Installing a doorway from house to extension for Pinroom!

[David_Vi]

Update, ignore these first posts except for context... the work has begun, see later posts

My first home is in a sorry state after rewiring.... Slow progress!
The pins currently live in the kitchen and utility room.

There was a one story extension built onto the side of this house, which has a utility room at the back (currently two pins live in there). The main portion of the extension will eventually be the pinball room and fit 7 pins, it was previously used as a bedroom for lodger and has a front door on it, which is too narrow to get pins into.
My plan is to have that door bricked up and knock a doorway through from the bottom of the stairs into the extension. This will give better access and make it much easier to move pins in via the front door of the house rather than through and around to the utility room.

I'm wondering if anyone has any idea of how much this might cost?

It's technically an external wall and for some reason the extension floor is lower than the rest of the house, but i don't mind a step down like how it is from the utility room.

I won't need the plastering or skirting redone as I have a friend who is helping with the the house and we'll get to that when we do the room properly.

Just the hole made and door and frame fitted and then the old front door bricked up.

Where new door will go in extension


Door location in Hall. (radiator will be replaced with a smaller upright one closer to front door)


(green is the current journey a pin will have to take to get in, which means removing doors also)


Any ideas on a ball park figure and what it would involve? I know there's a lot of folks here who have had extensions built or done major work on their homes so hoping for some advice.
I don't want to get quotes yet if it'll be way out of budget. Hoping for around 1k but I'm clueless with house stuff!

 

[The seeker]

1k ish for the cutting of the door and it might need a lintel but get quotes that is what u use quotes for also where’s the utility’s enter the house

 

[Moonraker]

Why not widen the "current useless door" and shorten the width of the window next to it? It then saves the hassle of knocking a hole in the wall for the new door and removes the need to relocate the radiators on each side of the wall where the new door is to go. It might be the least invasive and possibly the cheapest option...

 

[M4carp]

Agree with above, that looks like it was a garage or designed to be one. I would just get a new window/door arrangement made where the garage door was.
You will also keep your hallway original and easily done.
Also will be a lot easier to get pins in and out.

 

[stevebm1]

you will have to factor in the cost of either moving the existing radiators or getting smaller ones as well

 

[Calimori]

Looking at the radiators, the actual plumbing appears easy and two modern up right radiators will solve the space and size issue. But will add £250-450 to the price (depending on radiators)
If this is part of joining the room to the house properly then do it properly. If this is just about making the pin room easier to use then reduce the front window and enlarge the door.

 

[David_Vi]

Why not widen the "current useless door" and shorten the width of the window next to it? It then saves the hassle of knocking a hole in the wall for the new door and removes the need to relocate the radiators on each side of the wall where the new door is to go. It might be the least invasive and possibly the cheapest option...

Agree with above, that looks like it was a garage or designed to be one. I would just get a new window/door arrangement made where the garage door was.
You will also keep your hallway original and easily done.
Also will be a lot easier to get pins in and out.

I think this front door on the extension issue has come up before on a post I did months ago.
The extension was built, it wasn't a garage. Originally the back door of the house would have been the side door into the utility room.

I've thought about it but having two big front doors right next to each other at the front of the house but it doesn't sit well with me for some reason. I think because it'll only be used for moving pins and that won't happen often and having a door in the hall would be used many times a week and make the extension feel more like part of the house than it does now.
That said, I didn't look into it that much, it would be interesting to know how much cheaper it would be.

1k ish for the cutting of the door and it might need a lintel but get quotes that is what u use quotes for also where’s the utility’s enter the house

I'd imagine it needs a lintel if its an external wall?
Utilities, not 100% but if you see below there's a rather fat gas mains that runs along the side of the extension.
1-1.5k to me sounds OK, before the rads get moved. I'd be happy with that.
I just need to get quotes and be certain on how I want it... I'm very indecisive

you will have to factor in the cost of either moving the existing radiators or getting smaller ones as well

Looking at the radiators, the actual plumbing appears easy and two modern up right radiators will solve the space and size issue. But will add £250-450 to the price (depending on radiators)
If this is part of joining the room to the house properly then do it properly. If this is just about making the pin room easier to use then reduce the front window and enlarge the door.

The radiators aren't an issue I had intended to get them relocated and replaced anyway. The actual issue is the larger gas main that goes along the edge of the extension, splits to the utility box outside front door and up through extension roof where it then goes up the outside of the house to the loft where the boiler is.
I'm thinking of chasing a channel in the floor that it can be moved into, so it's totally hidden. Or have it go along the top of the room but might look uglier!

I have no idea what's under the floor, except under the carpet is laminate. But i assume it's possible but adds more cost.
I'd just like to get it right before work begins on the pin room rather than be stuck with that silly door.

 

[The seeker]

Gas meter.... I’m out

 

[Calimori]

Based on this:
You want to make the extension part of the house.
The cost of the lintel work and door sounds acceptable
The cost of the radiators fits in with your plans

The gas pipe is the next bit for the quote. It sounds like you want to get it tidied up anyway.
I moved my boiler the other year and had a whole new feed delivered and it didn’t seem a challenge for the gas fitter.

 

[BigIan]

I’d fill the current useless door in and move to the other side of the wall, moving it away from the front door so shouldn’t be as annoying ?

if you knock the door thru where you are suggesting are you not ending up with 2 doors beside each other but on the inside where you see them multiple of times every day ? Also take into account that more doors means less wall space and less room to site pins etc.

cheapest option would be leave it all the way it is, how often will you be moving pins in and out after you have them in situ?

next would be to enlarge the ‘useless’ door but make it obvious it’s not the front door..

 

[David_Vi]

I’d fill the current useless door in and move to the other side of the wall, moving it away from the front door so shouldn’t be as annoying ?

if you knock the door thru where you are suggesting are you not ending up with 2 doors beside each other but on the inside where you see them multiple of times every day ? Also take into account that more doors means less wall space and less room to site pins etc.

cheapest option would be leave it all the way it is, how often will you be moving pins in and out after you have them in situ?

next would be to enlarge the ‘useless’ door but make it obvious it’s not the front door..

I'm not sure what you mean about the two doors next to each other? You mean the proposed new door and the utility room door?

Apologies for quality...

This shows the pins will be on the far wall, so a new door won't change the amount of pins, it'll only remove wall space.

The moving of the extension front door to the other side would remove space for one pin.

This is what the front of the house looks like, I realise the plan isn't all that accurate with the front door placement.

(ignore the old internal door resting on the inside)
Leaving it the way it is is an option, I've had my 3 pins since Sept last year and can't imagine getting rid of them yet but have room for 7 in the utility room so I don't think I'll be moving pins in and out often at all, except filling it gradually. Still I think it'll make things so much easier, especially when the utility room finds other uses and hasn't much room for maneuvering pins and having to 'shark fin' pins through the kitchen to utility room door (with door off!) will add more effort.
I guess removing backbox all together is the best option as having it shark finned will only get it into utility room and then it won't be able to turn the corner into the extension if there's furniture in the utility room. (not sure if I'm explaining this well!)

Based on this:
You want to make the extension part of the house.
The cost of the lintel work and door sounds acceptable
The cost of the radiators fits in with your plans

The gas pipe is the next bit for the quote. It sounds like you want to get it tidied up anyway.
I moved my boiler the other year and had a whole new feed delivered and it didn’t seem a challenge for the gas fitter.

My boiler was moved into the loft when I moved in so part of the pipes that go up through the ceiling are new. Would be a shame to move it again!, for the portion of it along the bottom of the wall, I do believe I could put a channel along the floor and the plumber can reroute the pipe under the floor so it doesn't block the potential door. I doubt it'll be that expensive if I grind the channel out myself? It's just filling it I don't know how to do


I appreciate both your advice, I often feel so out of my depth with house ownership, especially one that requires this much work

 

[BigIan]

I mean the two doors at the front, front door and door into pin room (sounds good ?)
for that matter in the pin room you will have the useless door an the door out of the pin room beside each other as well

I’d take the glass out of the pin room exterior door and replace with a matching white panel (like front door only no window or letter box etc.

also that exterior shot shows that the pin room was built as a garage, no biggie but you can see the outline of where the garage door would have been installed and is around 7.5 to 8.25 foot of a gap (usual single garage door size) the wall in the door gap hasn’t been tied in with the existing bricks.. metal header is hidden behind those vertical bricks, wouldn’t be needed if the wall (with the window and ‘useless‘ door in) had been in the initial build/plan.

good luck with whatever you decide, the fact you have a pin room is something to celebrate already

 

[DanLewell]

That was 100% a garage at some point.

Soldier bricks all along the top where the garage door used to be. And the bricks to the right of the window don't tie in.

I agree that putting the door into the hallway and getting rid of the existing door will look best.

Deffo need a lintel where you cut into the old external wall

I would have though the bill is going to be about a 1000-1500

You've got plumber for a day + cost of rads and materials.
Builder for a day or two fitting lintel then cutting the door out.
Then builder / chippy for half a day to fit door lining and door.
Then possibly plasterer or just a decorator to tidy up.

Then more cost to sort the door at the front but that will cost more in materials, as you're bricking stuff up not just taking stuff out.

 

[The seeker]

id just make it back into a garage door , perhaps 2 well fitted wooden doors or even a large sliding patio door, saves all the mess can you attach a photo of the room from the inside door looking through the pin room to the outside ? 6 ft french doors would look good

 

[AlanJ]

Just replace the existing door and window and wall with floor to ceiling glass with 1/2 width sliding door. Ive seen a few garages converted that way and look really nice.

 

[Pick Holder]

May be easier to improve the useless outside door to make that wider and have a single window under it. Only a small bit of brickwork.

 

[David_Vi]

It's been an extension for aslong as the previous owners lived here, 20+ years. I'd given up on the idea that it was once a garage as none of the other houses like this have it. But i guess the first owner built a garage onto the house then later converted it to a room.
The fact there's a drop and a step from the utility room to the extension would be more evidence of this?
As well as the fact the extension feels colder than the utility room even though part of the same extension.

Also under the plaster on the house side is an old phoneline cable clipped along the brickwork, guess it wasnt plastered when it was a garage




It's not bricks around the window and door. It sounds hollow, like it might be plasterboard or something else?

Just replace the existing door and window and wall with floor to ceiling glass with 1/2 width sliding door. Ive seen a few garages converted that way and look really nice.

id just make it back into a garage door , perhaps 2 well fitted wooden doors or even a large sliding patio door, saves all the mess can you attach a photo of the room from the inside door looking through the pin room to the outside ? 6 ft french doors would look good

I'm sure that would be nice if the view was onto a back garden but not sure it's that nice onto the street and driveway... Would be interested to see pictures though, i guess requires that a Google!


1.5k sounds good to me, but the decorating won't be as much as I have a friend who plasters helping with the house... Although slowly. So any making good will by done by him with my novice assisting!

 

[David_Vi]

One of my friends says I'd need a structural engineer and a RSJ.. I thought I could go to builders first and they'd advise?

 

[mplayfield]

To knock through a supporting wall as you are planning you will need a structural engineer to draw up plans and issue calculations for lintle sizes etc with which you can then show to the building inspector who will pass off the completed job.Both these things cost around £500 .Without doing them when you sell your house the buyers solicitor will be a pain and will ask for it to be done retrospectivly or want an insurance policy.This is all done before the builder starts unless you get an expensive builder to arrange it all for you.Sometimes but rarely a building inspector will say its ok if you do it like this and tell you his prefered method but most dont want the responsibility .First step though is the building inspector who will advise and will usually give a 20 min free first visit depends on your council though .Good luck with it.

 

[David_Vi]

To knock through a supporting wall as you are planning you will need a structural engineer to draw up plans and issue calculations for lintle sizes etc with which you can then show to the building inspector who will pass off the completed job.Both these things cost around £500 .Without doing them when you sell your house the buyers solicitor will be a pain and will ask for it to be done retrospectivly or want an insurance policy.This is all done before the builder starts unless you get an expensive builder to arrange it all for you.Sometimes but rarely a building inspector will say its ok if you do it like this and tell you his prefered method but most dont want the responsibility .First step though is the building inspector who will advise and will usually give a 20 min free first visit depends on your council though .Good luck with it.

Thanks for this, I had no idea.
Is a 'building inspector' the same as 'building control'?

This is what I found for my local council
https://www.babergh.gov.uk/building-control/contact-building-control/

 

[mplayfield]

Thanks for this, I had no idea.
Is a 'building inspector' the same as 'building control'?

This is what I found for my local council
https://www.babergh.gov.uk/building-control/contact-building-control/

Hi yes building inspector works for building control he is there to stop you doing anything that will make your house fall down or putting in inadequate insulation etc . I have a number for my local inspector as i am a builder and call him direct .If you can find your guys number and speak to him direct its best Other wise try to book a free visit to pick his brains .

 

[David_Vi]

Took its time but something is happening!

 

[The seeker]

Good lad, mind I did mine last summer and it’s now full

 

[Asiapinball]

Sorry removed as out of date.

 

[David_Vi]

Building regulations require at least 400mm between a staircase and a door opening so you will also need to take that into account in your plans. And you need a door width of level floor before any step down after opening the door. Upside is that if the "garage" floor is lower and the gas pipe currently runs along the skirting, you may not have to move it (i..e the new (wooden) platform in the room will have the gas pipe within it).

Paul

I don't understand the step down part.
This is the other door



It has a step down, the new door will be like this, are you saying this is bad?

The floor might be brought up but that will be in future when the room gets done properly

 

[Asiapinball]

Sorry David, I thought it was a big step down into the "garage", but now level. And looks like my comments are out of date anyway as you have it all sorted anyway. Looks great progress! Will be loads better.

Paul

 

[David_Vi]

Sorry David, I thought it was a big step down into the "garage", but now level. And looks like my comments are out of date anyway as you have it all sorted anyway. Looks great progress! Will be loads better.

Paul

It is a step down but not huge, the picture above is from the garage looking into the utility room

 

[VeeMonroe]

To knock through a supporting wall as you are planning you will need a structural engineer to draw up plans and issue calculations for lintle sizes etc with which you can then show to the building inspector who will pass off the completed job.Both these things cost around £500 .Without doing them when you sell your house the buyers solicitor will be a pain and will ask for it to be done retrospectivly or want an insurance policy.This is all done before the builder starts unless you get an expensive builder to arrange it all for you.Sometimes but rarely a building inspector will say its ok if you do it like this and tell you his prefered method but most dont want the responsibility .First step though is the building inspector who will advise and will usually give a 20 min free first visit depends on your council though .Good luck with it.

Yeah. This is what I was going to say. I'm not 100% sure about the situation, but if it is a load-bearing wall (i.e. carrying upper floors) then you need a RSJ (rolled steel joist).

We were loosely estimated 5k for knocking through a much longer wall and supporting the upper floors of our house on an RSJ stretched across the remaining arch. Yours looks like it would be cheaper than that and we didn't go ahead with the works for various reasons, so don't know what else was included (e.g. making good the wall with plaster).

 

[Asiapinball]

I don't understand the step down part.
This is the other door

View attachment 157934

It has a step down, the new door will be like this, are you saying this is bad?

The floor might be brought up but that will be in future when the room gets done properly

Strictly you shouldn't have any step down after a door but I reckon half the old properties fall foul of current building regulations. Mine does in many areas. I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[David_Vi]

Yeah. This is what I was going to say. I'm not 100% sure about the situation, but if it is a load-bearing wall (i.e. carrying upper floors) then you need a RSJ (rolled steel joist).

We were loosely estimated 5k for knocking through a much longer wall and supporting the upper floors of our house on an RSJ stretched across the remaining arch. Yours looks like it would be cheaper than that and we didn't go ahead with the works for various reasons, so don't know what else was included (e.g. making good the wall with plaster).

I thought this initially but we had a few quotes and different builders who seemed to think a lintel was sufficient, (well two lintels). This stuff does worry me though :|