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More TZ problems

R

Reg

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Joined
Feb 23, 2020
Messages
22
Location
Uk
Hi All, another issue with the TZ.


The ball is rolling past the skill shot switches...into the hole....at that point the machine awards a door, then it kicks the ball out of the slot kickout. The ball also got stuck on the wire ramp and didn't release upon a skill shot. The machine has recently had some repairs to the board so I am trying to find out what could now be the problem.

Thanks in advance.
 
Sounds like the first switch being activated is in the slot machine. Test the other switches on the way to the slot machine kick out from the skill shot hole and see what isn't working.
 
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What do you mean by " The ball also got stuck on the wire ramp and didn't release upon a skill shot"? If you mean the wire ramp to the mini playfield you probably have an issue with the opto behind the clock at the ramp entry. Is the pin complaining about any switches on entering test mode? Credit dot?
On skill shot: Are the skill shot switches working? Think there are no other switches between the skill shot hole and the slot machine, the pin recognizes the skill shot switches being activated and then slot machine.
 
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Thanks both, this afternoon I'll be exploring a bit more. There are no actual errors being shown, everything else looks ok.
 
I own a TZ and a TAF.

You should go into switch test and see whether the 3x skill shot microswitches are working correctly

I am afraid TZ is one of the most mechanically complex pinball machines ever made. It has all manner of sensitive mechs. Running the ceramic and steel balls makes it incredibly hard to set up properly.

Niggles with the game are 100% to be expected.

The best way to fix a TZ is to sell it and buy a TAF. If you squint a bit, they are very similar games
 
Have to admit I got a little ticked off having to twiddle mine all the time. (Though I didnt strip it and rebuild it or anything... ). That pesky clock :)

Loved it when it was working right though.
 
Yes, the clock is iffy, especially with the original boards and incandescent lighting. Once you have it on LED it is very solid though, all readily availble parts.
 
In fairness I have had two, this one has needed a couple of bits and bobs but generally good. The lower/centre/upper switches aren't showing anything on the test menu. I have checked plugs J206 and J208. Only weird thing is J208 was labelled 'J209' on the plug, but the guy who removed the board labelled the cable '208'...so that's where it has gone back in. Manual says J209 is not used?

The CPU board has been in for repair, and these issues weren't there before so I am not sure if it's the repair itself or just bad luck somewhere?
 
J207 and J209 are unused on mine

What you have described is logcal as none of the skill shot switches are being triggered on the plunge and that is confusing the slot machine into making a door award

Sorry, but I don't know how much you know about these things, so forgive me if I am stating the obvious.

The dead switches all sit on column 6 of the switch matrix. Page 10 on the attached link. Try the other switches on this column to isolate where the problem is. If they are all dead - that suggests failed connector and or header pin problem. Or worse, board fault.


If you are lucky the daisy chain itself will have failed below the playfield and you will have a simply have a broken joint on one of the microswitches - so there will be a loose wire in need of a home.

Come back with intel ...
 
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You can short the column and row pins on the CPU board while you have switch test going to see if the issue is on the board or in the cable. Remove column and row plugs and then use a cable. Once you have established that column 6 works or not on board we continue.
I.e. connect J206 pin 6 to J208 pin 1, should give you lower skill.
 
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DRD said:
J207 and J209 are unused on mine

What you have described is logcal as none of the skill shot switches are being triggered on the plunge and that is confusing the slot machine into making a door award

Sorry, but I don't know how much you know about these things, so forgive me if I am stating the obvious.

The dead switches all sit on column 6 of the switch matrix. Page 10 on the attached link. Try the other switches on this column to isolate where the problem is. If they are all dead - that suggests failed connector and or header pin problem. Or worse, board fault.


If you are lucky the daisy chain itself will have failed below the playfield and you will have a simply have a broken joint on one of the microswitches - so there will be a loose wire in need of a home.

Come back with intel ...
Click to expand...
Thanks for this. I am sort of thinking this could be a fault with the board still, despite the repair. Looking at the manual I came to the same conclusion. I don't know that much about them but that's why I got someone in, however I have a long background in electronics and controls, just not the time to mess with things. I'll more in column 6. 'Power payoff' is in there, is that when the ball exits through the top and you are awarded the bonus. If so, That works in gameplay. I'll check everything again for sure.
 
Power Payoff are the two red round targets right of the piano entrance.
 
Hello, Reg,

Looking at the switch location chart, page 2-51, the rest of Column 6 consists of all the spot targets (Power Payoff and 5 Million) facing the upper flipper, and the one alongside the Slot Machine scoop. Six locations in all, since one of the 'nodes' in the switch matrix has two targets.
 
Some more info.

So all the switches in that column are not working. Tested; upper right 5 million, power payoff (x2), middle right 5 million 1 and 2, lower right 5 million. It was suggested by the guy who carried out the repair to the board that I damaged a connector re-installing the board :rolleyes: there is no obvious damage and all the wires are tight. Before the board was 'repaired' there had never been an issue with these switches, it was suffering from the bumper switches not working which is what brought about the service in the first place.

DRD said:
You can short the column and row pins on the CPU board while you have switch test going to see if the issue is on the board or in the cable. Remove column and row plugs and then use a cable. Once you have established that column 6 works or not on board we continue.
I.e. connect J206 pin 5 to J205 pin 1, should give you lower skill.
Click to expand...

Looking at this (and thanks for the advice) am I correct in thinking that J205 pin 1 is GND and J206 pin 5 is the switch? I am trying to decipher the switch matrix in the manual. It states column 6 Green-Blue lower/centre/upper are pins 1/2/3. Not sure I am correct on interpreting it correctly as I am a bit green at the mo.

But, progress nonetheless. Cheers guys!
 
Hi Reg,
when you look at the switch matrix in the manual, you'll see cable colour, plug and pin as well as driver chip and pin. So looking at column six you see J206-6, i.e. pin6 on plug J206, cable colour green-blue. Now Lower Skill is in Row 1, that is white-brown, J208-1. You can now short J208-1 and J206-6 in switch test to see if you get Lower Skill. If you get nothing doing this something on the board is shot. You will need a logic tester or scope to progress from here (or just change U20). If it works, green-blue is interrupted somewhere. Happy to look at the board for you, if needed. Where in UK are you?
 
drhex said:
Hi Reg,
when you look at the switch matrix in the manual, you'll see cable colour, plug and pin as well as driver chip and pin. So looking at column six you see J206-6, i.e. pin6 on plug J206, cable colour green-blue. Now Lower Skill is in Row 1, that is white-brown, J208-1. You can now short J208-1 and J206-6 in switch test to see if you get Lower Skill. If you get nothing doing this something on the board is shot. You will need a logic tester or scope to progress from here (or just change U20). If it works, green-blue is interrupted somewhere. Happy to look at the board for you, if needed. Where in UK are you?
Click to expand...
Got it, yes that makes sense. I'm just south of Oxford, let's see what the tests show up, I would be quite stuck without the advice on here. Thanks again!
 
In Bourne End myself, so about an hour away - can arrange a visit if push comes to shove.
 
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drhex said:
In Bourne End myself, so about an hour away - can arrange a visit if push comes to shove.
Click to expand...
The test shorting the pins J208-1 and J206-6 shows ok.

Is it a case now to short J206-6 (green-blue) to J208-2/3/etc?
 
I.e. you get a switch shown on connecting the pins? You can obviously try the other switches this way for fun & games but if one in the column works the column is OK on the board.
Next thing is to find the first switch in the column on the playfield, most likely 64, upper right 5M and measure continuity from there to J206-6. Also check, if the cable is seated in the plug properly. There should be a break here somewhere, usually the cable will have broken off a switch.
 
drhex said:
I.e. you get a switch shown on connecting the pins? You can obviously try the other switches this way for fun & games but if one in the column works the column is OK on the board.
Next thing is to find the first switch in the column on the playfield, most likely 64, upper right 5M and measure continuity from there to J206-6. Also check, if the cable is seated in the plug properly. There should be a break here somewhere, usually the cable will have broken off a switch.
Click to expand...
Yes, exactly, it shows a switch when the pins are connected. I'll check out the playfield. Thanks!

Just for my own understanding shorting J206-6 (green-blue) to J208-2/3/etc? is the correct way to test all the switches in that column?
 
For direct testing, yes. This will only work with one switch at a time due to no diode, but that shouldn't impact what we're doing here. Any findings on green-blue?
 
drhex said:
For direct testing, yes. This will only work with one switch at a time due to no diode, but that shouldn't impact what we're doing here. Any findings on green-blue?
Click to expand...
I'll spend tomorrow am on this one, check the continuity between the switch and plug 👍
 
drhex said:
For direct testing, yes. This will only work with one switch at a time due to no diode, but that shouldn't impact what we're doing here. Any findings on green-blue?
Click to expand...
drhex....you are a star, the update as I messed with the machine yesterday then was off out so no time to update.

I went through all the pins and as you suggested they were all ok. Tested continuity from the switch to the plug and it was all ok. The plug isn't loose, but isn't exactly tight......used some isopropyl on the pins and plug then pushed all the wires in at the top, although nothing obviously wrong. Anyway, back to the switch test and the targets work, the lane switches work! No idea if it was the wire or the plug or sheer luck?

Is it worth replacing the plug to avoid this in the future or just leave it alone 🤔

But, many thanks for guiding me through this one....a working TZ again....amazing!
 
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Good thing it works again. Would leave the plug alone if it doesn’t reoccur
 
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I think you have 2 options ....

1. Sell this second before it breaks down again. Buy a TAF.

2. I'm sorry to contradict @drhex , but if you have the tools and confidence - I would recommend you replace that connector with a crimp style one.

Several push type connectors have failed on my tz. You wiggle them. They work for hours, days, months ..... but they invariably fail again
 
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DRD said:
I think you have 2 options ....

1. Sell this second before it breaks down again. Buy a TAF.

2. I'm sorry to contradict @drhex , but if you have the tools and confidence - I would recommend you replace that connector with a crimp style one.

Several push type connectors have failed on my tz. You wiggle them. They work for hours, days, months ..... but they invariably fail again
Click to expand...
Hi,

I have some tools and will now be ordering a few more 👍

It's a game I'll never sell TBH. Although it's nowhere near as bad as my old STTNG, that was a total faff and needed loads of TLC. Heading up to Tilt soon, see if any modern games take my fancy. The recent Stern ones I tried in the US I really wasn't fond of and TZ 'feels' a lot nicer to use. The previous TZ was very good, but that was 15 years ago and none of these games are getting any newer I suppose.

Thanks all for the help.
 
IDC for low voltage connectors will hold up forever if you don’t pull the plugs off by the wires. I have seen (and repaired) way more badly crimped replacements including wrongly pinned ones without keying etc. than the other way round. Most people don’t want to shell out the money for a proper crimp tool (£££) and do an half ****d job incl soldering and then wonder why it doesn’t work. Much cheaper to buy a hand IDC tool and reseat the offending cable. If that doesn’t do it, you can still replace.
 
@Reg Please figure out what the fault really is before changing the plug. May well be the solder on the header pins, a break in the cable or a solder joint under the playfield - you'd ruin a lot of perfectly good connections otherwise while losing valuable cable length.
 
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drhex said:
@Reg Please figure out what the fault really is before changing the plug. May well be the solder on the header pins, a break in the cable or a solder joint under the playfield - you'd ruin a lot of perfectly good connections otherwise while losing valuable cable length.
Click to expand...
Hi. For now I just want to play the table for a while, I wont be messing with it :D If and when I do look at swapping things out i'll give you a shout. I do know the correct tools are essential, I wouldn't begin the process without them.
 
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