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Multiple bulbs lighting on my Whitewater

R

RichS

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Mar 17, 2022
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Hello to everyone. I am new on here and hope I have posted in the correct section.
Sadly last year my younger brother died from Covid related problems. it was a shock to the whole family and made me realise just how short and unpredictable life is. He dabbled with pinball machines and one arm bandits all his life and in his will he left me 2 pintables., an Bally 8 ball Deluxe and a Williams Whitewater . The 8 Ball is amazing considering how old it is especially the speech It is fully working but could do with a clean. The Whitewater is also working and plays well however there are quite a few bulbs that are lighting together when playing the game or in the test mode.

I am a computer hardware Engineer by trade so I can consider myself a little technical. I have the manual and schematic and have seen the Lamp Matrix and it seems some the lamps that are lighting together may of may not be in the same row of column, it seems random Looking at all the paperwork it seems my brother Edward had replaced the main Computer board the Ribbon Cables and the big Power driver board for new replacements. The computer board has Pinled written on it and the big board says Rottendog. One bulb lighting is from say row 2 column 5 and the other bulb will be from a totally different column and row/. It does not stop the game but does spoil it. I would like to get it right Sorry I forgot to mention it has LEDS all over it but I know some LED's still glow sometimes so I have changed them for normal bulbs and it still happens. I am wondering if it is shorted diodes somewhere? Any advice would be very welcome. Thank you in advance . Richard
 
Hi Richard,
I'm sure someone else on here will correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember reading somewhere that Rottendog power driver boards had a bit of a reputation for ghosting. My own TAF machine (WPC based - like yours) has significant issues where I can see lights from other rows/columns lighting up when they shouldn't do.
So, my guess would be that this is down to the power driver board on your machine too.
 
Ragnar1057 said:
Hi Richard,
I'm sure someone else on here will correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember reading somewhere that Rottendog power driver boards had a bit of a reputation for ghosting. My own TAF machine (WPC based - like yours) has significant issues where I can see lights from other rows/columns lighting up when they shouldn't do.
So, my guess would be that this is down to the power driver board on your machine too.
Click to expand...
Hello there and thank you for your reply. I heard the same about Rottendog boards after looking on the American sites but I have tried a couple of non ghosting leds and it made no difference and also I have put normal bulbs in and it is still the same. I does not affect the game play but is very annoying!
 
homepinballrepair.com

Pinball Lamp Matrix - Theory and Troubleshooting -

Your pinball lamp matrix acting up - Multiple lamps turning on when only one should - one lamp stays on? This is how to fix it.
homepinballrepair.com homepinballrepair.com

Sorry to hear about your brother. It looks like you are taking up his passion and i am sure the bug will bite.

You are correct with shorted diodes.

Take a look here as this explains lamp matrices really well. Plus you will find the video at the end really useful for diagnosing which diodes need replacing.

Paul
 
Welcome Rich. You’re in the right place for techie help. Lots of really knowledgeable people here.

I was really sorry to read of your brother’s passing.
 
I had a the same on my wh20. Took me ages to trace the faulty diode but typically it was one of the insert lamps on the upper playfield which was a royal pain in asssss to get to. I’m sure there is a more scientific way to tell which ones at fault by listing the lamps which come on but failing that get a multimeter on diode test and painstakingly go through them all 🙈.
 
pretty sure it’s a shorted or faulty diode. print out the lamp matrix and using lamp test mark off which ones are coming on at the wrong time. then it’s easier to find the duff one
 
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Hello, Rich,

White Water has a 'Single Lamp' test, where only one location of the lamp matrix (which may be more than one lamp, or one spot on the machine) should light at a time. Along with a chart of the lamp matrix, this may help to see what locations are affected, and how, e.g. between columns or between rows. I don't recall it having the ability to illuminate an entire row or column for test purposes, though.

Apart from faulty diodes, damaged wiring can cause lamp problems. I saw a problem on a Terminator 2, which had some of the bonus multiplier lamps faintly lit much of the time. Caused by the short length of wiring for its two 'Skull Eyes' lamps shorting on the ball popper wireform, as unplugging this showed.
 
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Ragnar1057 said:
Hi Richard,
I'm sure someone else on here will correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember reading somewhere that Rottendog power driver boards had a bit of a reputation for ghosting. My own TAF machine (WPC based - like yours) has significant issues where I can see lights from other rows/columns lighting up when they shouldn't do.
So, my guess would be that this is down to the power driver board on your machine too.
Click to expand...
It’s the Pinled power driver boards that don’t like LED’s. One in my AFM did this, RD’s are ok.

PinLED
”ATTENTION: Our boards works fine in pinballs where normal light bulbs are installed. When LED lamps are used, ghosting of the controlled lamps may occur. The general lighting is not affected by this.”
 
If a single lamp lights another lamp on a completely differnet row and column, then there may be a short at another lamp. Imagine the two lit lamps as opposite corners of a square on the lamp matrix list. The most likely position for a short is at one of the other two unlit corners.
 
My JD had a short where someone had found a connector in the back box and just shoved it on the driver board. I'd check the manual as that says what connectors should be on there and see if there's an extra one connected that's not supposed to be there.
 
Judge Dredd did have a redundant connector drifting about, with lamp wire colours in it. I wondered if at one stage in the development there were lamps on the display panel, or the backbox insert panel.

And I've heard of lamp problems caused by the wiring for lamps in the cabinet (usually just the Start button, on White Water and similar age games). The lamp wiring has a small connector just to supply up to 2 columns to the cabinet, while row wiring to the cabinet uses a full-sized connector. In that case, the row wire for Start button had ended up connected to the unused pin in the small connector, causing interference between the two columns, on every row.
 
Well guys thank you for your help with my Whitewater. I had a day off today and was determined to find the lamp problem. Sadly it seems it is what you call Ghosting on some, not all the LEDS that have been fitted. As soon as I put normal bulbs in it the problem goes I think the leds that were fitted by my brother Ed were called non ghosting as I found a receipt in the box of paperwork that came with the machines Correct me if I am wrong but it seems non-ghosting LED's just have resistors fitted in the leads I am wondering if I can increase the values of the resistors to stop the ghosting on the affected LEDS? It would be a shame to not use the LED's as they look so much better and brighter than normal bulbs
 
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