What's new
By:
Pinball info

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Pinball Rankings, Kind of Meaningless ?

DRD

DRD

Site Supporter
1 10 Years
Joined
Oct 26, 2014
Messages
5,633
Location
Newark
Our American cousins love rankings and love statistics.

Taking the rankings on ipdb, pinpedia and pinside today respectively:

Addams - 8, 4, 5
Twilight - 1, 1, 2

So I thought that these things kind of made sense as the correlation between the three sites is strong. And it is broadly consistent with my own experience - as these were my two favourite games.

I have been looking to add a couple of earlier pins to my modest collection. And I have been looking at the rankings and have come up with the conclusion that outside of the top 20, they are of very dubious worth.

For example, looking at a couple of other games that traded recently, taking the rankings on ipdb, pinpedia and pinside respectively:

Earthshaker (poor art, but a game I rate highly) - 82, 26, 51
Gorgar (a big seller in its day, but obviously a simpler game given its age) - 153, 34, 114
Bride of Pinbot (great art, but never a favourite game of mine) - 36, 20, 57

I reckon a truckload of salt and a high degree of scepticism is required
 
Go compare kinda style ranking perhaps? (without the crappy adverts)
Take into consideration all those different ranking systems and combine with a UK ranking as suggested by @replicas

Then the UK one filter by different aspects; Voted: gameplay, art, etc. Data - how many games played, how many are owned/in public? etc?

I'd be interested in helping out with something like this
 
It's worth noting that IPDB and Pinpedia have only 4 ratings categories giving a bit of a vague result, whereas Pinside has 16 categories, and you can alter your rating weightings depending on your preferences.

You only have to be sceptical of these charts if you don't believe the pinheads worldwide who have put the ratings in. All the user's ratings on pinside are publically visible and bogus ratings can be flagged - (I think anyone who rates all categories 10 for one machine is being ridiculous).

+1 for having a UK ratings system. A simple idea would be to just list your top 10 machines in order with a points system for ranking.
 
A truly fair ranking system would actually put pinball's in their rightful place, for example the much overrated Fun House, Addams Family, Twilight Zone, and Fish Tales would be somewhere at the 200+ junk end. Those games are the biggest piles of crap I've ever had the misfortune of playing (especially Fish Tales) and people are fooled into believing they are "desirable" and worth so much money due to their high ranking on IPDB. So many much better games are completely ignored and go for peanuts.
 
For any rankings system to work, it needs a good sample of data in the first place. I don't want to be a party pooper, but I do not think that a "UK Ranking" calculated on similar lines to the US ones would add much as there are so few of us who could contribute to it. How many guys have played Future Spa, or Banzai Run, or Spectrum in the past couple of years ?

For all their limitations, the IPDB, Pinpedia and Pinside ratings at least have a decent number of reviews:

Twilight 640, 431, 1,564
Addams 463, 264, 1,338
Earthshaker 82, 68, 271
Gorgar 90, 52, 192
Bride of Pinbot 182, 140, 470

You have all manner of issues to contend with:

What weightings you use - gameplay v art etc (in a pub art is almost irrelevant, in your games room it is very relevant)
How do you compare a Gorgar to a Twilight Zone (given the technology differences between the games)
How do you compare a childhood game (last time I played Spectrum was in 1987) to a LOTR (made in 2003)

If folk want to do a UK ranking, one suggestion I would make would be to get the attendees at a pinball event to rank the games that they actually play on that day - ie UK Pinball Party. This would give a fair sample of data, gained simultaneously (so faded memories would not play such a part - "Medusa was my first pin, no game can ever touch it" etc), data would be cheap to obtain (simple questionnaire on the day)

A "marshall" would have to make sure that the games actually played properly (or at least had adequate flippers) in the first place as this would trash the result on a damaged machine

To encourage folk to get some rarer beasts out, how about having a prize or article for "most under-rated games" where the "UK Real Rating" showed most improvement against the US Pinside rating ? ie Popeye Saves is a lowly 265 on Pinside.

If folk wanted to sell a lowly rated (cheaper) game, what better way than on the back of great reviews at the event ? Or if folk always thought that their (Popeye, Teenage Mutant Ninja, Gilligan's Island .....) was under-rated, bring it along and prove it !
 
There isn't a US only chart, Pinside for example is Dutch, although it appears to have been overrun by the Yanks.

If ratings were restricted to users who had owned the games it would be much more accurate, you can't usually hear the sound at a show, unless the volume is cranked up way higher than the machines around it.

And ratings of machines with unfinished code should be discounted, though that could be a while for modern Sterns ;).
 
If you're going on ranking place to judge a game then more the fool you are, although it can be said that they are perhaps more of a popularity pol. However, what is very useful is the reviews that people give a game so it's pretty easy to sift out the biased reviews and then form an opinion on the game based on the remaining reviews.

TBH I don't think adding a UK rankings to the mix is going to change anything... :eek:

I for one have played all the games listed by DRD in the last couple of years.

Oh and it also depends on how good a player you are (and how long you have a machine for) to sometimes get the best out of a machine which again influences peoples opinion of a machine.
 
Do you know the most important ranking system? Your own!
Click to expand...

+1 this is exactly it :thumbs:

A truly fair ranking system would actually put pinball's in their rightful place, for example the much overrated Fun House, Addams Family, Twilight Zone, and Fish Tales would be somewhere at the 200+ junk end.
Click to expand...

And this is exactly why rankings are meaningless, the great thing about pinball is everyone likes something different :D TAF is probably my favourite game ever made and I really like FT too. Everyone likes what they like and that's what makes the hobby great. Think how boring the shows would be if everyone had the same sort of collections....there'd be no Gottlieb row like at NLP this year if we all went on rankings :)
 
They're a bit meaningless - the latest pin always near the top, but they're still quite fun - it'd be good to have one on here if we could :-)
 
I wouldn't bother with another rating system and this thread shows why. We all rate things on different contents, how it looks, how it plays, a certain shot, the calls out etc.
Some people might be influenced by these rating systems but as so many collectors change their machines regularly or head to meets and shows, I think we are chosing based on the machines we have enjoyed playing or a rare title we fancy owning for a while.
Newbies might buy based on ratings and I hope that makes them happy.

No regrets at buying TAF, never cared about it being in a list, I bought it because I remember enjoying playing one and like the theme.
 
I agree that the best ratings system is your own, but what if you haven't played a game and want to know what it's like?

I admit I am influenced by reviews and ratings, I guess I am still a bit off a newbie as I haven't been to many shows or meets so there's a lot of games out there I haven't played.

I played TZ and BSD when they first came out and wasn't that impressed, but after reading reviews from home owners thought I would give them a try, and I wasn't disappointed.

But if the rankings are meaningless then instead of TZ and AFM I might have bought Popeye and Gilligans Island. Maybe I am wrong, I haven't played these games, it could turn out that I like them more, but if 9/10 people tell me TZ is great, and 9/10 tell me that GI is a pile of poo, that will influence my decisions.
 
Best way is to ask people for their personal top 10 and then do something based around that.

Strangely, not easy to implement. Gimme the Christmas break to think that one over... :D
 
Paul said:
Best way is to ask people for their personal top 10 and then do something based around that.

Strangely, not easy to implement. Gimme the Christmas break to think that one over... :D
Click to expand...
1. Popeye
2. Popeye
3. Popeye
4. Popeye
5. Popeye
6. Popeye
7. Popeye
8. Popeye
9. Popeye
10. Baywatch

[emoji6]
 
Hi Guys
I have just lost 10mins of my life reading this meaningless thread, come on lads stuff the ratings and play/buy what you like
we bash this one to death .....one mans grail is another mans pile of poo .... and as for that damm popeye... I like it:rofl:
 
windoesnot said:
Do you know the most important ranking system? Your own!
Click to expand...

This. The only ranking system I've truly used to rate a pinball is the one in my head (when I can find it amongst all the chaos).

Having said that though the ranking is influenced not only by memories of the machines I remember playing back in the day, but by those I play today at shows, in the League and around the homes of the friends I've made (the only reviewers that I really pay attention to anyway).

I'd be interested in seeing all time top ten list from individual people on here though. Maybe a thread for the same so that people can edit their list as opinion changes over time would be simplest?
 
I'm past caring about ranking and ratings... when i'm interested in getting a pin i play it in the wild or failing that TPA... or just watch hours and hours and hours of gameplay videos on Youtube!
 
You need to take any ranking system with a pinch of salt - but it also depends on what day you check them.
Quite a few years ago I started a spreadsheet with the games I'd owned/borrowed & one of the things I included was the IPDB ranking not sure why, but kept it going ...anyway I've been lent the same DESW 3 times this year & it's ranking has changed considerably - in Feb it was at 47, in June 64 & in Sept 74 (personally think it should be ranked a lot worse than that still).

I agree with very few of the ranking places on IPDB of the machines I've had at home over the years - I only keep looking 'cause I started doing this spreadsheet years ago.

Regards,
Dan.
 
I think rankings/ratings get pear shaped the further you get outside say, the top 10, suddenly you go from from a narrow spectrum of 'everyone loves TAF' to 'Gilligans Island is the best ever' and things spread out exponentially. Outside top 10 become meaningless.
 
Rankings are useful to get a very rough idea about games you've never played but I wouldn't rely on them. Pinside is way too influenced by the machines people own and their desire to talk them up to preserve their value rather than any real objectivity.

Take TWD, if I'm being honest at the moment it's OK and has potential but the poor code makes it pretty boring compared to say AC/DC but you wouldn't guess that from some of the reviews. Did anyone truly rate WOZ as a top 10 machine in the first 6 months when the code was frankly ****e? According to some owners it was the second coming from day one.


Anyone dare give an honest review of a machine they've currently got that they think is a turd? I can think of a couple in my collection that are, cough, an acquired taste. :oops:

What about a top 3 list of crap machines you've owned. Think Stargate would top that one for me
 
i just found another place with ratings - the top 50 at treasure cove (i'd never been to this site before, thanks @replicas for the recommendation for stickers) is based on these criteria:

Top "Fun to Play" Pinball Machines:
www.treasure_cove.net_images_bullet1.gif Every year, we pose a question to the pinball enthusiasts on the rec.games.pinball newsgroup.


www.treasure_cove.net_images_bullet1.gif The Scenario: Your are setting up a family game room to be enjoyed by both children and adults alike. You have two kids, .. a boy and a girl, ages 12 & 14. Frequently you invite family & friends over on weekends. And you have room for 5 pinball machines for everyone's enjoyment.

www.treasure_cove.net_images_bullet1.gif The Question: Which five pinball machines would you purchase? Please list them in order. .. ie the 1st game being 'most fun', ... 5th game being the least fun.

www.treasure_cove.net_images_bullet1.gif The Results: I did the points this way: 5pts - 1st game, 4 pts - 2nd game, 3 pts - 3rd game, 2 pts - 4th game, and 1point for the 5th game.

Here it is - http://www.treasure-cove.net/TOP50.htm

no major surprises in there for me, except to see Stargate in the list.
i've played them all in that list except for BBB, which i suspect is only in the list because of its value, as i know lots of other people who also never played one.
 
Don't be surprised about Stargate, it really is an excellent game with lots of modes. I owned 2 for a long time! When it first arrived at SWL people were saying why on earth have you bought that rubbish game... then they learn't what to do and got to know the game more. When I sold them both, people asked why one earth did you sell such an excellent game...! :cool: The truth is I was made very good offers for both games and could have sold them twice over. They are very critical in being set up correctly though, half a degree out and it made the game pretty much unplayable. :eek:
 
Yeah, screw the system. Make friends, join a league, go to the awesome shows this country puts on and make you own choice.
Don't be spoon fed the lies they tell you. We don't need to be slim and pretty, ugly fat bastards are welcome.
 
Pinside top 100 is merely an ego ranking. Too much invested money/ego means myths are self sustaining.

My mediocre review of MM was, if if by magic, deleted. It's not my sort of game, I don't like the art so why should I not be able to give it 6.5/10. Obviously in the world of Pinside, that is not allowed.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom