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- Thread starter Paul
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There's a report button in your screenshot
My eyes have been well and truly opened these last few days. I don’t mix in the kind of circles that think causal racism is funny or bantz, so it’s been pretty depressing to see the professional provocateurs pile on and victim blame.
I don’t have a pin at the minute but come in here daily for the company and the interesting mix of views. Anxiety is a constant struggle for me but I’ve been psyching myself to attend more events this year. Frankly I’m more inclined to delete my account after what I’ve been reading here.
I don’t have a pin at the minute but come in here daily for the company and the interesting mix of views. Anxiety is a constant struggle for me but I’ve been psyching myself to attend more events this year. Frankly I’m more inclined to delete my account after what I’ve been reading here.
What @Jackpot shared was very powerful and thought provoking. I don't think anyone here ignored it. I also don't think anyone in this thread disagrees that it was right for the comments made by Colin to be challenged and it was absolutely right for the Mods to take action. The only point up for debate was the length of the ban given the full circumstances seemed harsh. A private conversation between the Mods and Colin and short cooling off period would probably have been sufficient. Please also don't mistake people trying to be humerous as not understanding or taking onboard what is being said. I fully understand the negative impact of racism or of any hurtful comments directed at anyone. It is not acceptable. However it is also important to be able to challenge things that we perceive to be unfair and there is absolutely nothing wrong with trying to be humorous if the intention is purely to try and make people laugh or smile.
To be fair, Kirk, the post from @Jackpot had 34 positive likes - by far the most reactions on this thread. His similar post on the WhatsApp group got a similar positive reaction (although with more direct replies).
I for one really appreciated him taking the time to post what he did, as it can't have been easy. I'm sure many others also appreciated his post judging by the "likes" it got.
I think that what didn't help the change in direction of this thread shortly after his post was Vee dropping a bit of a bombshell post, which inevitably sparked quite some reaction.
I think your comment about the worth of people posting is maybe a little harsh, given the above, however, that's just my opinion, and is genuinely not meant to offend anyone.
University educated boomer here. In 1970’s there was a huge amount of racism and offensive language- at uni and everywhere else. Bernard Manning 1970’s. But not sure if he went to university…
I have no idea why anyone would think going to university or not is relevant.
I see someone is quoted as having a theory…. There is also a theory the earth is flat
Whilst this is an amusing thread now. I actually think the issue has been lost. There are rules and consequences if not followed.
This is a great forum and the moderators should be supported and thanked for what they do
I have no idea why anyone would think going to university or not is relevant.
I see someone is quoted as having a theory…. There is also a theory the earth is flat
Whilst this is an amusing thread now. I actually think the issue has been lost. There are rules and consequences if not followed.
This is a great forum and the moderators should be supported and thanked for what they do
I found @jackpot’s comment incredibly powerful, and had been waiting to post my own thoughts until I’d seen what he (or someone else directly affected) might post. Huge apologies that it created an (accidental) bombshell
My lived experience is that more older people, and people who haven’t encountered the progressive UK university memeplex, use outdated racist language. When called out, they often become fearful, anxious and defensive - and their minds are closed, at that point.
Thus, I’ve found it better to assume someone using racist language didn’t get the memo than it is to assume they took a break from their vintage collection of Die Sturmer to purposefully engage in some vile racist abuse. Otherwise, online communities devolve into manic ban hammering of people who just needed a gentle explanation of why they were being hurtful - as @Jackpot has been generous enough to do.
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I wouldn't necessarily jump to that conclusion. These days, many people are allies to marginalised groups and speak out against racism, discrimination etc. It has to be a good thing.
Careful Vee. As an older person living in Scotland I may need to report this….. may I suggest age is not relevant.I found @jackpot’s comment incredibly powerful, and had been waiting to post my own thoughts until I’d seen what he (or someone else directly affected) might post. Huge apologies that it created an (accidental) bombshell
My lived experience is that older people, and people who haven’t encountered the progressive UK university memeplex, tend to use more outdated racist language. When called out, they often become fearful, anxious and defensive - and their minds are closed, at that point.
Thus, I’ve found it better to assume someone using racist language didn’t get the memo than it is to assume they took a break from their vintage collection of Die Sturmer to purposefully engage in some vile racist abuse. Otherwise, online communities devolve into manic ban hammering of people who just needed a gentle explanation of why they were being hurtful - as @Jackpot has been generous enough to do.
That would be sad - please don't do that, as I think I mentioned earlier, the pinball community at meets and events has been great, some really top quality people. I'd really encourage you to give it a try.
Some others who have had similar concerns/worries have given it a go and really enjoyed it / not looked back.
If you're going to quote a theory form someone, surely it takes 2 minutes to actually fact check and Google him.
The 'cultural elite' have not in the past been the best examples for setting standards of what others in society should follow.
Yes indeed, I met my first drug dealers, rapist, members of the BNP, future murderer, students from all over Europe who enjoyed watching Eurovision, and encountered my first ever pinball machine when I went to Uni.
WTAF?
To keep it short!
Can anything be done to shorten colin’s ban, it’s seems everyone who has posted agrees it was right to do something about what he wrote, (stupid of him), but 6 months is to much!
He should be asked/made to post a formal apology, after a reduced ban, following on we have all learnt something from this.
Boom!,
No one will think any less of admin for changing the decision, I would like to add there is a lot of people shocked and annoyed by the length of the ban that have not posted.
Cheers
Itch
Can anything be done to shorten colin’s ban, it’s seems everyone who has posted agrees it was right to do something about what he wrote, (stupid of him), but 6 months is to much!
He should be asked/made to post a formal apology, after a reduced ban, following on we have all learnt something from this.
Boom!,
No one will think any less of admin for changing the decision, I would like to add there is a lot of people shocked and annoyed by the length of the ban that have not posted.
Cheers
Itch
I think we just need to close this thread. With every reply, more and more people seem to be getting offended.
This is the exact reason race, religion and politics are banned from a lot of forums.
Let's just stop and get back to pinball.
This is the exact reason race, religion and politics are banned from a lot of forums.
Let's just stop and get back to pinball.
I feel offended that big Phil has suggested more people are getting offended without doing a poll, or at least doing the descent morally correct procedure of only posting on sensible topics if university educated
They say a picture speaks a thousand words…..to regain faith in the pinball community…. Here we see British Chinese and a Jehovah’s Witness enjoying pinball together in peace and unity.
Amen to that!……Peace and best wishes to you all…. Keef.
Amen to that!……Peace and best wishes to you all…. Keef.
@new forest pinball I don't think @stevebm1 would of meant that in a nasty way I myself have JWs in the family my uncle (dad's brother) and my cousin her husband and kids on my mums side. Nothing against the religion atall but you do get really pushy ones (not all) who knock at the door in groups and no matter what you say won't accept you want to be left alone. This is the same with sales though we had a guy recently who knocked about talk talk internet I told him I already had Internet and was happy .. he asked who else lived with me I replied my gf he said could you get her for me I said no she's in bed sick (she really was) he then said will you just wake her up for me.. I was like are you for real? See you later.
No disrespect atall to you in this post keef your a great guy but hope you understand what I mean.
I do also understand where you are coming from and Steve didn't have to say it as if its only jws that keep you gabbing at the door.
No disrespect atall to you in this post keef your a great guy but hope you understand what I mean.
I do also understand where you are coming from and Steve didn't have to say it as if its only jws that keep you gabbing at the door.
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I have messaged keith to explain that post,sorry if anyone felt offended by it,as I said to him,it is not a dig at religion,it could be double glazing salesmen,charity collectors or anyone else knocking at your door who chats for ages,the point I was trying to make,was how long vector takes to say all it’s phrases,sorry once again to anyone offended by that post
Steve
Steve
There’s a ‘Thank you ‘ thread…. Looks like we’re gonna need a ‘Sorry’ thread at this rate.
I just give a firm but polite "Thank you, I'm not interested" and shut the door.@new forest pinball I don't think @stevebm1 would of meant that in a nasty way I myself have JWs in the family my uncle (dad's brother) and my cousin her husband and kids on my mums side. Nothing against the religion atall but you do get really pushy ones (not all) who knock at the door in groups and no matter what you say won't accept you want to be left alone. This is the same with sales though we had a guy recently who knocked about talk talk internet I told him I already had Internet and was happy .. he asked who else lived with me I replied my gf he said could you get her for me I said no she's in bed sick (she really was) he then said will you just wake her up for me.. I was like are you for real? See you later.
No disrespect atall to you in this post keef your a great guy but hope you understand what I mean.
I do also understand where you are coming from and Steve didn't have to say it as if its only jws that keep you gabbing at the door.
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If racism and using racist terms is unacceptable and the majority agree it should have a "zero tolerance" policy, you can't then not ban someone who uses racist terms or give them a shorter ban because they are well liked. You either have a no tolerance policy, or you don't. Reducing the ban makes it sets the precedent that any language is tolerated as long as you apologise after, or it's only a month ban so it doesn't matter.
I think by arguing for a shorter ban, people are dismissing the impact of racist language. Not intentionally, but that's the message it gives.
Maybe re-read what @Jackpot said - jokes that use racist stereotypes and use racist language are hurtful and do cause damage. Even if the person making them didn't intend it. I don't think people are getting it...
I think this article is really well written about the significance of casual and everyday racism. While it doesn't specifically mention jokes (just addresses questions people ask) I think the points it makes are relevant - https://ideas.ted.com/everyday-comments-and-questions-that-are-actually-racist/
I'm sorry you feel unwelcome because of what's happened, @Pooman2084. I hope you will stick around and come to some meets. The UK pinball league is a great place to start if you are looking for something a bit more laid back to start with. I don't know where you're based but I run lots of events in East Anglia that are inclusive and welcoming to everyone. Feel free to message me for a chat.
I think by arguing for a shorter ban, people are dismissing the impact of racist language. Not intentionally, but that's the message it gives.
Maybe re-read what @Jackpot said - jokes that use racist stereotypes and use racist language are hurtful and do cause damage. Even if the person making them didn't intend it. I don't think people are getting it...
I think this article is really well written about the significance of casual and everyday racism. While it doesn't specifically mention jokes (just addresses questions people ask) I think the points it makes are relevant - https://ideas.ted.com/everyday-comments-and-questions-that-are-actually-racist/
I'm sorry you feel unwelcome because of what's happened, @Pooman2084. I hope you will stick around and come to some meets. The UK pinball league is a great place to start if you are looking for something a bit more laid back to start with. I don't know where you're based but I run lots of events in East Anglia that are inclusive and welcoming to everyone. Feel free to message me for a chat.
I try my best to be nice to anyone but have had it a few times the same people knock time and time again
Been pointed out this might be taken the wrong way. Just a joke to be clear! It just came to mind, classic.
No more Collywobs plastics for you thenIf racism and using racist terms is unacceptable and the majority agree it should have a "zero tolerance" policy, you can't then not ban someone who uses racist terms or give them a shorter ban because they are well liked. You either have a no tolerance policy, or you don't. Reducing the ban makes it sets the precedent that any language is tolerated as long as you apologise after, or it's only a month ban so it doesn't matter.
I think by arguing for a shorter ban, people are dismissing the impact of racist language. Not intentionally, but that's the message it gives.
Maybe re-read what @Jackpot said - jokes that use racist stereotypes and use racist language are hurtful and do cause damage. Even if the person making them didn't intend it. I don't think people are getting it...
I think this article is really well written about the significance of casual and everyday racism. While it doesn't specifically mention jokes (just addresses questions people ask) I think the points it makes are relevant - https://ideas.ted.com/everyday-comments-and-questions-that-are-actually-racist/
I'm sorry you feel unwelcome because of what's happened, @Pooman2084. I hope you will stick around and come to some meets. The UK pinball league is a great place to start if you are looking for something a bit more laid back to start with. I don't know where you're based but I run lots of events in East Anglia that are inclusive and welcoming to everyone. Feel free to message me for a chat.
That’s what my Mrs tells me to do….but I just can’t. I love having a chat and debunking everything they throw at me. When they’ve had enough, I get a nice leaflet from their satchel.
Maybe an ideal opportunity for me to say:
“From now on I want to be called loretta”
I feel unwelcome in this community, I float around the edge and when I do comment it's when something hits deep.
Judgemental toxic individuals who witch hunt by attacking the most base traits like education and age to get their point across...
Tbh I am half tempted to convince husband not to go to pinfest and I'll go to Arctangent instead who's company of metal heads I greatly prefer to this.
Judgemental toxic individuals who witch hunt by attacking the most base traits like education and age to get their point across...
Tbh I am half tempted to convince husband not to go to pinfest and I'll go to Arctangent instead who's company of metal heads I greatly prefer to this.
I think this point of view is absolutely valid, if there had been a policy in place for this infringement when Col posted. But there wasn't, the 6 month duration was just made up after the event.
So whilst I'd agree totally that there's no place for determining a ban duration based on someone's popularity, I don't think that is what most people here are arguing for...this might seem like semantics, but it's not really an argument about 'reducing' Col's ban, it's actually an argument about setting a fair sentence for the infringement for anyone.
So I think the argument many people are actually making is that 6 months for a first infringement is too much. What a more appropriate ban length might be is another question, but I do think that many people are mistakenly conflating two seperate things - which is probably a cause of a lot of the disagreement/tension. Posts like the one from Nick on the other post where he said "Things I’ve learned this week. It’s ok to be racist or write racist words if you are older or nice. It’s more ok if you’re both". My own take is that no-one was seriously saying this, so it therefore seems that he, and perhaps the other mods, have missed the point of why so many people remain so upset.
All that aside, I feel sorry for the mods in this situation, it's very difficult, and sorry for Col. This is far from pinballinfo's finest hour tbh.
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