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RCD Tripping 🤯

Andypc

Andypc

Site Supporter
5Years
Joined
Oct 24, 2015
Messages
837
Location
London, UK
I am having a problem in my arcade garage with the RCD tripping if I turn more than a few things on at once. Trying to find the root cause is proving to be rather difficult. The garage has it's own 32A ring main and runs back to the main fuse box in the house. I have had an electrician out to test the circuit and he also replaced the RCD with new 80A RCD, but it's still tripping. It is not tripping the 32A fuse, just the RCD. The electrician also checked the load when I did manage to turn nearly everything on and he said that was not the problem.

Unfortunately when it trips it takes the whole house out. A few of my Arcade Machines have PC's/Consoles in so the power cutting out is really not good for them.

I have tried unplugging things in turn to try an narrow down what is causing the problem, but just when I thought I had narrowed it down to one of two machines it tripped out with them both completely unplugged. Everything in the garage is working perfectly if I only have one or two on at a time, but turn on three of four and the RCD trips. It normally trips as I am turning things on, which I do one at a time.

I have another electrician coming in early January, but I am at a bit of loss on how to track down the problem. I used to have no problems having everything on at the same time when I had friends over.
 
I solved by rcb tripping issues by replacing with a RCBO, ie before i had a whole set of house circuits each with a separate MCB fuse but all on one RCB - I took out the RCB and each of the MCBs and replaced with A set of RCBOs. Not had an issue since then, but prior I had several trips a week of the RCB. By splitting into Multiple RCBs, the current leakage across many circuits and many devices is split up, causing less trips (or in my case none). The other advantage is if one was to trip it doesn’t take out the rest of the circuits.
 
If it’s the RCD you have earth leakage. Nothing to do with load. If your electrician has changed your RCD to 80ma ( not sure I’ve ever seen 80ma usually goes up to 100ma) you are defeating the point of having one as 30ma is the minimum that is deemed dangerous/harmful and 100ma etc won’t give you protection and are more for protection of equipment etc.
Plus any socket outlet 32a and below have to be protected by a RCD rated at 30 ma or below, it’s part of the electrical regulations.

As with all RCD faults, if you can exclude the actual electrical installation as you say your electrician has tested.
Then the earth fault must be on something plugged into the Ring main.
So I would unplug everything and plug them in one at a time, waiting until each machine is fully booted up and runnng.

Sorry so long winded but hope this helps.
 
Bobbdobalina said:
If it’s the RCD you have earth leakage. Nothing to do with load. If your electrician has changed your RCD to 80ma ( not sure I’ve ever seen 80ma usually goes up to 100ma) you are defeating the point of having one as 30ma is the minimum that is deemed dangerous/harmful and 100ma etc won’t give you protection and are more for protection of equipment etc.
Plus any socket outlet 32a and below have to be protected by a RCD rated at 30 ma or below, it’s part of the electrical regulations.

As with all RCD faults, if you can exclude the actual electrical installation as you say your electrician has tested.
Then the earth fault must be on something plugged into the Ring main.
So I would unplug everything and plug them in one at a time, waiting until each machine is fully booted up and runnng.

Sorry so long winded but hope this helps.
Click to expand...
I did that in my house. everything unplugged including fridge , freezer, ovens etc. gradually plugged them all back in. no trips, then bang two days later it started tripping again, so that’s why i went with the RCBOs in the end. I also had various electricians round. nobody could fix it. I concluded that I had tiny amounts of earth leakage in several of the circuits and or several of the devices. by splitting onto individual RCBs , spreads the leakage and thus eradicates the problem.
My house was on a split load system with 1/2 on one rcb and 1/2 on a second rcb. I only ever had a problem with one half. so that’s the one now with RCBOs (lhs in pic)but the other 1/2 is fine with the MCB fuses and a common RCD (rhs in pic)
1268BE42-7844-45B5-AB83-2D872ECC589B.jpeg
 
IN terms of any pinball/arcade games -> Line filters and/or Thermistors need checking/replacing.

Thermistors are there to stop an in rush of current at power on and when they get old they stop doing it so well and an RCD sees the instant on as a short and trips out
 
I had this on data east GNR, there is a thread , it’s always when you really want to have all pins working , went to a lunch at a friends last week he took all the me. Out to see his new motorbike I said I’ll take it for a spin , it was fast around the yard, he was very chuffed with such a fine machine and went to start it again but it wound not start so after 30 red faced minutes he rolled it into the shed and we all went back in. :)
 
AlanJ said:
I did that in my house. everything unplugged including fridge , freezer, ovens etc. gradually plugged them all back in. no trips, then bang two days later it started tripping again, so that’s why i went with the RCBOs in the end. I also had various electricians round. nobody could fix it. I concluded that I had tiny amounts of earth leakage in several of the circuits and or several of the devices. by splitting onto individual RCBs , spreads the leakage and thus eradicates the problem.
My house was on a split load system with 1/2 on one rcb and 1/2 on a second rcb. I only ever had a problem with one half. so that’s the one now with RCBOs (lhs in pic)but the other 1/2 is fine with the MCB fuses and a common RCD (rhs in pic)
View attachment 155726
Click to expand...
Yeah 100%, that’s the way to do it. If just to reduce the inconvenience of half the house tripping and nothing else.
In your case it solved the tripping problem but in a lot cases it will only narrow it down to one circuit.
 
myPinballs said:
IN terms of any pinball/arcade games -> Line filters and/or Thermistors need checking/replacing.

Thermistors are there to stop an in rush of current at power on and when they get old they stop doing it so well and an RCD sees the instant on as a short and trips out
Click to expand...
I’m not knowledgeable on components, but I know an RCD isn’t concerned with an inrush of current as long as it balanced. As it doesn’t offer any over current protection.
An RCBO offers both earth leakage and over current protection but this also depends on the type B or C . C being motor rated so will allow for more starting current than a type B.
 
RCBOs are your answer. C type is less sensitive than B type and better for old pinball machines
 
The things in your garage that are tripping it, try plugging them into an extension lead and see if it still happens.
 
Bobbdobalina said:
If it’s the RCD you have earth leakage. Nothing to do with load. If your electrician has changed your RCD to 80ma ( not sure I’ve ever seen 80ma usually goes up to 100ma) you are defeating the point of having one as 30ma is the minimum that is deemed dangerous/harmful and 100ma etc won’t give you protection and are more for protection of equipment etc.
Plus any socket outlet 32a and below have to be protected by a RCD rated at 30 ma or below, it’s part of the electrical regulations.

As with all RCD faults, if you can exclude the actual electrical installation as you say your electrician has tested.
Then the earth fault must be on something plugged into the Ring main.
So I would unplug everything and plug them in one at a time, waiting until each machine is fully booted up and runnng.

Sorry so long winded but hope this helps.
Click to expand...
The new RCD is rated at 80A, but will still trip at 30ma of leakage.

I have tried unplugging everything and plugging in one at a time etc. The issue is I can't identify what is causing the problem as I have had it trip at different times with completely different things plugged in.
 
Andypc said:
The new RCD is rated at 80A, but will still trip at 30ma of leakage.

I have tried unplugging everything and plugging in one at a time etc. The issue is I can't identify what is causing the problem as I have had it trip at different times with completely different things plugged in.
Click to expand...
How many house circuits are on that RCD ?
 
Andypc said:
The new RCD is rated at 80A, but will still trip at 30ma of leakage.

I have tried unplugging everything and plugging in one at a time etc. The issue is I can't identify what is causing the problem as I have had it trip at different times with completely different things plugged in.
Click to expand...
Ahh I get you, it was a miss understanding on my part.
The 80 amp part doesn’t really mean anything other than the device is rated at 80 amp.
This means the components making up the RCD can operate safely up to 80A.

An RCD doesn’t provide over current protection.

I think your best way forward, as said by others is to use RCBO’s on all your individual power circuits (not lighting etc)
And for your garage use a type C.
Type C MCB’s or RCBO’s are designed for motors and more inductive loads so they will allow a split second of greater than their rated load without tripping.

Ps electrics are a pain in the ar*e,a bit like my pinball at the moment.😆
 
Indeed @DRD is correct. RCBO's are the best way - but it means changing your fuseboard and more than likely messing with lighting circuits (as up until 20 odd years ago people used to wire up and down stairs light so the landing light shared a neutral from upstairs and the live from downstairs....

You will find that you have a duff mains filter in one of your games. Pins are not usually problematic.

OR - you have lots of little issues that add up to 30mA of fault.

Most boards I fit these days (not many as I am busy repairing pins and jukeboxes but still am fully qualified) - are individual RCBO's - it does cost a hell of a lot more but really helps out nuisance tripping.
 
This is my Fuseboard. Will I need a new Fuseboard or can the MCB's just be changed for RCBO's? 20211224_183039.jpg

Do they not do 6A RCBO'S for lighting circuits?
 
RCD as the main switch? never see that before. is that the only board in the house?

Just swap the garage one to an RCBO - it should be ok but if I was you I'd get a new box with a proper main switch.

Neil.
 
Neil McRae said:
RCD as the main switch? never see that before. is that the only board in the house?

Just swap the garage one to an RCBO - it should be ok but if I was you I'd get a new box with a proper main switch.

Neil.
Click to expand...
This is the Fuseboard for downstairs. Upstairs has a seperate Fuseboard.

What is the advantage of a separate mains switch, as I can turn off all the power with the RCD Switch?
 
Yes, nuisance tripping is often a real pain to solve even for those of us who are qualified electricians. I agree that an ideal solution is to have each circuit on its own RCBO (I can see you have some circuits covered this way) as it can help to narrow down where the imbalance is occurring that's triggering the RCD protection and more to the point will effectively spread the 'normal leakages' that is maybe across the circuits already. Impossible to gauge at a distance, but have you disconnected everything (including bulbs as sometimes they can have short faults) that's in the house on all the circuits that are on the shared 80A RCD and then just plugged in the pins to see if they are ok? It could be that there is leakage in a pin (for some of the reasons given by others) that's not enough by itself to take the total leakage over the tipping point but is when added to other things you have. Obviously worse case is where you have an intermittent leakage fault in a device so worth switching items on/off to see if the position changes. Agree a Type C isn't the obvious answer here if there's not a load surge that's tripping the circuit protector element. Finally, have you got any sockets with built in USB charge points as I've found these can develop leakage?
 
Pick Holder said:
Indeed @DRD is correct. RCBO's are the best way - but it means changing your fuseboard and more than likely messing with lighting circuits (as up until 20 odd years ago people used to wire up and down stairs light so the landing light shared a neutral from upstairs and the live from downstairs....

You will find that you have a duff mains filter in one of your games. Pins are not usually problematic.

OR - you have lots of little issues that add up to 30mA of fault.

Most boards I fit these days (not many as I am busy repairing pins and jukeboxes but still am fully qualified) - are individual RCBO's - it does cost a hell of a lot more but really helps out nuisance tripping.
Click to expand...
Andypc said:
This is my Fuseboard. Will I need a new Fuseboard or can the MCB's just be changed for RCBO's? View attachment 155749

Do they not do 6A RCBO'S for lighting circuits?
Click to expand...
You don’t need RCBOs for lighting circuit or boiler circuits, cctv, burglar alarm as the primary reason is to protect the person. And most likely interface people have with their electrical installation is through portable appliances which are also the most likely things to develop earth faults due their nature of not being fixed.
Plus you tend to get nuisance tripping from lighting and the last thing you want is an essential circuit like alarm etc tripping whilst on holiday.
But at the end of the day up to the individual.
 
ive seen a few smaller old fuseboxes with rcd's as a main switch in peoples houses,im sure sometimes it's where people dont have enough space for a rcd and main switch,and cannot be bothered to fit a larger box,or they use cowboy electricians
 
AlanJ said:
**** it - just forget all the hassle and move to a bigger house with a massive pin room. Merry Christmas - Hic!
Click to expand...
😆 Wish I could, but not an option just yet.

stevebm1 said:
ive seen a few smaller old fuseboxes with rcd's as a main switch in peoples houses,im sure sometimes it's where people dont have enough space for a rcd and main switch,and cannot be bothered to fit a larger box,or they use cowboy electricians
Click to expand...
What is the advantage of having a separate mains switch and RCD switch? My Fuseboard has been looked at by several different electricians over the years an no one has called it out as a problem, so unsure what your implying by cowboy electricians. It was fitted when we had our kitchen done and is next to our electric meter in one of our kitchen cupboards. Unfortunately that limited the size of Fuseboard that could be used, but was big enough for the number of circuits we have downstairs.
 
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Replacing the main switch with an RCD is a straightforward job if there is a seperate isolator adjacent to the meter. If the meter tails come come straight into the consumer unit it is not advised with an RCD in that postion remember that an earth-leakage fault on any circuit will cause a loss of supply to all cicuits. A High-Integrity board only halves the potential problem ( 2 RCDs). A High-Integrity board with RCBOs on essential cicuits is better. Sod's Law dictates that an RCD is likely to trip while you are on holiday with a freezer full of food ready for your return,sorry ,I wasn't implying you used a cowboy electrician,it's just some will go for the quick fix,personally I would put in a main switch and rcbo's on the circuits,hopefully that should solve your problem
 
I have been down this rabbit hole.

Most people will now be connecting more and more items to the electrical supply in their home. I have vastly more things plugged in now that I did 10 years ago.

Folk now have chargers everywhere, boiler taps, induction hobs, air con units, electric car chargers, air purifiers, multiple TVs, multiple broadband routers, electrical underfloor heating, security LED lights (surge currents) .....

A fault anywhere can cause weird problems. Electrical flutter/ spikes/ inductive loads/ bulbs blowing .... Variations in the incoming supply can cause problems - let alone what you plug into it.

A bank of RCBOs means only one circuit goes down at a time. Cheap breakers might be a fiver each, RCBOs (depending on the brand) might be 15 to 40 each.

I don't want to contradict posts above, but problems with filament light bulbs led me to getting RCBOs in the first place, when I did not have a single pinball machine in the house.

I was living between 2 homes and I went full RCBO because when a filament bulb blew (on a timed light connected to the ring main or general lighting circuit) it took every electrical circuit down, including the central heating pump which was a real problem during winter.
 
Thanks for all the advice from everyone. I had my electrician install RCBO's and went with a Type C RCBO for the garage and it has solved the problem 🙂. I also got the electrician to fully test all the equipment in the garage before installing the RCBO's and everything tested fine with no faults. Also went back to a normal Main Switch as all the circuits are protected by RCBO's 👍
20220112_093212.jpg
 
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