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Random Resets on Banzai Run

Andy B

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1 10 Years
Joined
Oct 6, 2014
Messages
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Location
Hull. England.
I'm helping out a guy that bought the Banzai Run that sold recently on Ebay. He used to play one in his formative years in a local pub and he's always wanted to own one himself but has never been able to find one for sale. His dad passed away recently and left him some money so he bid big on the Ebay one as he knew his dad would have loved him to use the cash for something like that. He drove a long way down south to pick it up, played it before he paid for it and of course, sod's law, he's got it back home and has issues.

He was not getting much help from the guy he bought it from ("It was fine when it left me") and got my name from Martin as being someone local who might be able to help out.

Popped down Monday and the issues that were presenting themselves were a switch error and "a loud banging when the machine was first switched on and after the end of some games". I fixed the switch error - was just a non activated switch. This also resolved the knocker firing up (loud banging) at switch on as this is apparently another way a system 11 game lets you know there's a switch issue - I did not know that! Knocker after the end of some games was diagnosed as him getting the match (if only all diagnostics were so easy :)).

Anyways I came away Monday with a shopping list of a few spare parts to get for him with the intent of going back in a couple of weeks (Pinball Mania website is closed for orders at the minute and Pinball Heaven don't have everything I need) to do cosmetics.

Tuesday I get a message to say that the machine is randomly resetting (he did mention this to me on Monday but as it was working fine whilst I was there after I fixed the switch issue we both thought no more about it!).

Reading the pinball repair guides and they call out Aux Power board components as potential weak spots causing random resets. Guy says he doesn't mind spending a bit of money on the machine to get it 100% tip top working and I did not really want to spend hours and hours doing diagnostics and then board repairs so I got approval to buy a Rotten Dog Aux Power board to swap out with the old one. Took that down tonight and swapped out the old one but reset issues are still there. Spent an hour or so playing the game trying to ascertain if the resets could be attributed to one particular thing - flipper button presses, particular coils firing, the motor that drives the motorcycle up and down the vertical playfield running etc. but they are totally random.

I really feel for the guy as he has spent big bucks on the machine, he's waited years to get one and there's the sentimental connection to his dad so I said I will go back when the spare parts come in from Pinball Mania and spend more time trying to diagnose the reset issue.

Just wondering if anyone has had similar issues with a Banzai Run and can point me in the direction of a likely culprit where I can start before I go down the Williams System 11 pinball repair guide list of things that might cause resets?

As he's not that bothered about spending a bit of money on the machine, he just wants it right, I might also suggest he buys a replacement power board - thoughts?

Cheers

Andy
 
Fair play for helping the buyer out @Andy B, I'm sure the hive mind will assist you.

@myPinballs may take delivery of the boards fault find and repair, could be a better use of cash if the original boards are in not bad shape, could save you a few hours of your own time too.

Chris
 
That’s not good, the guy who sold it has had pinballs for over 20 years and got way over the going rate for it and couldn’t be bothered to try and help. Nice one!

Good luck with it and nice of you to help out, hopefully something simple.

Just had a quick search and there was a reset problem with another system 11 Elvira and it turned out to be the slam tilt doing it🤞
 
A mates comet was doing random resets ( yea comets sys 9) and I ended up with it to try and find the fault.
Turned out it was a molex plug 16/20 or 24 pin I can’t remember between the b/box and under the playfield. This may not be your problem but it’s a thought.
Parting the plug and reconnecting it a few times cured it.
 
I was getting a reset with Cosmic Gunfight when I flipped both flippers at the same time (though thats system 7 not 11). Not sure how much is the same. Furiously flipping both flippers made it happen 100%
This turned out to be a dodgy connector for one of the 5v lines.
 
A mates comet was doing random resets ( yea comets sys 9) and I ended up with it to try and find the fault.
Turned out it was a molex plug 16/20 or 24 pin I can’t remember between the b/box and under the playfield. This may not be your problem but it’s a thought.
Parting the plug and reconnecting it a few times cured it.
Thanks, I've tried reseating the connectors from transformer to backbox already.
 
I was getting a reset with Cosmic Gunfight when I flipped both flippers at the same time (though thats system 7 not 11). Not sure how much is the same. Furiously flipping both flippers made it happen 100%
This turned out to be a dodgy connector for one of the 5v lines.
Thanks, this one resets totally randomly, even, for instance, when just plunging the ball so no power strain/demands at all.
 
A possible culprit may be the bridge rectifier on the power supply board (the old-fashioned '8345' type, stripped down but still in use for Banzai). If the 12v output dips below a threshold voltage, 10.5, a reset occurs.
 
A possible culprit may be the bridge rectifier on the power supply board (the old-fashioned '8345' type, stripped down but still in use for Banzai). If the 12v output dips below a threshold voltage, 10.5, a reset occurs.
Thanks Jay - will add that to my list of things to check/replace when I go back in a couple of weeks.
 
The component itself is the older type, too. With spade terminals rather than round wire pins.

Ah, a knocker alarm, quite a shock if you aren't used to it. With the early System 11 games, the adjustment to disable it was presented as for situations where the knocker drive was being used for a token dispenser. I always turned it off, as enough folk thought machines were too noisy, in any case.
 
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Only just spotted this thread. All those faults are 50V related so odd that the Aux power board didn't help. I'd go through the main power board with a fine tooth comb and reflow all the MPU power connectors. Banzai backbox is a very vibey noisy place and a lot of my electronics problems have stemmed from vibration induced failures. Reflowing and checking all connectors a good start but recapping and checking all the rectifiers on the power board well worth doing too. Aux power board is a complete fun fest sometimes. Not familiar with the Rotten dog one but have got mine working properly now. Took a lot of fault finding and component fixing. Spent a lot of time with my head in the BR backbox so please let me know if I can help if yo're still having problems.
 
Only just spotted this thread. All those faults are 50V related so odd that the Aux power board didn't help. I'd go through the main power board with a fine tooth comb and reflow all the MPU power connectors. Banzai backbox is a very vibey noisy place and a lot of my electronics problems have stemmed from vibration induced failures. Reflowing and checking all connectors a good start but recapping and checking all the rectifiers on the power board well worth doing too. Aux power board is a complete fun fest sometimes. Not familiar with the Rotten dog one but have got mine working properly now. Took a lot of fault finding and component fixing. Spent a lot of time with my head in the BR backbox so please let me know if I can help if yo're still having problems.


Thanks.

I ordered a new X-Pin power board from the US (PH did not have any in stock) along with x-pin score displays (his old ones had lines missing).

Hopefully changing the power board for X-pin should resolve the reset issues.

Will update post after I go fit the new boards for the guy this Sunday.
 
Sounds awesome. Will keep an eye out. If you still get resets, worth reflowing 1J17 (5V and 12V and gnds) on the top left of the CPU board just in case there are cracked solder joints as that's nearest the upper left playfield top rest which gets the king of the hill flipper and hill kicker vibration (also near the hill lift motor and susceptible to any flipper induced vibration).

PS you can turn the start up knocker off - Adjustment 50.
 
Sounds awesome. Will keep an eye out. If you still get resets, worth reflowing 1J17 (5V and 12V and gnds) on the top left of the CPU board just in case there are cracked solder joints as that's nearest the upper left playfield top rest which gets the king of the hill flipper and hill kicker vibration (also near the hill lift motor and susceptible to any flipper induced vibration).

PS you can turn the start up knocker off - Adjustment 50.


Thanks for the tips, particularly the one about reflowing the header pins on the CPU - the guy will be mortified if the new power board doesn’t sort out his reset issue as he’ll have forked out around £700 for the aux board, power board and score displays!
 
Thanks for the tips, particularly the one about reflowing the header pins on the CPU - the guy will be mortified if the new power board doesn’t sort out his reset issue as he’ll have forked out around £700 for the aux board, power board and score displays!

New power supply board seems to have fixed the reset issue. Fitted it yesterday and we tested it for a good few hours with no resets. I also reflowed the CPU connector for good measure.

Guy seems happy now with new X-Pin display also fitted.

Only things wrong with it now:

A broken plastic which he has bought from an EBay seller in the U.S.

Two of the flashers in the backbox “topper” are not working. Replaced sockets and bulbs, reflowed pins on the pcb connector and tested all the transistors whilst I had the CPU board out - all tested good. Said the only thing left to try would be to reflow the solder on the Pin header on CPU board for the connectors for those flashers but by that time I was 5 hours in and had, had the cpu board out and back in twice already so said I would try that next time we have the board out (hopefully never!) but he seemed happy to live with that.
 
It is power board first!

I am working on a Bally Game show at the moment and the first thing I did was change the caps on the power board and replaced the transistor. Then reflow everything.

Also check out any GI connections on the interconnect board as a lot of the time they are burnt.
 
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The interconnect boards on system 11s can cause all sorts of problems. A visual inspection should reveal any but reflowing pins, cleaning pins with 1200 grit wet and dry, and rebuilding burnt out connectors all helps

Those broken flashers might be associated with ceramic resistors (look like little white lego blocks) on the interconnect or power board.

Replacing/ reflowing the relevant resistors might help as they get very hot and fail over time.
 
New power supply board seems to have fixed the reset issue. Fitted it yesterday and we tested it for a good few hours with no resets. I also reflowed the CPU connector for good measure.

Guy seems happy now with new X-Pin display also fitted.

Only things wrong with it now:

A broken plastic which he has bought from an EBay seller in the U.S.

Two of the flashers in the backbox “topper” are not working. Replaced sockets and bulbs, reflowed pins on the pcb connector and tested all the transistors whilst I had the CPU board out - all tested good. Said the only thing left to try would be to reflow the solder on the Pin header on CPU board for the connectors for those flashers but by that time I was 5 hours in and had, had the cpu board out and back in twice already so said I would try that next time we have the board out (hopefully never!) but he seemed happy to live with that.
Ah glad to hear it. These old power supplies can be recovered but they do need work. They're all getting a bit geriatric now!!! ;)

When you say flashers in the backbox topper, do you mean the orange marquee lights at the top of the upper playfield? There's a separate board for those hidden in the upper back box behind the glass. The glass is another Banazi removal wierdo as well as you have to remove it from the sides. There are previous few references to the marquee lights in the documentation but it's definitely worth as DRD says reflowing those connections and checking the ceramic resistors will probably help there as well.

Fingers crossed it all gets working but it sounds like at least it's playing and enjoyable now!! " Go for the hill!"
 
Ah glad to hear it. These old power supplies can be recovered but they do need work. They're all getting a bit geriatric now!!! ;)

When you say flashers in the backbox topper, do you mean the orange marquee lights at the top of the upper playfield? There's a separate board for those hidden in the upper back box behind the glass. The glass is another Banazi removal wierdo as well as you have to remove it from the sides. There are previous few references to the marquee lights in the documentation but it's definitely worth as DRD says reflowing those connections and checking the ceramic resistors will probably help there as well.

Fingers crossed it all gets working but it sounds like at least it's playing and enjoyable now!! " Go for the hill!"
Hi,

Yes, I mean the orange lights. We got access to them via the sideways sliding glass (how scary was it pulling that out!). I got the PCB out and reflowed the solder on the header pins. But that was just a regular pcb light board (sure that’s not the correct term but you’ll know what I mean 😊) - didn’t see a connection to any other boards with ceramic resistors but wasn’t looking.

I think the guy is reasonably happy even with a couple of those lights out - it was better than before - so I won’t mention anything to him when I go back to rebuild some flippers for him at the weekend!

Cheers

Andy
 
It's a pig getting that glass out isn't it? Peculiar to Banzai I think. Not sure of any reason why some of the lights on that board aren't working though. Could be dodgy bulb holders? The info needed is pretty much missing in the BR documentation so you've just got to check through them systematically to see where the problem is. New bulbs and holders and a good clean is probably the best first bet.

Well flippers on BR is a job in itself with 6 to do and set up. Takes a while!!! Fliptronics springs help keep things crisp too as the Sys 11 coaxial springs aren't great and tend to break quite quickly.

Sounds like you're nearly there though now!
 
It's a pig getting that glass out isn't it? Peculiar to Banzai I think. Not sure of any reason why some of the lights on that board aren't working though. Could be dodgy bulb holders? The info needed is pretty much missing in the BR documentation so you've just got to check through them systematically to see where the problem is. New bulbs and holders and a good clean is probably the best first bet.

Well flippers on BR is a job in itself with 6 to do and set up. Takes a while!!! Fliptronics springs help keep things crisp too as the Sys 11 coaxial springs aren't great and tend to break quite quickly.

Sounds like you're nearly there though now!
Cheers.

Luckily the guy only asked me to buy 2 rebuild kits...only problem is they're for 2 of the flippers in the upper playfield so I just know those are going to be a nightmare to get set right!
 
Actually they're not too bad but as always you need three hands. Best way is to eyeball the flipper bat position with everything set up and hold it while lowering the UPF onto your forearm then you can nip it up gently and raise the UPF again to check the stop position. It's actually not too bad to do, sounds awkward but isn't too hard. A prop to hold the UPF off the LPF glass helps here too.

As always with everything Banzai on the UPF, make sure the safety pin is in the hinge/prop for the backbox lid!! No better way to crown yourself!
 
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