Flipper wiring has blown a fuse

[Dinsdale]

Once again, another learning thread. This time, I think I may have diagnosed the problem.

I replaced my flipper assemblies on my Terminator 2 yesterday. Other than a stuck nut or two, all went well. Lined up nicely with the toothpick trick. Flippers work the new coils are nice and strong.

Thought I'd have a game, very impressed - but then the ball went to the gun and the motor was dead. Wouldn't move.

Went into test menu and got "Gun can't find home error" in Test Report. Solenoid test doesn't move gun.

I thought about it, and I think I've blown a fuse due to the fact I got the wiring wrong. I realise this because last week I watched a YouTube video where he says "you don't wanna mix these up because you'll blow a fuse when you go to use a flipper".

So I checked fuses and F111 seems dead on the multimeter. Replacing this will probably sort issue worn motor until I use flipper again.

So, have I got my wiring correct? The previous coils had the kegs against the coil stop which I've found is bad practice. These new ones don't, so I think I have confused myself with the wires.

Where have I gone wrong?

 

[AlanJ]

have you got a before pic ?

 

[Jay Walker]

The live power wire for each coil has the yellow trace colouring, and should be on the 'front' end of the coil, i.e. with the thicker primary full-power winding and the striped end of a diode, so they seem okay. The End of Stroke switch connects across the other terminals, completing the circuit for the primary winding while it's closed. The return for the coil, heading back to the driver board (to then run out to the cabinet button), connects to the 'tail' end of the coil, with the plain end of a diode. So it looks like you have it right.

But fuse 111 isn't concerned with the flippers, anyway, those are 101 for the left side, and 102 for right. 111 is listed as for the input to the flashbulb power rectifier. And the motor does apparently use the flashbulb power. D'you have any flashbulbs working? Fuse 111 is the only fuse (on the driver board, anyway) for the flashbulb power.

 

[Dinsdale]

Got two videos. Left and right.

 

[pinballmania]

I looks correct to me. BUT is youve reversed the wiring and powered up and flipped you most likely have short circuited the diode(s) that are across the lugs of the coils. That means that when you flip next, the fuse will blow because the diode is short. You need to test these, or replace them anyway. You can get an idea if theyre short by measuring with a meter on resistance setting. Anything close to zero is a short. During the test put a piece of card between the end of stroke switch conatcts, as this is also an intentional short.

When done, ensure that your rebuilt flipper fully opens the eos switch when energised, otherwise the fuse will blow.

 

[Dinsdale]

Second video

 

[Jay Walker]

As above, do you have any flashbulbs working? Fuse 111 is the only fuse (on the driver board, anyway) for the 20 volt flashbulb power.

Maybe some solder has fallen into or onto the 20v flashbulb circuit somewhere during the repair. It's not unheard of for a 'solder splash' to land, and bridge two separate points to create a short circuit as it sets. I once attended to the upper flipper on a Black Knight 2000, after which I noticed a general Illumination circuit not lit. Replacing the fuse saw it blow immediately, The upper playfield on B/K 2000 hinges up for access, and a drop of solder had landed on the wooden rail at the edge of the playfield. I couldn't have done so if I'd tried, but it was in the exact spot to short a lamp socket when the upper playfield was lowered back into place.

Check on the flashbulb sockets, and the motor control circuit boards under the playfield.

 

[Dinsdale]

Some flashbulbs are not working for different reasons. Two I found is because they have no bulbs there! One was due to corrosion on the contract, and another I don't know why it isn't working - it could be related to this fuse.

I'll have a good luck for any shoulder splash but I did put a towel over most of it.

 

[Dinsdale]

All my flashers are out, so definitely due to F111 being gone. I can't find a fuse near me. Have to order online, this'll take a few days. Frustrating. I'm so impatient.

 

[Dinsdale]

All my flashers are out, so definitely due to F111 being gone. I can't find a fuse near me. Have to order online, this'll take a few days. Frustrating. I'm so impatient.

 

[Dinsdale]

Got replacement fuses from Halfords. All blow straight away but could be because they need to be slow blow.

I resoldered the wiring. Because the lugs are the opposite way round, I'm referencing the yellow transistor on the side. I still think it could be wrong - this is the only thing I've done that's causing the fuse to blow (visibly too).

I've ordered some slow blow fuses (which are like hens teeth on the high street) but will have to wait. Got a feeling it's going to blow again though and there's something else going on.

Question, when soldering and joining, the wire was heating up as I held it through the sheath. Am I damaging the wires here? I couldn't avoid it to make the joint.

EDIT: Now I think about it, the new fuses were blowing as soon as I switched machine on, not when I used flipper.

 

[Supersprint]

I dont understand. the photos at the top are the new flippers? as the video have different colour wiring, please explain. are they the same? have you replaced the wiring?

 

[Dinsdale]

Yes; the photos are the new flippers. Video is the old one I took for reference.

I think this issue could also be from a shorted flash bulb holder.

 

[Supersprint]

Yes; the photos are the new flippers. Video is the old one I took for reference.

I think this issue could also be from a shorted flash bulb holder.

ok but the colours of the wires are different, have you replaced the wiring as well

 

[Dinsdale]

ok but the colours of the wires are different, have you replaced the wiring as well

I haven't replaced any wiring.

If you're referring to the fact the old flipper what blue wiring, and the new ones have red, those red wires were already there and soldered when the part arrived. I only soldered the striped wires.

 

[Supersprint]

there's a chance that something unrelated to the flipper work has come loose while lifting and working under the playfield, just take some time to run through the underside to see if anything has come off and is shorted to ground.

 

[Dinsdale]

I've had a check and can't see anything.

I knew owning a pinball would mean I have right fix problems but I have had one problem leading to another... it would be nice to be able to play it properly. Argh!

 

[Dinsdale]

Could be BR4 has gone according to manual and online.

I'll put a 5A SB fuse I when it gets delivered and see what happens, but after that it's more advanced I fear.

I wonder if I've loosened something when I was cleaning the flash bulb holders with sandpaper the other week. Who knows.

 

[Dinsdale]

Alright, so the fuse doesn't blow when J107 is unplugged. As soon as I plug in J107, tbe fuse blows.

I imagine this means there's something on the playfield.

Going to try some continuity tests on the circuit.

 

[Sgt GrizZ]

Might be a shot in the dark here *but* …..
Some years ago I was fixing up someone’s T2 , had a fuse blowing issue .
Turned out to be a flash lamp right at the rear of the playfield , near the skull area , it’s dangerously close to other switches etc and the lug was making contacting.
I’ll have a look at the manual later and point out the lamp in question .

 

[Supersprint]

J107 is a solenoid circuit, so leave it unplugged and you should be able to tell which ones are dead and check those first. I haven’t got a roadshow but I’d imagine there are a lot on the game.

 

[Dinsdale]

Might be a shot in the dark here *but* …..
Some years ago I was fixing up someone’s T2 , had a fuse blowing issue .
Turned out to be a flash lamp right at the rear of the playfield , near the skull area , it’s dangerously close to other switches etc and the lug was making contacting.
I’ll have a look at the manual later and point out the lamp in question .

Funny you say that, but I have just removed all flash lamps (I think and retested) but that skull area is definitely packed. I'll take a closer look.

The problem is, some lamp holders never had bulbs in them, so I've been counting them from the manual. They're all #89 size on the playfield.

J107 is a solenoid circuit, so leave it unplugged and you should be able to tell which ones are dead and check those first. I haven’t got a roadshow but I’d imagine there are a lot on the game.

The only solenoid that doesn't work when testing is the gun motor. Everything else is fine, and from the manual, the gun motor is on J107 pin 5 and it's a red wire. It's the same wire with flash lamps on the circuit, so therefore relies on F111 which keeps blowing.

(Tell me if my deduction is rubbish here).

 

[BrianSoton]

The flipper coils are the wrong way round compared to original, lugs to flipper bat, but before lugs opposite flipper bats. However ipdb shows the way you have it now

 

[BrianSoton]

Remove j122 / j125 / j126 and reconnect J107. Switch on and f111 should not blow. Reconnect each of the 3 above one at a time to see which one causes the fuse to blow, this will isolate to the section (string) of flasher where the issue is

 

[Dinsdale]

Remove j122 / j125 / j126 and reconnect J107. Switch on and f111 should not blow. Reconnect each of the 3 above one at a time to see which one causes the fuse to blow, this will isolate to the section (string) of flasher where the issue is

Worked exactly how you said it would. Fuse didn't blow until I plugged J126 in!

 

[Dinsdale]

This is number 18, right sling flash lamp. This has never worked but I do recall when I changed bulb, I had a slight spark. Perhaps I put wrong voltage LED in?

I want to start with this one. How do I go about fixing it? Is the wiring correct?

I think this is part number 077-5002-00?

 

[Supersprint]

This is number 18, right sling flash lamp. This has never worked but I do recall when I changed bulb, I had a slight spark. Perhaps I put wrong voltage LED in?

I want to start with this one. How do I go about fixing it? Is the wiring correct?

I think this is part number 077-5002-00?

You haven’t simply pushed the + and - terminals together while changing the lamp have you?

 

[Dinsdale]

You haven’t simply pushed the + and - terminals together while changing the lamp have you?

I don't think so. I got a slight shock (I should have switched the machine off).

I put on a 5V flasher from Pinball Heaven to see if it was just the bulb. I am thinking this was the wrong one to put in... it's then blew the fuse slowly.

The flipper change is a red herring. That's my current theory.

 

[BrianSoton]

Solenoid drive 17 to 23 flash lamps on j126, check them all,

Easiest way is to remove all flash lamps and see if the fuse blows when you plug in j126. If it does still one of the sockets has shorted or has a solder blob on it, or a wire has been shorted / the lamp holder is touching another component.

Some of those flash lamps have a diode that may have shorted too..,

 

[Dinsdale]

Fuse still blows when lamps have been removed. I removed backbox lamps too for completeness.

When you say a solder blob, like the pic above; they obviously have solder on the lugs... are you saying I'm looking for solder elsewhere on the sockets?