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MM troll up switch bad

bethamari

bethamari

Registered
Joined
Oct 16, 2016
Messages
422
Location
Harrogate
Hey all,

So thanks a lot again for all the advice for our MM flipper switch over. We got everything working on today and went to play our first game but now the right troll doesn't seem to be popping up.

Both worked previously.

We get a "r. troll up switch is bad" when doing a troll test and it won't pop.

We've had a check over all the cables and they look fine. We tried to use our multimeter but that doesn't seem to be working correctly at the moment. Upon searching for the same error message I found a suggestion of "go into Tests - Switch Edges. Under the playfield you can see the left troll/plunger/coil assembly. There is a micro mini switch the troll carriage closes going up, and opens when going down. Push the switch and see if it's working." We've done that and when trying with both trolls a dot pops up on the display.

Any advice would be appreciated, as I can't find much out there upon searching so we're unsure what to try first (and how to properly detach them/the coil should we need to).

Thanks again
 
I've seen this before. It might be caused by the power being switched off during a gamewhen trolls are active.

Ironically there is probably nothing wrong with any of game mechanisms. It is when the game software gets confused and thinks the solenoid is not working so it won't let you do anything.

I think I cleared it by manually putting the troll up and switching the power to the game off. Wait 5 seconds then switch the power on... or something like that so the game can figure out that the switch is working.
 
We've just given your suggestion a go @Moonraker, thanks but unfortunately this doesn't seem to have fixed it.

We tried a factory reset earlier too which removed the error message but it didn't fix the troll and the message came back afterwards.
 
There is yeah. Doing it pops up the left one but not the right which returns a message about the up switch being faulty. Picture attached if it helps.
 

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I currently don't have any Bally/Williams games to try it but I believe you can test stuff even if it registers a bad switch.
It will report the bad switch but still allow you to perform tests. Try it on the other troll first.
 
Also trace the wires back to the control board and check the connectors there.
 
Remove the balls and check under the playfield that you don't have a wire off and that the switch is working freely. I'm still convienced it's a software bug that I've seen before...
 
Does the troll pop up if you choose it in solenoid test? If it doesn't it's probably the solenoid at fault rather than the switch. Pretty sure the trolls have dual wound coils so choose the power winding in the test with the coin door closed.
 
We've tried a solenoid test and it doesn't pop up during that but all other parts on the machine working.

Had a good look at wires but can't see anything missing. Few photos attached if it helps.
 

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It might be the angle of the photo but the lever on the right hand troll switch looks like its bent up around the body of the switch. Is it free to move and not being held closed? If you actuate when in Tests>Switch Edges do you see it register open and closed?
 
Sometime the winding of the coil can break where it connects to the solder tab. Check the windings are good. Give each wire a light tug to ensure it is connected to the tab. If you have a working meter, put the black lead on ground braid in the cabinet. Then on a dc volts scale, measure the voltages at each of the tabs (door closed). You should get the same voltage at all six tabs. If not a coil is bad. Or if there are no volts on any of the tabs of the non working coil then you have a power distribution problem.
 
aaronhicksuk said:
It might be the angle of the photo but the lever on the right hand troll switch looks like its bent up around the body of the switch. Is it free to move and not being held closed? If you actuate when in Tests>Switch Edges do you see it register open and closed?
Click to expand...
There doesn't seem to be anything in the way. We can manually push it up and it will stay in position, it feels like the one on the left, which works. For the trolls test it says bad switch and for the switch test, it we push the trolls up during that then both of them will show one dot on the grid on the display.

It does look like the left one doesnt push up as far as the right however. You can still see the spring on the other.
 

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pinballmania said:
Sometime the winding of the coil can break where it connects to the solder tab. Check the windings are good. Give each wire a light tug to ensure it is connected to the tab. If you have a working meter, put the black lead on ground braid in the cabinet. Then on a dc volts scale, measure the voltages at each of the tabs (door closed). You should get the same voltage at all six tabs. If not a coil is bad. Or if there are no volts on any of the tabs of the non working coil then you have a power distribution problem.
Click to expand...
Tried to measure it but out meter seems to have made the left one spark and now that doesn't work :S
 
Sounds like you might have used a current scale on the meter instead of voltage causing a short and blowing a fuse.
 
pinballmania said:
Sounds like you might have used a current scale on the meter instead of voltage causing a short and blowing a fuse.
Click to expand...
Thank you! Really thought I'd made it worse then :( Put a torch in there, founf a blown fuse in the flipper section and the left troll is now back in action! :D

I think I set it to DC current rather than voltage, just saw the DC part in the manual first - oops! Do you know which option is best to set it to for the test. 200 mV, 2000 mV, 20V, 200V or 600V?


Thanks again. It felt so rewarding being able to do the flippers. Could it potentially be anything we knocked during?
 
Check the continuity from the pin of the connector associated with that coils wires. Check each pin for each tab. If you get continuity you know there isn't a break so then it's prob something on the board
 
So you have a break in the power chain. The trolls are in the flipper circuits, so each has its own power fuse. So go back and check fuses F115-118
 
pinballmania said:
So you have a break in the power chain. The trolls are in the flipper circuits, so each has its own power fuse. So go back and check fuses F115-118
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You're right. I knew we'd done the top two fuses already for the flippers and then the bottom when I accidentally blew the one last night... So I took out the third and the bit inside had snapped - it wasn't visible when I looked last night with my torch and the board didn't mention the flipper fuse effects trolls so apologies for maybe a simple fix!

I put a new fuse in and the troll came up during its test mode but then it blew again. Any ideas why it would blow again straight away? I used 20mm time delay 4As like I have replaced in the other 3 fuses there already. We saw the trolls both work when we collected but now it's blown again since fixing the flippers.
 
Until you fix it, can you disable the right troll from the menus ?
 
We turned off the right troll last night from the menu so we could play a game.

Still need to figure out why it's blowing the fuse when it activates though (it doesn't seem to pop fully up, it does a little then fuses).

Would it be worth us swapping the coil from the other troll? Or doing some kind of ohm reading on the coil (already checked voltage which shows as 0 on the three wires/tabs coming from the coil).

Cheers again for everyone's help so far. Much appreciated!
 
You need to check the coil resistance and also check the diode. Do it with the power off and use the other (working one) as a reference.

You need to check for ground shorts also.
 
Read about coil testing here.

http://techniek.flipperwinkel.nl/wpc/index2.htm#trans

Specifically this bit.


  • WPC Coil Diodes.
    On all electronic pinball games, each and every CPU controlled coil must have a coil diode. This diode is VERY important. When a coil is energized, it produces a magnetic field. As the coil's magnetic field collapses (when the power shuts off to the coil), a surge of power as much as twice the energizing voltage spikes backwards through the coil. The coil diode prevents this surge from going back to the driver board and damaging components.

    If the coil diode is bad or missing, it can cause several problems. If the diode is shorted on, coil fuse(s) will blow. If the diode is open or missing, strange game play will result (because the driver board is trying to absorb the return voltage from the coil's magnetic field collapsing). At worse a missing or open diode can cause the driver transistor or other components to fail.

    On non-WPC games, sometimes a diode lead breaks on the coil from vibration. Also, when replacing a coil, the operator can install the coil wires incorrectly (the power wire should always be attached to the coil's lug with the banded side of the diode). To prevent this, Williams moved the coil diode to the Driver board. This isolates the coil diode from vibration and eliminates the possibility of installing the coil's wires in reverse. This was done on all coils except the flipper coils.
 
Thanks again for everyone's advice on this one.

We ordered a new coil and fitted it today and that's fixed the issue. Troll is now popping up a treat and we can play after fixing the flippers and troll! :D
 
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