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Gottlieb Spin-A-Card

hiflyer

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Joined
Mar 5, 2020
Messages
11
Location
Essex
Hi, I am trying to fix a Gottlieb Spin-A-Card which refuses to start unless I manually push the start relay which will start the motor. Pushing the replay button (it's on freeplay) will then start the game and activate the relay bank reset. The game will then play and finish normally with the game over relay pulling in OK. The next game will not start again unless I go through the same procedure. The motor appears to be in the correct position for starting a game and seems to be working normally.
Is it normal for the tilt relay on the relay bank to pull in immediately the game is powered up (i.e. backglass lit only and no playfield lights)? The tilt relay resets OK when the game starts and the playfield lights up and doesn't pull in again unless it's an actual tilt.
Any help appreciated.
 
Three questions
1.Do you have the schematic for the game?
2. Do you know what method has been used to set the game on freeplay?
3. Do you have a multimeter with a "continuity buzzer" function?

I don't have the schematic for Spin a Card so my comments are based on a sing along schematic

On that game, and assuming the game only has one coin chute, the replay button should activate the start relay through switches on the start relay itself, the replay unit, the tilt relay, and motor 1C.

*** Take great care - this circuit runs on mains voltage and should only be worked on with the game disconnected from the electricity supply. ***

I would start by looking at the motor switch. As well as making sure it is nice and clean and making properly, check particularly if the motor is coming to rest with the blades properly sitting in the "depression" - sometimes the motor can be already moving past its rest point, particularly if there is a "brake" blade which has broken off.

If that doesn't work check the other switches in the circuit.

If you have the multimeter AND WITH THE GAME UNPLUGGED FROM THE MAINS I think you should get continuity from one side of the replay button switch to the coil on the start relay. If not it indicates one of the switches in between is not making correctly.

If you have the schematic and can post the bit below the transformer (and if possible the relay code/description list from the RHS I can firm up on the above

Where are you in the country?

David
 
Three questions
1.Do you have the schematic for the game?
2. Do you know what method has been used to set the game on freeplay?
3. Do you have a multimeter with a "continuity buzzer" function?

I don't have the schematic for Spin a Card so my comments are based on a sing along schematic

On that game, and assuming the game only has one coin chute, the replay button should activate the start relay through switches on the start relay itself, the replay unit, the tilt relay, and motor 1C.

*** Take great care - this circuit runs on mains voltage and should only be worked on with the game disconnected from the electricity supply. ***

I would start by looking at the motor switch. As well as making sure it is nice and clean and making properly, check particularly if the motor is coming to rest with the blades properly sitting in the "depression" - sometimes the motor can be already moving past its rest point, particularly if there is a "brake" blade which has broken off.

If that doesn't work check the other switches in the circuit.

If you have the multimeter AND WITH THE GAME UNPLUGGED FROM THE MAINS I think you should get continuity from one side of the replay button switch to the coil on the start relay. If not it indicates one of the switches in between is not making correctly.

If you have the schematic and can post the bit below the transformer (and if possible the relay code/description list from the RHS I can firm up on the above

Where are you in the country?

David
Sorry that should have been LHS not RHS
 
Thank you, David. I will have another crack at it today and get back to you. At least I now know that the tilt relay is probably not malfunctioning.
In answer to your questions:-
I have the lower two thirds of a schematic which is just about readable.
The motor is in the correct position and I have cleaned/checked all the switches on it.
Freeplay is by a switch attached to the credit unit in the back box. I have also tried just putting on credits by turning the wheel.
I am in Essex.

Peter
 
Peter, send me a photo of the lower part of your schematic if you can.

I've just been looking at the schematic for my hearts and Spades (add a ball version of spin a card) and it looks as if by that age the circuit through the coin switch (no replay button on an add-a-ball) had been changed to the 25v circuit so my previous description won't be valid)

If you don't have the multimeter, you could run a jumper wire straight from the replay button to the start relay coil and check it starts OK like that.

You are a long way from me, but James at Majestic pinball is local to you and does repairs if you get stuck.
 
I have taken a pic of the lower part of the diagram. Hopefully it will appear here. I do have a multimeter and will attempt your suggestions.
Peterspin-a-card.JPG
 
OK Peter
Here is the circuit we are looking at

1598189179301.png

You didn't give me the table to interpret the letter codes, but I'm using a schematic from a Fun Land and it looks similar to yours in this area
Before I get into any detail, I should say that it is generally accepted that Gottlieb schematics are drawn in the following way (copied from the Pinrepair website which is the "bible" for fixing games :) ):

"How are the Schematics Drawn?
There's a fair amount of confusion about this. My understanding is that schematics are drawn with the game reset (all score reels at zero), ready to play, for one player at first ball, and the game's power is turned off. If you're confused about whether the schematics are drawn with the power on or off, just look at the Hold relay's switches - this relay is energized when the game is on, so if the schematic were drawn with the game "on", then these Hold relay switches would be triggered. Note on Gottlieb games the schematics are also drawn with zero credits on the credit wheel (Williams and Bally schematics seem to be drawn with credits on the wheel.) "


So - your start relay solenoid is shown on the left of the highlighted path
Then, working from the main power circuit (red white wire) on the right hand side there are three normally closed switches before you get to the replay button (Motor 2B, An anti cheat switch (maybe behind the door or on the mechanism board) and on the SB relay.
You should therefore have continuity all the way from the 15A fuse to one side of the replay button switch - if not check out those three switches.

If that checks out OK then working onwards from the replay button you have another motor switch before the replay unit
The switch on the replay unit is the one I think gets bypassed by your freeplay modification, but in any case you said you had tried adding credits manually on the wheel. Obviously normally if there are no credits on the wheel this switch is open and you can't start games from the button

After the replay unit you have two paths and this is where it might get a bit confusing (for you and for me!): This is the way I interpret it:
The "normal" route to starting a game will be through the zero position switch on the ball count unit - this will be closed in any state of the machine except when you have just started a game when it will be open to prevent you accidentally starting two games and thereby using up 2 credits by holding in the replay button too long
Obviously this would mean if the game was tilted or turned off as soon as you had started a game it would subsequently be impossible to start a game as the ball count unit would be at zero and the switch would be open interrupting the circuit
Hence the need for the alternate route - when the game is in "Tilt" the switch on the Tilt relay (TB on your game I think, T on Fun Land) will be closed, completing the circuit from the replay button to the start relay

It's possible I've got this wrong, but it is clear that the two switches are ones to check in solving this problem in any case


The final bit of the circuitry is to do with multiple coin chutes so you may not have a W relay, but if you do there is a switch on there which needs to be closed.

Again, I think you should be able to check the integrity of the second half of this circuit by testing continuity between one side of the replay button switch and the start relay coil.

When checking out the various switches remember that the schematic shows you the colour of the wires you are looking for, so that should make it easier to identify the relevant switches

Hope that helps - let me know how you get on
 
Thank you. That is very helpful. I will give it another try tomorrow. At least I was thinking along the same lines as you. So that is encouraging for me.
 
David, just to let you know I am still having a crack at this. Your help has been much appreciated. I am starting to work through the possibilities.
 
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