?top_gallery_url=https://img.kwcdn.com/product/Fancyalgo/VirtualModelMatting/c988b28067e0eef3e4a6cad4b2103b56.jpg&spec_gallery_id=13252317&_bg_fs=1&_x_ads_sub_channel=shopping&_x_vst_scene=adg&_x_ns_sku_id=17592200381419&_x_ads_channel=bing&_x_gmc_account=3429411&_x_ads_creative_id=82051423122917&_x_ns_device=m&_x_ads_account=176202708&_x_ns_match_type=e&_x_ns_msclkid=6249db90409d10c6f09abfe366918809&_x_ads_set=518846486&_x_ns_source=s&_x_ads_id=1312819171238384&refer_page_name=kuiper&refer_page_id=13873_1685267989033_e7dz5iwlqq&refer_page_sn=13873&_x_sessn_id=i17spza002&is_back=1 ( the blue one with the cranked shaft and snake tongue)
When you replace the rivets I would suggest you first glue a small dowel/thick matchstick into the original hole or the new rivets wont stay tight for long. And to avoid damaging the rails, use a metal weight ( dolly) inside the cab as you hit the nail head so as to support it.

 

[VeeMonroe]

These are spiral screws and they are a right bugger to get out without the right tool.

What you need is a pair of flush cut pincers - these are like pliers but with thin sharp edges which get in between the screw and the cabinet. Then you can just pull out, or twist and pull out.
Good ones are not cheap, but make the job easy. Here's what I got:

C.S. Osborne No.93 Flush Cut Shoemakers Pincers - Hwebber

The Osborne No.93 Flush Cut Shoemakers Pincers - a rugged forged steel pincer for heavy cutting. Polished flush cut jaws for getting close to a flat surface

hwebber.co.uk

When it comes to replacing them you can buy new spiral screws:

Spiral Nails for Side Rail 20-6505K

Spiral Nails for Side Rail 20-6505K

pinparts.co.uk

but it makes much more sense in my opinion to reattach with regular screws which means that the rails can easily be removed again in the future.

It's really hard to get all the screws out without bending the side rails at all. If you are going to do some powder coating it might be worth considering getting new side rails if they get too bent

Folks, I've tried the flush cut pincers. Got one of the screws out just fine, but the rest are so close in to the rail that I've got no way of getting under the screw. Any suggestions? If not, I'll have to drill them out.

I'm scratching the rail, but I'm taking them off to powder coat so - hopefully - not a problem.

 

[AlanJ]

a wide paint scraper under the side rail to lift it away from wood. hopefully pulls the nail out a little bit so you can get hold of it.

also these are really good :

 

[mufcmufc]

Don’t powder coat the leg bolts, the threads will no longer fit the hole

 

[VeeMonroe]

Don’t powder coat the leg bolts, the threads will no longer fit the hole

I’d realised that. I was going to buy some pre-coloured ones

I did wonder what I did about the new screws/nails when I powder coat the side rails? Because there are loads of them and they stand out like a sore thumb.

 

[Ant-H]

You can just ask your powder coaters to only coat the heads of the leg bolts. The guys I use mask up the threads so they can still screw into the leg plates.

 

[Doug]

If all else fails, use a dot punch on the nail heads for a base and drill them out first with a very small drill bit and follow up with an 1/8th inch bit. That should do the job.

 

[Fantazia2]

Is there enough meat on them to dremel a slot in the top of the nail and turn out using a screwdriver enough until you can get some pliers on them?

Would have to be careful not to dremel into the side rail though.

 

[AlanJ]

i also modified a paint scraper to get right around the nail between the side rail and the wood :

 

[VeeMonroe]

Okay. I am in absolute despair about these spiral screws on Alien Poker. I’ve tried a paint scraper and dedicated equipment (see pics). I’ve got some of the screws out (see pics), but others are totally resistant to removal.

I was nervous about drilling sidewards into the screws incase I damaged the side armour. So, in desperation, I tried drilling out the screws. So far, I’ve cut a hole in my finger without noticing (the rest on the paint scraper is blood) and broken a drill bit. But, the screw now appears welded to the side armour (see pic). I throw myself on your tender mercies as to how to get these damn things off!

 

[new forest pinball]

Hi Vee,
you will never be successful with those pinchers, totally the wrong tool until the nails are half out! Then possibly ok……
What you need is a pair of these….

Car Push Retainer Rivets Fastener Trim Clip Cutter Remover Plier Puller To;-. | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Car Push Retainer Rivets Fastener Trim Clip Cutter Remover Plier Puller To;-. at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products.

www.ebay.co.uk

Unfortunately the design changed recently and they added the hole (see picture).

Before without it, it was even more effective.(maybe you might be able to find the other version via google).Use the flat part of the tool before the hole. About 60% of the time you can just pinch the nail and with a twisting + lifting action you can remove it relatively quickly and easily. Otherwise use a good stiff paint scraper to gently lift the trim and nail, it only needs to be a fraction off the surface and this tool will grab it …… hopefully this helps as the above thread is a tale of woe…….

Anyway dm me if you need anything..
Cheers Keef…….

 

[VeeMonroe]

Hi Vee,
you will never be successful with those pinchers, totally the wrong tool until the nails are half out! Then possibly ok……
What you need is a pair of these….

Car Push Retainer Rivets Fastener Trim Clip Cutter Remover Plier Puller To;-. | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Car Push Retainer Rivets Fastener Trim Clip Cutter Remover Plier Puller To;-. at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products.

www.ebay.co.uk

Unfortunately the design changed recently and they added the hole (see picture).

Before without it, it was even more effective.(maybe you might be able to find the other version via google).Use the flat part of the tool before the hole. About 60% of the time you can just pinch the nail and with a twisting + lifting action you can remove it relatively quickly and easily. Otherwise use a good stiff paint scraper to gently lift the trim and nail, it only needs to be a fraction off the surface and this tool will grab it …… hopefully this helps as the above thread is a tale of woe…….

Anyway dm me if you need anything..
Cheers Keef…….View attachment 226535

I’ve ordered that (unfortunately, my brief search revealed only the hole version). Will give it a go when it arrives…

Honestly, I’ll have spent more on tools before I finish this than I spent on the new playfield

 

[AlanJ]

got to prise the nail slightly out of the wood using the paint scraper (or whatever) underneath.

Sometimes the nail stays stuck to the side rail, try some wd40 etc to unstick it so it comes out from the rail so you can get a grip on it.

 

[carl lawrence]

I couldn’t do all of above as the twist nails had sunken in the side rails a bit , so I had to do it another way https://www.pinballinfo.com/community/threads/space-invaders-the-reborn.39045/page-4
Hope this helps a bit !

 

[VeeMonroe]

got to prise the nail slightly out of the wood using the paint scraper (or whatever) underneath.

Sometimes the nail stays stuck to the side rail, try some wd40 etc to unstick it so it comes out from the rail so you can get a grip on it.

I’ve tried that You can’t get a hair between some of these screws and the side rail, never mind a paint scraper I’ve ordered the tool @new forest pinball suggested and, if that fails, I might also try dremelling the head and drilling as @carl lawrence did.

My masterplan had been to drill out the middle of the screw and pop off the ‘ring’ left around the edge, but that just broke a small drill bit. Not sure how I gouged two holes in my finger in the process - I think that might have been during my further adventures with paint scrapers!

 

[AlanJ]

the paint scraper goes between the wood and the side rail not between the side rail and the nail.

 

[new forest pinball]

You are putting the paint scraper under the trim not the nail? (Just checkin)…….Alan beat me to it

 

[replicas]

Purdy 900215 Purdy Multi-Use 6in1 Stainless Steel Decorator Tool with Hammerhead | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Purdy 900215 Purdy Multi-Use 6in1 Stainless Steel Decorator Tool with Hammerhead at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products.

www.ebay.co.uk

Try one of these to get under the rail it's strong enough to prise the rail so you can get a good hold of the screw head.
The scraper you are using is not fit for purpose.

 

[AlanJ]

That looks like a tool I need

 

[VeeMonroe]

the paint scraper goes between the wood and the side rail not between the side rail and the nail.

I tried that with the (pictured) paint scraper, as well. That's part of the adventure that cut my finger. The scraper took the paint off the cab (you can see on the picture my previous attempt). I assume that doesn't matter as I'm going to repaint and stencil the cab?

[Just tried again with the paint scraper incase I was missing something obvious like the total n00b I evidently am. The scraper just gouged holes into the soft wooden cab and didn't lift the side rail, which is pretty tight on. I can obviously see if the tool above works better(?)]

 

[drhex]

if you repaint anyway wack it in with a hammer and tilt.

 

[JT.]

If all else fails, take the cab in to the garden and set fire to it. Come back the next morning and the rails will be detached

 

[VeeMonroe]

Update. I’ve now got multiple pieces of equipment involved. The sliding rivet popper tool hasn’t arrived yet, but I’ve basically tried to Dremel the spiral screw top entirely flat in the hope I can lever it off afterwards. I’m hoping I can still powder coat the side rails afterwards as I think powder coating is pretty thick.

 

[s000m]

Update. I’ve now got multiple pieces of equipment involved. The sliding rivet popper tool hasn’t arrived yet, but I’ve basically tried to Dremel the spiral screw top entirely flat in the hope I can lever it off afterwards. I’m hoping I can still powder coat the side rails afterwards as I think powder coating is pretty thick.

View attachment 226696

View attachment 226695

Vee, I'm going to try and be kind here. Please just buy new rails and ditch this rail. It's royally mullered.

 

[VeeMonroe]

Vee, I'm going to try and be kind here. Please just buy new rails and ditch this rail. It's royally mullered.

It’s better than it looks… Or, more properly, it’s not gouged out - it’s just taken the chrome off.

 

[Ant-H]

Hopefully they come off. The issue you might have now is where you cut the head off, it creates a burr which folds over on to the side rail which will make it hard to remove.

If any damage is to deep, powder coating won’t cover it. The best thing to do if you want to reuse these is once they are removed sand then down with an orbital sander and 240 grit disc. That might remove some of it.

 

[VeeMonroe]

Hopefully they come off. The issue you might have now is where you cut the head off, it creates a burr which folds over on to the side rail which will make it hard to remove.

If any damage is to deep, powder coating won’t cover it. The best thing to do if you want to reuse these is once they are removed sand then down with an orbital sander and 240 grit disc. That might remove some of it.

I made sure it wasn’t deep damage. It’s just chrome. I’m hoping the head of the screw pops off when I take the rail off.

 

[Ant-H]

Did you grind them down or cut them? As the heat from grinding the head down may have welded the top of the spiral nail to the side rail.