What's new
Pinball info

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

LOTR LE - Sound issue

Lance

Lance

Registered
Joined
Jul 21, 2011
Messages
141
Location
Hornchurch, Essex
Got a problem with a LOTR LE. LOTR LE is 2009 and differs from standard 2003 version as it has Whitestar CPU/Soundboard II connected to a SAM driver board. I am pretty sure my problem is the Whitestart CPU Soundboard II so posting here for help as someone may have seen this on any machine that uses that board.


The Problem

Games plays fine , but after a few games the Music stops. Playfield and playsounds are all working but no theme music. Then it may come back and then stop again

After a few more plays then the sounds themselves start playing up, I,e, distorted sound, missed calls , screech sounds , different volume. Sometimes music will come back and then will go again.

Also when any mutiball starts the sound is noticably louder ( for call outs ) until multi ball finished

I have done the obvious no loose wires , all ribbon cables correct

I have had a search about , one advice is to make sure Eprom is flashed to Stern OS8. That means 8 flashes at bootup which mine has so Have assumed that’s ok, but maybe its got corrupt ?

Another is corrupted Sound Rom chips but does not make sense to me if works initially ?

If I turn machine off , take out all the Sound ROms ( U7, U37, U36, U21,U17 ) and then reset them. Then it all works – for a few games and then same pattern.

Equally if I turn off and take the batteries out the put all back , Then same again , Games is fine for 2 or 3 games and then the music stop

So a bit stuck.

Is it the Roms? Seating of Roms?, board needs reflashing or something else?

A replacement board is about £450 , which I am pretty sure will fix it , but thought I would ask the forum to see what can be tried before I take that option

Any ideas ?
 
What ROMs are you using? The latest are 10.02 for CPU and 10.0 for display

And have you tried a factory reset?
And have you read the service bulletin 157?
 
Hi ,

Thanks for the reply.

Yes its 10.02 CPU and 10.0 Rom

Have read 157 , talks about problems if sound O/S is not ver 8. Mine appears to be as get 8 flashes on boot. Could try reflashing it but need a special Eprom to reflash. Dont know where to get one of them to give that a go,

Will try a factory reset. Anything is worth a try
 
Just tried the factory reset. Didn.t work , 2nd game in Music went again

I think I am at get a new U7 ( read on Pinside that might work ) and a reflash sound o/s 8. Anyone know where I can get these ?

thanks
 
i got my v8 flash eprom from @Paul who does these as a service for forum members at £6 a chip i think - i'd let you have mine but i've already promised it to someone else (and then i'm getting it back so i can update all my Sterns)

it sounds like you should be asking him to burn you the whole set of sound chips tbh, as one of them may be behind it. or wait til someone sensible happens by, someone with more knowledge than me @pinballmania @lukewells
 
ok , so with @Pauls help we are going to reflash o/s 8 and then replace sound rom and voice roms. Hopefully your right and that does it. Will report back. Many thanks for yoiur help.
 
Ok , may need some board repair help.

With @pauls help . We have rulled a lot out . We reflashed Sound O/S 8.00. No change . Change Game rom , No change
New U7 rom didnt work but @Paul is doing another so we are sure ( could be a bad ROM )

What is noticeable is U7 is really loose. So I am thinking to resocket this. WHo can do this repair ?. This is the last chance before the fix is a new board.

So does anyone know who could resocket a U7 on a Stern Whitestar CPU / Sound II board for me please.
 
Haven't had reason to repair a Stern yet but do they have separate amps for the music and speech ?

I presume they do because there is a mod that quiets down the audible hum and it requires two resistor values altering.

That would be the first place I would have a gawp at.
 
Thanks Andrew , way beyond my capability . Was looking for someone who can do repairs. Does anyone know someone who can look st U7 please ?
 
U7 is a 28 pin socket for a 27256 or 27512. I'm happy to do the repair for you, PM me and we'll sort something. :cool:
 
Ok thought I would update on this.

Still have the same issue after all the work. SO we have done since last update :

Reflashed sound with O/S 8 as per stern service bulletin #157
Replaced all the ROMS - yep everyone
The legend replaced the U7 Socket

So I think having exhausted everything we are down to the board. So that means a new one from Pinball Heaven when I have the funds

Just thought I would update in case anyone else gets this problem,

Many thanks to everyone for their help.
 
Can you get a can of freeze spray ? (Maplins sells it).

When the sound starts playing up spray the freeze spray on the two transistors with the black heat sink on the left of the sound/cpu board.

image.jpeg
 
Lance said:
Thanks

will give it a go , right now will try anything

Cheers
Click to expand...
Here is how it works. When they are shot, amplifier transistors will start to get really hot (that is when the distorted/garbled sound starts). A quick blast with freeze spray cooks it all back down and it should sound ok again for a short while.
This is how it works on Bally/Williams games and although I haven't tried it, I can't see it being any different on a Stern.
 
Had a very similar fault on a nascar and it turned out to be acid damage at the ribbon edge connector
 
Andrew - OK will have a look but the proper fix would be to replace the transistors and these heatsinks ?

@pinsinthewild Ribbon cables look ok , no acid damage on board. Theres only 2 ribbon cables. a 20 pin between CPU and Power board and a 26 pin between cpu and DMD board. Does not make much sense to me how either could affect the sound as the amps for the sound are on the cpu board.
 
Find out if that is the fault first. You don't want to be replacing components if you don't have to. You won't need to change the heat sinks if the transistors are shot. Just the transistor itself. We will cross that bridge when we come to it.
 
image.jpeg Hi Andrew. Well played it again tonight. Music stopped halfway through first ball , so about 3 mins into it. I figured before I spray anything. Would see if the heat sinks get hot. They are both cool , ie can easily touch them with figure , donor sure freezing them will help. Also took picture of area in hope a capacitor was mushrooming or something but all looks good to me. So still stuck
 
Hi lance,
If the roms are ok and the transistors are ok. The only two other obvious culprits are the capacitors or dry joints, either could be the problem because you mention that the music plays for a while then goes off... Check your board for dry joints dude......always worth a look....
 
One crazy fix that I had to do many years ago on a WPC game was replace the chip that controls the digital volume. It was a swine to track down the fault and then a bigger swine to find a supply of the chips.

I don't know how Sterns control the volume but it is another possibility.
 
Have a watch of this video.


It is the same sound system as a LOTR. He spends some time showing the components around the amps.
If you have the capability it would be a good call to check the value of the resistors near those amps.
 
Music plays for a while and then stops. My guess is it's heat related. And it's perfect weather to check it out.

So - See if the issue happens any sooner at the moment, whilst it's hot. Get some freeze spray from the local Maplin. Using the BACK of your finger/hand, and making sure that you have earthed yourself on the side rails beforehand, touch the chips and caps and anything that is roasting give a blast with the freezer spray and see ifthe music returns....
 
Yes mate , that' makes sense , back in February ,music stops in third game, now in hot room , halfway through first . So in gameplay time , problem manifests in Feb circa 10 mins , now in 3 . ( obviously that's an average and no statement on how crap a player I am )
 
OK an update .
its definately in the sound section on the board. Everything else has been ruled out

I cant see anything wrong with that section

I have attached another photo ,

What I do get following @Paul advice if when music is playing i touch one of the capacitors, thers a crackle and music stops

Its the 2nd Blue one from the top, labelled C114

So this is where my expertise ends , who can help diagnose that part of the board , replace at least that capacitor and test check out the others, has to be in there.

I know these boards are hard to repair , but this section looks like replaceable components , I dont think its changed much since Sega games

IMG_5923.JPG
 
So - does it stop and not come back?
If you wobble it very slightly does it come back, or does it still crackle?

Anyone near you who may be able to replace that Cap? Definate first candidate - Could be the Cap, a Dry joint on the board, or dodgy track on the top/rear....
What markings does it have (should say something like 10uf 25v....
 
ok if switch game on , start a game, so ball is in shooter lane , but dont play it. Machine will just play the music.
If i then touch all capacitors , nothing happens exceppt for C114
When I touch that , music still plays but get a interference noice, a high pitch buzz, sounds like when you have a flea near your ear. its not load but comes and goes as put finger on C114.

when I started to play game , eventiually music goes, wiggling C114 does nothing , Music did not come back ( but get bussing sound)

So sounds like C114 is culprit.

Took picture of it , it has numbers on it IMG_5925.JPG
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom