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Genie is tripping the house circuit breaker

R

RichS

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Mar 17, 2022
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Location
Bexhill on Sea
Hi all. I have a really odd problem with a restored Gottlieb Genie that I sold 8 months ago. I always try to help someone if they bought a game from me. The game was fully restored with a new Pascal "All in one Board fitted. The transformer board had new Bridge rectifiers and capacitor etc. It has worked perfectly until yesterday when I got a call from the buyer. He says that when he turns it on, it trips the house circuit breaker. I have not seen the game yet but as far as I am aware if it was anything on the low voltage side of the machine including the pascal board, it would blow the fuses on the board. Am I correct in saying it has to be either the Bridge rectifiers, Transformer , Mains filter or mains cable. What else would cause such a short circuit? Any Ideas are much appreciated
 
I moved two pins from the house to a pinshed and they suddenly started doing the same. The breakers were a lot more sensitive in the shed.

Read the description to this gadget. Stops the power surge when the pin is switched on. I’d guess there is nothing wrong with the machine.

CANFORD MAINS INRUSH CURRENT LIMITER 230V

42-742 | CANFORD AC MAINS POWER INRUSH CURRENT LIMITER | This device is useful where the current drawn from the mains supply by a piece of equipment at switch-on (eg. an audio power amplifier) is considerably higher than the steady state current…
www.canford.co.uk www.canford.co.uk
 
OK it is worth noting that RCDs will pick up Neutral-Earth leaks that will not trip other circuit protectors (fuses/MCBs) as they operate on a live line fault

Had this at home with a light from Ikea of all things and took me ages to track it down - RCDs also quite sensitive

Hope that helps to look in the right direction

Jeff
 
Thank your for your replies guys. Am I correct in saying it has to be on the transformer board as the guy has had the machine without problems for many months. I think I will go and change the line filter and bridge rectifiers just in case one has gone leaky. While I am on I have to sing the praises of the Pascal All in one board. It is fantastic and installed like a dream. The absolute nightmare was re-pinning all those connectors but worth it in the end. Thanks again guys

Rich
 
One follow up question guys... Are line filter really needed in the home use environment? House mains in the UK is very stable and has minimal spikes. It just seems it is one more thing to go wrong?
 
Yes, as the line filter is there to suppress overlaid high frequencies (EMF) on the incoming power. This is generated by cheap switching supplies eg or interference, so leave it in. The bridge rectifiers on the other hand are behind the transformer, pretty sure they will test OK.
 
drhex said:
Yes, as the line filter is there to suppress overlaid high frequencies (EMF) on the incoming power. This is generated by cheap switching supplies eg or interference, so leave it in. The bridge rectifiers on the other hand are behind the transformer, pretty sure they will test OK.
Click to expand...
Thank you for you help
 
Sorry , i have a similar issue with my whirlwind. Would it be the same fault ? it doesn’t happen all the time and only takes out the 20amp MCB
 
SeikoKid said:
Sorry , i have a similar issue with my whirlwind. Would it be the same fault ? it doesn’t happen all the time and only takes out the 20amp MCB
Click to expand...

I had the same on a Whirlwind and DE JP but only in my pinshed. The DE JP not done it once in the house during refurb. It’s probably a surge in drawing power when switching on.

CANFORD MAINS INRUSH CURRENT LIMITER 230V

42-742 | CANFORD AC MAINS POWER INRUSH CURRENT LIMITER | This device is useful where the current drawn from the mains supply by a piece of equipment at switch-on (eg. an audio power amplifier) is considerably higher than the steady state current…
www.canford.co.uk www.canford.co.uk
 
Yes it didn’t do it in the summer house but since the machine has been in the house it does it. i might just swap the mcb for a motor rated type then and try that first.

You don’t think it could be this line converter failing
 
I don’t think so. My pinshed has way more sensitive breakers. I get it on two Data East machines and Whirlwind every now and again in the shed but never in the house. I’ve got every socket in the shed on a separate breaker so it isn’t specific to one breaker.

It never happens on WPC machines - just System 11 and Data East.
 
RichS said:
Thank your for your replies guys. Am I correct in saying it has to be on the transformer board as the guy has had the machine without problems for many months. I think I will go and change the line filter and bridge rectifiers just in case one has gone leaky. While I am on I have to sing the praises of the Pascal All in one board. It is fantastic and installed like a dream. The absolute nightmare was re-pinning all those connectors but worth it in the end. Thanks again guys

Rich
Click to expand...

Where did you get your pins for the connectors Rich? I see them on ebay about 3 quid for 20, also on Farnell but you need to buy a thousand!

Cheers Ronnie
 
i’ll try a C rated mcb and let you know. I normally use higher types when wiring motor circuits or commercial equipment outside. I just wanted to check here first if there was something known i was not aware of on these older machines

Would seem the 50m cable run to my summerhouse is absorbing the little spike in current being pulled on start up , the machine is only meters away from the fuse board in the house - And does not take out the rcbo, just the local
mcb 20amp though is a fair amount to pull though, but given the size of that transformer in the base ….
 
SeikoKid said:
i’ll try a C rated mcb and let you know. I normally use higher types when wiring motor circuits or commercial equipment outside. I just wanted to check here first if there was something known i was not aware of on these older machines

Would seem the 50m cable run to my summerhouse is absorbing the little spike in current being pulled on start up , the machine is only meters away from the fuse board in the house - And does not take out the rcbo, just the local
mcb 20amp though is a fair amount to pull though, but given the size of that transformer in the base …
Click to expand...
Might be the 20a mcb, I’ve seen some that just trip like that and once replaced like for like all is good.
Could try it on a 32a sockets circuit if you have one in there.
 
It’s a new install i did last year. Wylex brand. Not come across that before having to swap out breakers. But i will but still update it to c or d type. My air compressor and jet wash are on that circuit anyways so won’t harm

fyi, This is hager I swapped out thursday - we don’t like hager
 

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Yeah that’s crap😂 I have used Crabtree for years without any issues on high demand too.
Ive only had a few dodgy breakers in the last 20 years but that’s with hundreds being fitted.
 
When the were pins in the house the sockets are on B32 MCB which never tripped, moved them into their new room and the existing B16 tripped every-time I turned on Robocop and after a few days Tommy did too.
Replaced the B16 for a C32 and they’ve been fine since.
 
SeikoKid said:
It’s a new install i did last year. Wylex brand. Not come across that before having to swap out breakers. But i will but still update it to c or d type. My air compressor and jet wash are on that circuit anyways so won’t harm

fyi, This is hager I swapped out thursday - we don’t like hager
Click to expand...
That's the weirdest perspective going on in that photo - it looks like the MCB is massive and your feet are tiny!
 
Crewey said:
When the were pins in the house the sockets are on B32 MCB which never tripped, moved them into their new room and the existing B16 tripped every-time I turned on Robocop and after a few days Tommy did too.
Replaced the B16 for a C32 and they’ve been fine since.
Click to expand...
You put a 32a mcb?

Are you running a ring main or a radial

If its a radial that is dangerous as 2.5mm takes 20a tops!

I would suggest a C20 mcb
 
Pick Holder said:
You put a 32a mcb?

Are you running a ring main or a radial

If its a radial that is dangerous as 2.5mm takes 20a tops!

I would suggest a C20 mcb
Click to expand...
Probably ok as he knows what he is pulling through it, it’s the next owner who doesn't know where the danger happens.

EDIT: Should never assume but I learnt the hard way when I was 10, I plugged a cable in and touched the red and black wires together🫣
 
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Pick Holder said:
You put a 32a mcb?

Are you running a ring main or a radial

If its a radial that is dangerous as 2.5mm takes 20a tops!

I would suggest a C20
Click to expand...

Edited post;
Just asked the electrician who did the work it is a 2.5mm on radial, so I need to swap it for a C20

(I mentioned to 2 electricians I was doing this beforehand and neither of them raised this :( )
 
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Unplug the transformer (game end) then if still tripping, unplug transformer, if still trips keep disconnecting stuff until you get to the wall plug :D
 
Crewey said:
C32, what’s the simplest way to identify ring or radial please ?
There’s an RCD off each of the sets of upstairs and downstairs MCBs too.

(I mentioned to 2 electricians I was doing this and neither of them raised this :( )
Click to expand...
You will see two lots of cables on a ring circuit and only one for a radial.
So two live cables going into the mcb for ring or one for radial etc
 
SeikoKid said:
It’s a new install i did last year. Wylex brand. Not come across that before having to swap out breakers. But i will but still update it to c or d type. My air compressor and jet wash are on that circuit anyways so won’t harm

fyi, This is hager I swapped out thursday - we don’t like hager
Click to expand...
Sorry to derail the thread, but are they huge breakers or tiny feet?? ;)
 
A mate of mine is a 50yr old electrician. He says that the power supply from the grid is the worst he has ever known. In the old days it was smooth, reliable, boring.

Nowadays it is constantly changing. Wind. Coal. Nuclear. Gas. All over the place

Poor old Genie is a 40 plus year old game. I thought my Genie caused electrical problems. But I disconnected her and the problems remained. I reckon my 5 yr old AEG cookers, microwave, hob .. are the source of my problems.

I'd suggest you move your breakers to C type RCBOs.

Good luck. It is a very frustrating problem
 
Ashbo said:
Sorry to derail the thread, but are they huge breakers or tiny feet?? ;)
Click to expand...
heh, both and thanks for the compliment

( Spoiler - the rcbos are on my porch wall which is 1m off the ground )

Fyi, those bad boys were £166 after my discount net* - thankfully i don’t do domestic work so no complaining about cost , just get it back working ….
 
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