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phpchap

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Hi there, thought I'd introduce myself as I've been lurking for a few months and say a bit about me-

I've only recently caught the pin flu, I went to play expo (NLP?) a few years ago and instantly got hooked on pinball, I've been back every year since!

After this years expo I decided I might actually be able to buy a pin (alongside paying for a wedding next year) if I was to shift a few bits of kit I don't use and do a bit of freelance work in the evenings.

Ideally I'd like a 90's Bally, something fairly difficult in terms of gameplay (I've seen a judge dredd for sale on ePay down the road from me and I'm going to contact the seller) otherwise I'll hold out into the new year and my budget would be about £1300-£1500

I've also been to pipeline in Liverpool Street to play their pins and will be joining the London pinball league in the new year, really enjoyed talking to the guys at NLP and also reading these forums.

Any advice for a noob would be appreciated


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ronsplooter

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Welcome to the forum @phpchap :thumbs: I'm probably going to be looking to shift on my Dr Who as I need the space for other games. I'd be looking for £1100 which is what I paid about 4 weeks ago :rofl: Shoot me a PM if interested and I'll get a proper For Sale thread up soon with some pics and info.
 

ronsplooter

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mission65

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welcome to the forum,you will have a good selection of pins to choose with 1300 - 1500
 

RGV

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Heya & Welcome. We should probably do a "Generally well-liked and lower-end price pins for a newcomer" thread...

Theres a lot of 90s B/W DMD pins you should be able to get in the sub £1500 range, even these days.
 
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stoptap

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Howdy newbie.

For that sort of money, and as a solitary pin, I would recommended a Roadshow. Tons of modes and lots of varied shots.
 

johnwhitfield

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Hi and welcome:)

Last London meet of this year is on the 19th Dec at the Pipeline.

Dawn should announce the venues for the SE league soon

Hope to see you there
 
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phpchap

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JDs galore on ebay at the moment. the one with the eagle is this nicest IMHO.

I've done a bit of research and JD has a pretty decent selection of game modes and you can get the spares quite easily (apart from the dead world motor)

The one above is only 5mins down the road, I've been asked to make an offer - I'm thinking £1200?

Also what kind of things should I look for? It comes with rubbers, manuals and a cover..

Cheers for the feedback, very helpful guys


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phpchap

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Hi and welcome:)

Last London meet of this year is on the 19th Dec at the Pipeline.

Dawn should announce the venues for the SE league soon

Hope to see you there

I saw the event about a week before but was going to Nottingham that weekend, saw the photos- will def be on that in 2016 ;)


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stoptap

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Check the ramps for damage. They are some big old ramps on JD and will be expensive to replace.
Check the Deadworld and crane too.
 
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DRD

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Hello

Welcome aboard.

£1,500 is ample to get a good first game. Something like a shadow, world cup soccer, roadshow, high speed 2, dr who ...

Unless you know your way around pinball machines, I would be wary of ebay for a first game. Plenty of folk who own a single game, been in the garage for 10 yeas, now giving trouble. Pinballs are like cars. They have maintenance issues due to age and also use. Real enthusiasts keep their games in tip top order by fixing niggles as they occur. Casual owners just keep using them until they break down. Early 90s games automatically disable broken features so that you can continue playing them, so a "working" game can be full of niggles

50-50 bet an eBay game will be poorly maintained. The differences between a maintained and an unmaintained game are things like

  • Blown bulbs - few quid
  • Perished rubber - ten quid
  • Wrong fuses in place - a board will fry one day
  • Dmd display with damage - 200 quid if unlucky
  • Broken plastics - 130 for a full set. Or If you are lucky you will find the 5 you need for 8 each by buying individually
  • Damaged ramp - 100 for a new one
  • Knackered flipper mechs 20 a pair to refurb
  • Couple of dead solenoids requiring £2 worth of electronics if you know how to solder components into the board, or a 40 board repair if you don't
I would try to buy a game from a known individual on here. Saddos like me on here fix all the above on a tired game when we buy them to bring them into good order
 
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stoptap

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Hello

Welcome aboard.

£1,500 is ample to get a good first game. Something like a shadow, world cup soccer, roadshow, high speed 2, dr who ...

Unless you know your way around pinball machines, I would be wary of ebay for a first game. Plenty of folk who own a single game, been in the garage for 10 yeas, now giving trouble. Pinballs are like cars. They have maintenance issues due to age and also use. Real enthusiasts keep their games in tip top order by fixing niggles as they occur. Casual owners just keep using them until they break down. Early 90s games automatically disable broken features so that you can continue playing them, so a "working" game can be full of niggles

50-50 bet an eBay game will be poorly maintained. The differences between a maintained and an unmaintained game are things like

  • Blown bulbs - few quid
  • Perished rubber - ten quid
  • Wrong fuses in place - a board will fry one day
  • Dmd display with damage - 200 quid if unlucky
  • Broken plastics - 130 for a full set. Or If you are lucky you will find the 5 you need for 8 each by buying individually
  • Damaged ramp - 100 for a new one
  • Knackered flipper mechs 20 a pair to refurb
  • Couple of dead solenoids requiring £2 worth of electronics if you know how to solder components into the board, or a 40 board repair if you don't
I would try to buy a game from a known individual on here. Saddos like me on here fix all the above on a tired game when we buy them to bring them into good order

Great advice. I'd also add that if you buy from somebody on here and something goes wrong you are pretty certain to get it sorted.
 
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phpchap

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Hello

Welcome aboard.

£1,500 is ample to get a good first game. Something like a shadow, world cup soccer, roadshow, high speed 2, dr who ...

Unless you know your way around pinball machines, I would be wary of ebay for a first game. Plenty of folk who own a single game, been in the garage for 10 yeas, now giving trouble. Pinballs are like cars. They have maintenance issues due to age and also use. Real enthusiasts keep their games in tip top order by fixing niggles as they occur. Casual owners just keep using them until they break down. Early 90s games automatically disable broken features so that you can continue playing them, so a "working" game can be full of niggles

50-50 bet an eBay game will be poorly maintained. The differences between a maintained and an unmaintained game are things like

  • Blown bulbs - few quid
  • Perished rubber - ten quid
  • Wrong fuses in place - a board will fry one day
  • Dmd display with damage - 200 quid if unlucky
  • Broken plastics - 130 for a full set. Or If you are lucky you will find the 5 you need for 8 each by buying individually
  • Damaged ramp - 100 for a new one
  • Knackered flipper mechs 20 a pair to refurb
  • Couple of dead solenoids requiring £2 worth of electronics if you know how to solder components into the board, or a 40 board repair if you don't
I would try to buy a game from a known individual on here. Saddos like me on here fix all the above on a tired game when we buy them to bring them into good order

Great advice, thanks for taking the time to write it.

I've been following the for sale threads and getting a pin from one of the community is a not a bad shout, the ePay pin is only down the road so might as well have a look ;)

I do have to factor in transport costs too because I don't drive I'd have to get a man and van (or someone who specialises in pinball/arcade transport)



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RGV

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Thanks for the welcome guys- this is the JD table on ePay- what are people's thoughts? http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/231773896535

Obviously nothing compares to actually seeing a machine in action - If you can convince a local pinhead to go have a look with you that's always a good idea before parting with over a grand for a pin. That said my severely non-expert comments below:

Pro's

Deadworld Mod which is a nice plus if it works ok. How the game was originally designed and better than the standard "virtual ball locks" imo. Not a huge impact on gameplay though if a machine has it or not.

Playfield looks in very nice condition as do plastics. JUDGE stickers on drop targets too which is a nice attention to detail addition. Can't see the ramps too well, so double check for cracks etc up close, but nothing obvious in pics (bloody blue LED strip doesn't help tho).

Cab looks ok. Different colour flipper buttons for some reason, but that's pennies to change if you wanted.

You get a free cover for it which is always nice for keeping the nasty sun off the cab decals.


Concerns (May be nothing but assume the worst and be pleasantly surprised if wrong):

No Eagle topper (No biggie, it doesn't do anything other than sit there and look pretty. If you want one it will cost you a few quid to get a replacement though, if you can find one)

Not many shots of DMD in action. Probably nothing, but check the display's ok when you play a demo game if you go have a look at it. Plenty of animations on JD so should soon see if any issues. Also one of the test menu options will run a complete line by line DMD check.

There IS a credit dot visible on one of the shots showing the DMD - Worth checking what comes up on the startup error menu. Could be just "Date:Time not set" (although that could be an indication of dead batteries which makes you start worrying about leakage onto boards...), could be Deadworld motor buggered...

An interesting omission is the lack of photos of the boards in the backbox. Could be an oversight, could be the batteries have leaked everywhere and/ or the boards are hacked to hell and back. Be wary, especially on eBay. Listing specifically states backbox key is available so not sure why they'd not take at least one board photo. Definitely check when you go have a look.

In summary:

£1200 is, in my opinion, a fair offer for a good condition JD if the credit dot is something minor like a switch or date:time issue and everything else checks out to your satisfaction (especially the backbox boards), although if its all in order as per description the seller wouldn't be massively unreasonable if he wanted a little more. Not much though - I wouldn't ever say JD is a £1500+ machine for example, even with the Deadworld mod (and I DO like JD).

At that point its very much a case of how much you want it vs how low he's prepared to let it go for (he says it cost £1200 originally and hes spent £1000 on it. That doesn't make it a £2200 game by any stretch, although it may make for inflated ideas of its worth on the part of the seller). There's always going to be another one in a month or two, so no hurry to buy on your part (heck there's 2 other JD's on the bay at the mo as it is).

Finally however, I'm with @DRD personally - eBays a bit of a dodgy place at best. For anything. Pins can be like classic cars - The bodywork can look shiny and be in amazing condition but the engine, gearbox, etc can still be F**ked beyond belief out of sight of the casual punter and not noticed until later. Don't buy anything sight unseen and always be prepared to walk away if anythings not answered to your satisfaction or even if the table just doesn't seem to be what you wanted after a couple of test games.

Well... That went on a lot longer than I intended when I first started typing, sorry about that. Hope I've not totally put you off the idea completely. We can now pause for the real experts to come along and shoot holes in everything I've just said :)

Rog
 
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Paul

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Great points there from @RGV there.

the only other one i would add is - make sure there's no Major Playfield damage - any holes haven't got massive chunks out of them, any large lumps missing.

All basic checks really. Ramps can easily (if expensively) be replaced - finding and replacing a playfield is a different entire ballgame! :D
 
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phpchap

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Obviously nothing compares to actually seeing a machine in action - If you can convince a local pinhead to go have a look with you that's always a good idea before parting with over a grand for a pin. That said my severely non-expert comments below:

Pro's

Deadworld Mod which is a nice plus if it works ok. How the game was originally designed and better than the standard "virtual ball locks" imo. Not a huge impact on gameplay though if a machine has it or not.

Playfield looks in very nice condition as do plastics. JUDGE stickers on drop targets too which is a nice attention to detail addition. Can't see the ramps too well, so double check for cracks etc up close, but nothing obvious in pics (bloody blue LED strip doesn't help tho).

Cab looks ok. Different colour flipper buttons for some reason, but that's pennies to change if you wanted.

You get a free cover for it which is always nice for keeping the nasty sun off the cab decals.


Concerns (May be nothing but assume the worst and be pleasantly surprised if wrong):

No Eagle topper (No biggie, it doesn't do anything other than sit there and look pretty. If you want one it will cost you a few quid to get a replacement though, if you can find one)

Not many shots of DMD in action. Probably nothing, but check the display's ok when you play a demo game if you go have a look at it. Plenty of animations on JD so should soon see if any issues. Also one of the test menu options will run a complete line by line DMD check.

There IS a credit dot visible on one of the shots showing the DMD - Worth checking what comes up on the startup error menu. Could be just "Date:Time not set" (although that could be an indication of dead batteries which makes you start worrying about leakage onto boards...), could be Deadworld motor buggered...

An interesting omission is the lack of photos of the boards in the backbox. Could be an oversight, could be the batteries have leaked everywhere and/ or the boards are hacked to hell and back. Be wary, especially on eBay. Listing specifically states backbox key is available so not sure why they'd not take at least one board photo. Definitely check when you go have a look.

In summary:

£1200 is, in my opinion, a fair offer for a good condition JD if the credit dot is something minor like a switch or date:time issue and everything else checks out to your satisfaction (especially the backbox boards), although if its all in order as per description the seller wouldn't be massively unreasonable if he wanted a little more. Not much though - I wouldn't ever say JD is a £1500+ machine for example, even with the Deadworld mod (and I DO like JD).

At that point its very much a case of how much you want it vs how low he's prepared to let it go for (he says it cost £1200 originally and hes spent £1000 on it. That doesn't make it a £2200 game by any stretch, although it may make for inflated ideas of its worth on the part of the seller). There's always going to be another one in a month or two, so no hurry to buy on your part (heck there's 2 other JD's on the bay at the mo as it is).

Finally however, I'm with @DRD personally - eBays a bit of a dodgy place at best. For anything. Pins can be like classic cars - The bodywork can look shiny and be in amazing condition but the engine, gearbox, etc can still be F**ked beyond belief out of sight of the casual punter and not noticed until later. Don't buy anything sight unseen and always be prepared to walk away if anythings not answered to your satisfaction or even if the table just doesn't seem to be what you wanted after a couple of test games.

Well... That went on a lot longer than I intended when I first started typing, sorry about that. Hope I've not totally put you off the idea completely. We can now pause for the real experts to come along and shoot holes in everything I've just said :)

Rog

Thank you for taking a look and your feedback, it's appreciated-

I totally wouldn't have spotted the credit dot , thanks for highlighting that - will def check the boards in the back box for signs of battery leakage- like you said it might look ok but the real problems might be masked.

also some great advice about getting a local pinhead to cast an expert opinion on the overall condition of the table, would be happy to pay travel expenses, cash for their time and throw in a decent bottle of their favourite tipple before I part with the children's xmas present money (I don't actually have children)

Will take a few vids and pics, not heard anything back yet..

Thanks again!




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J.C.Rox

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Hi mate, I'm not too far from you,
This is the sellers last thread about this pin and last time he tried to sell it I went and saw it and offered 1200. Showed him a nicer one with eagle topper that sold on ebay for 1175 to justify my offer. He wanted to wait and see how ebay went then later he pulled the listing and didn't sell to anyone.
http://www.pinballinfo.com/community/threads/bally-judge-dredd-pinball-machine.23728/

He might take 1200 but if he won't shake on it then and there, then don't waste your time, plenty of other great pins on this forum for sale. Good luck and keep us posted..
 
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phpchap

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I have to say this community rocks, nothing gets past you guys ;)

What was your impression of the pin when you saw it, was the credit dot error there?

I've not heard anything back as of yet and the eBay listing has been updated since I made the offer of £1200 so it seems that this seller wants more for his pin which is fair enough.

I might drop the seller a note and see what's happening, I could probably stretch a bit more but not beyond £1300




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DRD

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We try to help each other out. These games are very complex, and fault finding can be tricky. But with so many knowledgeable folk on here, you can often get a fault correctly diagnosed within hours and that can save you a lot of graft.

A good move for you would be to go to local league events. There are two basic formats

Ukcs which are one or two day tournaments around the country that result in a winner on the day. About 30 to 100 might turn up depending on the nature of it

Uk league - regional tournaments. Around 30 might turn up. Everyone plays every game there and scores are taken down and tallied at the year end

http://ukpinballleague.co.uk

The league are perhaps a bit less competitive with a wider range of abilities turning up. At both formats you get a mixture of abilities as some in the hobby are in it as they enjoy renovation, others mainly play them.

If you go to these, get to know folk. Try out games. Build your knowledge etc. finding someone to look over a game with you can be really helpful as two heads are better than one and it makes moving them easier
 
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Jay Walker

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Hi, php,

I used to live in Surbiton, when I worked as a serviceman for a local operator. The street view in one of the photos looks like the road leading to/from the station.

My remarks on the machine;

  • I'm sure Judge Dredd didn't follow the Bally convention of using black legs - it would've been supplied with 'Gold' ones
  • The main flipper paddles don't seem to be set at the same level, on Ju/Dredd I used to set them with the flipper bands aligned with the run-on guides
  • The game was supplied with different spring-backing blades on the flipper buttons, causing a different 'feel' each side
  • What's that cable-tie doing, holding the r/h large button together?
Re. the 'Credit Dot' situation - if you're looking at a WMS (Williams & post '87 Bally) with a dot showing, then it'll show what's the matter (or what it thinks is the matter) as a 'Test Report' when the 'Enter' button inside the coin door's pressed. Don't press the button again (or let the seller do so), it'll stop the announcement. The usual (false) report on Judge Dredd in commercial use was for an optic switch in the ball storage trough, simply from no-one playing the 'Super Game' and releasing all six balls into play. That wouldn't be surprising at £1/Credit, a Super game would be £2.
 
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J.C.Rox

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I honestly can't remember a credit dot or that much about it I'm afraid. I wanted a JD and at the time was happy to offer what I did bit I wouldn't go higher. If I had the cash I'd go after the one with the Eagle topper on ebay.
 
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phpchap

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I honestly can't remember a credit dot or that much about it I'm afraid. I wanted a JD and at the time was happy to offer what I did bit I wouldn't go higher. If I had the cash I'd go after the one with the Eagle topper on ebay.

Hey man, just spoke to the chap (Peter) and he mentioned he tried to sell it before but decided to hold onto it (probably cause he didn't get enough £££)

Also he mentioned that he wanted £1500, however I said my budget will be £1350 - for the sake of £150 we will see.

I asked about the credit dot bug (cheers for the tip) and said it was the trough detector and doesn't affect gameplay, he also said he's uploaded videos on the ePay listing.

I'm going to have a look at JD in Berrylands Saturday morning (10.30am) if you're available I would appreciate your thoughts and will pay for your time.

Many thanks and thanks to everyone else :)


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ronsplooter

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the trough detector and doesn't affect gameplay

Fully working trough and crane opto's are very important on a JD with a deadworld mod fitted. The game needs early prototype ROM code to make the deadworld mod work and this is very susceptible to dodgy opto's and can cause all sorts of weirdness!