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JJP flipper improvements and the new i/o board

stumblor

stumblor

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I know people have mentioned this elsewhere but thought it worth creating a dedicated thread.

Last week Jack from JJP essentially said that the new I/o board used in Elton, the flippers of which are universally agreed to have corrected the jjp mushyness problem, will also be made available for other JJp titles, namely, GNR and wonka, so that they too could share the flipper improvements.

The board is 400 bucks from pinball life, but people have bought and installed it, and reported back that flipper feel is markededly improved.

Since then, some people have been investigating the changes, which appear to simply be larger caps on the 75v flipper line. Some have gone so far as to retrofit existing I/o boards (only changing out the caps) - with the same improvements

Screenshot_20240125_065019_Chrome.jpg

Apparently this will get you to TS4/GF flippers. Elton is better again because of the new coils used.

Literal game changer for JJp owners.

JJP Fully Populated Enhanced I/O Board | Tech: LCD era games | Pinside.com

| Forum Topic by grambo1980
pinside.com pinside.com
 
$400 bucks for a bunch of replacement caps!!! Wow! (Well i guess technically it's an entire replacement board, but essentially thats the difference!)

I'll replace them for $350 if anyone wants them done ;) :rofl:

Seriously tho - something I'd be interested to try for someone to see if it actually works, or if it's "snake oil" :)
 
I know a few of the guys who are posting in the thread with positive experiences, and trust their judgement. There is more than 5 confirmations now - I think the board is a legit fix. The cap change on an older board - only one positive report, so unconfirmed. It may also be the code on the PIC.
 
I don't understand all the technical talk.

However Godfather has just left yesterday and the flippers felt better than previous JJP games. But Elton was a further step-up.

So I can only assume they began some improvements with Godfather then made more.
 
If it does turn out that retrofitting new caps on the old board has the same effect, how much would we be looking at it parts? And is there anyone over here who would be up for offering it as a service?

I have two older JJP games and this is sounding promising - but spending $800 + shipping and import duties is a bit of an ask.
 
JustLikeMe said:
If it does turn out that retrofitting new caps on the old board has the same effect, how much would we be looking at it parts? And is there anyone over here who would be up for offering it as a service?

I have two older JJP games and this is sounding promising - but spending $800 + shipping and import duties is a bit of an ask.
Click to expand...

Literally a few quid maybe 20 quid (thanks Paul). It's an easy fix for anyone with a solder sucker. I would put my hand up but realistically just don't have the time to do them ongoing. Happy to do one or two though.

Kenny Taylor said:
Never has WOZ, TH or DI had complaints about flippers feeling mushy. That’s a Chinese whisper!
Click to expand...

Defo felt this on GNR. Woz apparently doesn't have the issue. People have been changing TH and DI in the states, so some people must feel they suffer also I guess.
 
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JustLikeMe said:
If it does turn out that retrofitting new caps on the old board has the same effect, how much would we be looking at it parts?
Click to expand...
In parts, This side of the pond around £40 for decent quality replacements (Cornell-Dubilier or Kemet for example). If you did it yourself. Thats if there are four that need replacing. Half of this if there's only two - still reading the thread :)

Someone else to do it? Probably add another £50-60 because of the risk involved. Probably £100 total.

Not seen one of these boards in person, however if they are anything like the WPC driver board Caps (Snap-in ones) you run the risk of stripping out the through-holes if you arent experienced, and thats a whole world of pain!
 
Update on the above - It's just the two that need replacing - the upper two....

Original board (Wonka)
1706179616318.png

Newer board (Elton)

1706179644732.png

(not heard of the "Samxon" brand before.... the original Rubycon's would be much better!)
 
Another answer would be to add an additional 3300uf cap in parallel (ie total of 6800uf) - which would save the soldering, but I can't think of a clean way to add them. Having the schematic would help.
 
stumblor said:
£15 for two. 100v 6800uf.

https://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/Cornell-Dubilier-CDE/SLPX682M100H9P3?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvwFf0viD3Y3ROGmxq83YAGHrLWObhdl%2Bk=

The installation is a bit more involved because these are snap in and aren't the correct footprint for the originals, so a spacer and some legs are required.
Click to expand...
Nicely spotted - only checked RS, didnt get as far as Mouser! So thats £20 a pair including VAT... to be fair not much different in price between them (unusually!) :)

The other difference is that i was looking at 105C since they are right next to the bridges, which are running rather warm... :D

1706179918178.png
 
Paul said:
Nicely spotted - only checked RS, didnt get as far as Mouser! So thats £20 a pair including VAT... to be fair not much different in price between them (unusually!) :)

The other difference is that i was looking at 105C since they are right next to the bridges, which are running rather warm... :D

View attachment 242829
Click to expand...

I love that someone did this btw
 
This all sounds very promising. If it turns out that fitting the new caps does the same job as installing the new board then I have two boards I’d love to send off to someone more competent than myself. If anyone is considering offering it as a service please put me on the list!
 
JustLikeMe said:
This all sounds very promising. If it turns out that fitting the new caps does the same job as installing the new board then I have two boards I’d love to send off to someone more competent than myself. If anyone is considering offering it as a service please put me on the list!
Click to expand...
All sounds promising.... happy to do it, however i would hang fire with those floppy flippers for a few days and let the others navigate the mine field and more people do it before jumping in :)
 
JustLikeMe said:
This all sounds very promising. If it turns out that fitting the new caps does the same job as installing the new board then I have two boards I’d love to send off to someone more competent than myself. If anyone is considering offering it as a service please put me on the list!
Click to expand...
Me too for gnr 😎
 
AlanJ said:
new career @Paul. I was going to volunteer but your new soldering station is better than mine 😂😂
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:rofl:

I trained as an Electonic Engineer (OND in Electronics, telecoms and computing). Finally after 30odd years (with lots of years of practice as a hobby) with no current job and 15 years till retirement age, figured i should put it to good use for the meantime at least!!
 
Paul said:
:rofl:

I trained as an Electonic Engineer (OND in Electronics, telecoms and computing). Finally after 30odd years (with lots of years of practice as a hobby) with no current job and 15 years till retirement age, figured i should put it to good use for the meantime at least!!
Click to expand...
I also will have a few JJP power boards that I'd get upgraded. If you so choose to offer this service. :clap:
 
Are the new coils just coil replacements or entire flipper assemblies? Would the new Elton coils be a PnP replacement on a TS4?

I feel the flippers on my TS4 are VERY loud and "bangy", louder than the sterns standing next it it, but strangely still not as snappy as the sterns. I guess there is a difference in initial acceleration of the flipper vs the speed at which it hits the coil stop?
 
Julian said:
I also will have a few JJP power boards that I'd get upgraded. If you so choose to offer this service. :clap:
Click to expand...
Deffo will be - Just hanging fire for a week or twe to get feedback from that that have done it....

Lots ordering the $400 boards it seems on pinside... as someone said... "Crazy that we need to do this but then again, this is the pinball hobby where mods sell for more than ps5." :D
 
Bikerjoy said:
Are the new coils just coil replacements or entire flipper assemblies? Would the new Elton coils be a PnP replacement on a TS4?

I feel the flippers on my TS4 are VERY loud and "bangy", louder than the sterns standing next it it, but strangely still not as snappy as the sterns. I guess there is a difference in initial acceleration of the flipper vs the speed at which it hits the coil stop?
Click to expand...

Don't get caught up on this. A lot of that is the cabinet and playfield parts changing the acoustics.

I had two WPC games next to each other, identical flipper mechs and one had flippers that felt really clicky and one was more thuddy. One felt better to play because of how they sounded, which changed how they felt...
I even swapped parts to test it. A lot of flipper feel is psychological in my experience.

But, that's not to say it can differ due to coil stops, how tight the coil is in the mechanism and other things.
Just saying be careful of going down the rabbit hole 😂
 
David_Vi said:
I had two WPC games next to each other, identical flipper mechs and one had flippers that felt really clicky and one was more thuddy. One felt better to play because of how they sounded, which changed how they felt...
I even swapped parts to test it. A lot of flipper feel is psychological in my experience.
Click to expand...

Couldn’t agree more, I’ve noticed the exact same thing. Really weird how a machine can feel better to play just down to the noise the flippers make but it’s true.
 
JustLikeMe said:
Couldn’t agree more, I’ve noticed the exact same thing. Really weird how a machine can feel better to play just down to the noise the flippers make but it’s true.
Click to expand...

I'm glad someone else has noticed. It's something that I've never noticed anyone talking about 😄. The flipper buttons, stiffness of leaf switches/opto interrupters is another aspect.

The Alien at the pinball office had leaf switches that were just two blades, (usually there's extra blades to add resistance which can be adjusted). It made the buttons so light to touch which in turn made the flippers feel weak.
 
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