New EU Tariffs push pinball prices up 25%

steve brum

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Arent the tarifs supposed to be on goods readily available new and made in europe? Yep the pinball capital of the world. How many big lebroskis rolled off the line last year? Can 2020 get any worse
 

myPinballs

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I’ve always been a ‘glass half empty’ kind of guy.
I knew it was too early to start sucking each other’s dicks ref Jan 1st 🙄
Say what now??

But on a serious note, i don't understand why anyone would think jan 1st is the answer to anything other than alot more pain, seeing as airbus is a partnership with 4 countries the UK being one of them... I would be very happy to be proved wrong...
 

CHRIS B PINBALLS

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It’s going to be very interesting for next year
To be honest I think some people will pay the extra anyway in 2007 sm was a mere £3600 nib it already gone up massively in 13 years tron le was £5500 nib so the le has nearly doubled in this time and people still buy them take Beatles yes it not sold well but it has sold even with a stupid price tag
I think prices may increase on used pins particularly the later tv screen sterns but who knows I don’t think will see anything resolved till July next year and it may not be what the uk pin head wants or the scotch whisky drinking yank wants
 

Marble Madness

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I’m no legal expert by any means but what about stern opening a UK or European arm to their business. Yes I’m sure they’d potentially still get hit with the charge but that would be at their cost price so pull down the overall price. Assemble a small amount of parts over here and then class as made in the UK 😳 again don’t shoot me down if there are holes wider than the Grand Canyon in the thought 😂
 

Sako-TRG

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Yeah.....Sterns just an assembly line really.....
Thought one of the reasons Stern and JJP are located in Illinois is to acquire the parts from the suppliers more easily.
If the parts are shipped into the UK to be assembled the parts will be subjected to the tariffs.
Not sure it would be plausible to find companies to manufacture some of these parts locally then coupled with line labour at our minimum wage. Too expensive.
Who knows....., if it did happen, more likely to be Europe for larger market - Germany maybe 🤷‍♂️
 

Wizcat

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Isn't the thing with falling back to WTO (or however they're spinning it 'global tariffs' whatever) that we lose control? If we want to make changes to our tarrifs under WTO rules, then all 160 WTO countries have to approve those changes.

The Reuters article mentions how we'd have to make a case with the WTO for adding the 25% on. But, the tariff schedules we've applied for are still zero at the time of writing : https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/uk-goods-and-services-schedules-at-the-wto
 

Sven Normansson

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I’m no legal expert by any means but what about stern opening a UK or European arm to their business. Yes I’m sure they’d potentially still get hit with the charge but that would be at their cost price so pull down the overall price. Assemble a small amount of parts over here and then class as made in the UK 😳 again don’t shoot me down if there are holes wider than the Grand Canyon in the thought 😂
its CKD (Completely Knocked Down) I think they closed that loophole years ago. This was how japanese cars were viable in europe.
 
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Neil McRae

Neil McRae

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Interesting article and it seems unsurprisingly this latest tarrif is being used as another pawn in a greater trade deal battle with the US. Important note that Airbus concerns don’t disappear on 1st Jan for Uk as we are part of a 4 country partnership

Quote from article :


Legal experts say the issue may test complex theories over the responsibilities of states in international law. Britain is both a departing member of the EU and, separately, one of four partner nations to Airbus alongside France, Germany and Spain.

Britain is expected to argue that it inherited the right to impose tariffs under rules of state succession, because it suffered harm from the U.S. subsidies covered by the case.”

don't forget though the US market is equally important to the UK as well as airbus, in-fact US probably more important given Rolls Royce have 40% market share of Boeing engines and Boeing has well over 55% of the large airliner market. This is what the anti Brexit folks don't get, they think trade is so simple when in fact its super complex.

WTO approved the EU tariffs that we have now so approving it for the UK likely a paperwork exercise.

I doubt anything is going to change quick on this whether we are affected or not. This disagreement started back in 2005. We can only hope we are not affected post 2021.

I'm not so sure that Stern or JJP won't react. Lets guess EU is 1/3 of the market. Thats a significant volume reduction in an industry were there are high fixed costs, limited ability to manage working capital and production line is so sequenced (esp for Stern). They have a few choices, take the cut on demand and hit a big price rise on ROW games - personally cant see that. Apply an increased ROW price rise to enable the reduction in price to the EU bound stock or take a price reduction to games shipped to the EU. Of all of these the latter looks the most likely, at least for Stern.
 

Calimori

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This is what the anti Brexit folks don't get, they think trade is so simple when in fact its super complex.
Read that again @Neil McRae. Did you really want to say that not a single person who was opposed to the idea of Brexit can understand trade? If you did intend to say that, this speaks volumes of yourself not the people opposed to Brexit.
Be factual or be free to voice an opinion but be careful when you think your opinion is a fact.
 
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Neil McRae

Neil McRae

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as with everything price is set by demand. The demand for new games across Europe with this tariff just died. I've no intention of buying any new games that are 25% higher.

I've been able to confirm that any game shipped prior to this tariff kicking in into the EU is exempt from the tariff. So pricing on games before 2016 probably not a significant change, but newer games released in the last few years - prices just went up. Those of you selling anyhing you bought in the last three years should hold on, as the reality of this kicks in people will want those games more, I suspect 10-15%, so games like Elvira, B66, Avengers, maybe even Star Wars and munsters became more valuable or maybe stay closer to their NIB price, some higher.

Neil.
 
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Neil McRae

Neil McRae

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Read that again @Neil McRae. Did you really want to say that not a single person who was opposed to the idea of Brexit can understand trade? If you did intend to say that, this speaks volumes of yourself not the people opposed to Brexit.
Be factual or be free to voice an opinion but be careful when you think your opinion is a fact.

lol, I use those posts to flush out people I want to play poker with :D :D :D

but 99% of people who say Brexit is bad for trade don't have a clue. I voted to stay but Brexit will be good for trade overall as it will allow the UK to fix its manufactured deficit with the rest of the EU.
 

huggers

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as with everything price is set by demand. The demand for new games across Europe with this tariff just died. I've no intention of buying any new games that are 25% higher.

I've been able to confirm that any game shipped prior to this tariff kicking in into the EU is exempt from the tariff. So pricing on games before 2016 probably not a significant change, but newer games released in the last few years - prices just went up. Those of you selling anyhing you bought in the last three years should hold on, as the reality of this kicks in people will want those games more, I suspect 10-15%, so games like Elvira, B66, Avengers, maybe even Star Wars and munsters became more valuable or maybe stay closer to their NIB price, some higher.

Neil.
I have no idea if this is accurate or not but what you're saying is my J-Park might hold value a bit better than perhaps it would have?
 
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James

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After reading politics and economics as my undergraduate (and my A levels), let me tell you I am in NO WAY qualified to comment on the current politicial and economic situation. Genuinely, we are all just guessing.

as with everything price is set by demand.

Price is a factor of the equilibrium between supply over time and demand over time. A tariff moves the demand schedule to a new equilibrium through changing price. The price is a number, demand is where the decision is based.

@Neil McRae he has in my opinion largely nailed elements of the argument.

The US market is just as valuable as the EU market to the UK and with the protacted arguments on both sides, the UK could duck either side as it has interest in both elements.

The WTO has to ratify the legal ramifications of such tariffs, as is the way of the world, these take time to resolve, I think the EU sanctions against the US started work in February, it took until November to be agreed. It could just be a paperwork excercise, or with challenges it could take months.

The situtation today is set out. The UK leaves the EU on January 1st, where tariffs will be 0%. To speculate and make business decisions on one outlets story, based on an unofficial source not willing to go on record and not reported by any other mainstream media source (the EU tariff going to the WTO was reported widely way back when) is a nonsense.

As the callout on LOTR goes, "get a hold of yourself man". Plan for what we know, deal with the other when we must.
 
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Calimori

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I know you like to put a fire under things for fun, I am trying to work out of if you always know you doing it or it just happens accidentally.
As the UK are still unsure what our trade agreement with the EU will be and as the UK do not have matching size trade agreements in the bag (singular or aggregate), I suspect 87.4%* of pro Brexit supporters have nothing other but uniformed opinion too.

*all % quoted about what pro and anti Brexit supporter think is completely made up as no one ever asked them all.
 

johnwhitfield

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I wouldn’t stress too much. The government have spunked a fortune on their latest “get ready for Brexit” adverts over the last couple of months. Just a bit of a shame that they overlooked telling businesses exactly what to get ready for.
 
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Neil McRae

Neil McRae

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I wouldn’t stress too much. The government have spunked a fortune on their latest “get ready for Brexit” adverts over the last couple of months. Just a bit of a shame that they overlooked telling businesses exactly what to get ready for.

that isn't true, government have been clear; we have a bunch of new systems and system changes al ready for 1st of Jan. Some things not quite there yet but nothing that will cause any big issues.
 

CHRIS B PINBALLS

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I watched the latest stern distributor webinar for the pin very boring but Gary was already on with lawyers to get on this but he did say it’s going to take some time
I know there is still a marked even at 25% more although much more limited it all evens its self out when it comes back on the market second hand
The problem is the insecurity of the market that if you do pay the 25% increase then the tariff gets scrapped you have lost a hell of a lot
We wouldn’t normally see the next stern till February over here anyway and from what I hear it’s no great title anyway but it’s a sad state for people waiting on Rick and morty and gnr
There is no chance of a pinball manufacturer sucking up the 25% tariff I doubt these is 25% profit in them anyway
 
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Neil McRae

Neil McRae

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I know you like to put a fire under things for fun, I am trying to work out of if you always know you doing it or it just happens accidentally.
As the UK are still unsure what our trade agreement with the EU will be and as the UK do not have matching size trade agreements in the bag (singular or aggregate), I suspect 87.4%* of pro Brexit supporters have nothing other but uniformed opinion too.

*all % quoted about what pro and anti Brexit supporter think is completely made up as no one ever asked them all.
LOL, oh its always deliberate :D :D :D

Just remember, the EU sells a lot more to the UK than the other way! - the rest of the world not the case, so which trade deals would you be worried about most?
 
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Neil McRae

Neil McRae

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I watched the latest stern distributor webinar for the pin very boring but Gary was already on with lawyers to get on this but he did say it’s going to take some time
I know there is still a marked even at 25% more although much more limited it all evens its self out when it comes back on the market second hand
The problem is the insecurity of the market that if you do pay the 25% increase then the tariff gets scrapped you have lost a hell of a lot
We wouldn’t normally see the next stern till February over here anyway and from what I hear it’s no great title anyway but it’s a sad state for people waiting on Rick and morty and gnr
There is no chance of a pinball manufacturer sucking up the 25% tariff I doubt these is 25% profit in them anyway

I agree Chris I doubt they will suck up 25%, but maybe 10-15 - I can see that. Rumour cost of an LE to Stern is 3500-4000USD - but what isn't well understood is how Stern is leveraged.
 

CHRIS B PINBALLS

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that isn't true, government have been clear; we have a bunch of new systems and system changes al ready for 1st of Jan. Some things not quite there yet but nothing that will cause any big issues.
I would love to think this is true Neil
But I suspect for the first month no one will have a ****ing clue what’s going on
I am fed up with hmrc sending me letters telling me to get ready for brexit and get my different vat no lots of bull**** to fill in just to get 3 zeros added to my vat no
On a more positive note still not had to pay anything extra I have shipped from the USA
 
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CHRIS B PINBALLS

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I agree Chris I doubt they will suck up 25%, but maybe 10-15 - I can see that. Rumour cost of an LE to Stern is 3500-4000USD - but what isn't well understood is how Stern is leveraged.
I suspect the premium and le reap major profits over the pro and yes Neil I suspect the eu market is about a third or maybe even more
 

Sako-TRG

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Used prices wont inflate overnight.
People getting a bit carried away...
I guess if after Jan 1st we are sucking up 25% then maybe 6 months in - July 2021 used prices may start to rise but only IF there’s no tariff resolution likely on the horizon.