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Fish Tales - tilt bob launches first ball

David_Vi

David_Vi

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5Years
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Sep 3, 2019
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On my Fish Tales, if you start a game and nudge so the tilt bob makes contact with the ring the ball launches.
As far as i can tell this only happens on the first ball.
As soon as it happens I get a credit dot, which in a test report claims the cast/launch button isn't working.

Also, only once the game has reset when I pressed the launch button, low 5v? How do I diagnose this?

Seems like odd behaviour, any ideas?

Has a pin2dmd, ledocd gi, afterglow nano installed
 
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Top of head here, so might be wrong, but do you also have flipper plunger enabled in the adjustments?

I think my IJ does the same when on.
 
strobey said:
Top of head here, so might be wrong, but do you also have flipper plunger enabled in the adjustments?

I think my IJ does the same when on.
Click to expand...

That's off, i double checked, if only it was a simple solution like that!
 
Could it be timed auto plunger I'm thinking of? Damn sure I've seen this before... 🤔
 
strobey said:
Could it be timed auto plunger I'm thinking of? Damn sure I've seen this before... 🤔
Click to expand...
Checked the menu and that's off too.

It only does it on the first ball, any tilts warnings in subsequent balls doesn't do it.

Fubar said:
What happens in switch test mode if you tilt? Any suspicious readings?
Click to expand...

Checked the switch matrix and all seems normal.
 
Mine started auto launching for no reason, it was a wire off a switch somewhere completely unrelated. It would do it everytime the ball was in the shooter lane though.

I'd go into switch test and check every switch on the game is behaving as it should. If any are wierd it will narrow down where to look hopefully.
 
While looking into that I discovered (with help from @MajesticPinball, so props to him), that C2 has leaked and is causing damage to Q2, an issue I also had with Black Rose over a year ago, although the symptoms were different (check fuses error message).

Thats related to the random reboot, I doubt it's related to the tilt cast issue though?
 
David_Vi said:
While looking into that I discovered (with help from @MajesticPinball, so props to him), that C2 has leaked and is causing damage to Q2, an issue I also had with Black Rose over a year ago, although the symptoms were different (check fuses error message).

Thats related to the random reboot, I doubt it's related to the tilt cast issue though?
Click to expand...
That'll be £50 please 😂
 
Is there any further progress with the cone tilt setting off the caster? The thing with a suspected switch matrix problem is to have a 'snapshot' of the conditions on the grid when it happens. On Fish Tales, f'r instance, a subsequent ball may have different conditions, e.g. drop target up (or down, if it started off up), and one or more balls locked, changing the trough switches and the position of the reel. And for Wpc games even the door open or closed. If things really are exactly the same, it may be a software thing. I never liked offering the possibility of a software problem to locations, though. It felt like a get-out to me.

Have you tried simply putting on a few points from the first ball, draining it and then checking for the problem with ball 2? That's most likely to have the same conditions.
 
Jay Walker said:
Is there any further progress with the cone tilt setting off the caster? The thing with a suspected switch matrix problem is to have a 'snapshot' of the conditions on the grid when it happens. On Fish Tales, f'r instance, a subsequent ball may have different conditions, e.g. drop target up (or down, if it started off up), and one or more balls locked, changing the trough switches and the position of the reel. And for Wpc games even the door open or closed. If things really are exactly the same, it may be a software thing. I never liked offering the possibility of a software problem to locations, though. It felt like a get-out to me.

Have you tried simply putting on a few points from the first ball, draining it and then checking for the problem with ball 2? That's most likely to have the same conditions.
Click to expand...

Not looked into it further, yet.
I've already tried letting it drain and seeing if launches the second ball, (it doesn't).

When doing a switch test all the balls are in the trough and the conditions are the same as on a first ball, except the coin door.
I'm not sure it's triggering the caster switch as when I reproduce the issue I get a credit dot saying there is a fault with the cast button. I don't think it would see it as faulty if it is being set off even by something else?
 
if it thinks it is an issue with the cast button it is auto launching to compensate as its clever enough to know there is no way of launching the ball without that button I think.

Really wierd that its only for 1 ball though.
 
Easiest way to start diagnosis would be to disconnect the cast switch (pretty sure there's a connector you can separate) see if it still happens. If it does, I would suspect a diode somewhere
 
My guess is it's shooter lane switch related (as from memory that doesn't score but can cause the ball to be launched) but need to remove the cast switch from the equation first
 
mufcmufc said:
Easiest way to start diagnosis would be to disconnect the cast switch (pretty sure there's a connector you can separate) see if it still happens. If it does, I would suspect a diode somewhere
Click to expand...

Disconnected the cast switch and the tilt bob still launches the ball. What next? 😳
 
David_Vi said:
Disconnected the cast switch and the tilt bob still launches the ball. What next? 😳
Click to expand...

Check the switch in the shooter lane, it's almost definitely related to that:
Diode 1st, wiggle it they often break at the barrel and it's not apparent
Wiring check it's correct and intact on both lugs
Wiring in the same chain (row and column)
 
Did some testing and it does launch on the other balls... IF there's no fault seen with the cast switch.
To clarify, in my previous tests I'd push the tilt bob, the ball would launch, and give a credit dot.
All subsequent balls it will tilt but not launch.
Unless you use the cast switch so there's no credit dot. Then it will launch on the tilt bob making contact.

So it'll always launch the ball if there's no fault with the cast switch 🤔

No idea. I'll see if I can check the diodes in the trough and shooter trough next
 
The shooter lane switch diode seems OK. 0 one way, and 0.500(ish) the other.
Trough 1 has a diode and shows the same result.
Trough 2 and 3 don't have diodes.


I tried replicating the conditions of a first ball... If trough 2 and 3 and the shooter lane are active and I trigger the plumb Bob switch nothing else comes up (I thought maybe cast would)

Maybe it's by design? 🤔 But according to the fish tales owners club on pinside it shouldn't happen.
Anyone have a Fishy to hand?
@Hiltoncriss @M4carp @Garry Sp8
If you start a game and trigger the tilt bob does the ball launch?

I am heading to the pinball office tomorrow, maybe Criss will let me tilt his Fishy? 😂
 
David_Vi said:
The shooter lane switch diode seems OK. 0 one way, and 0.500(ish) the other.
Trough 1 has a diode and shows the same result.
Trough 2 and 3 don't have diodes.


I tried replicating the conditions of a first ball... If trough 2 and 3 and the shooter lane are active and I trigger the plumb Bob switch nothing else comes up (I thought maybe cast would)

Maybe it's by design? 🤔 But according to the fish tales owners club on pinside it shouldn't happen.
Anyone have a Fishy to hand?
@Hiltoncriss @M4carp @Garry Sp8
If you start a game and trigger the tilt bob does the ball launch?

I am heading to the pinball office tomorrow, maybe Criss will let me tilt his Fishy? 😂
Click to expand...
Of course, you are more than welcome. I would do it now but I have to leave…
See you tomorrow!
 
Do Trough 2 & 3 really not have diodes?. I recall them being attached to solder tags alongside each switch. But that got me wondering where the diode for Cast is. Switch column 3 is piped out from the cpu board specially, and row 1 is used in the cabinet in any case, for Slam Tilt (2,1). The diode for Cast seems to be in the handle, though I don't recall that from fitting a replacement switch on an early Fish Tales.

This may be a matter for the 'Single Switch' test. Select Cast 3,1 on it and set the conditions required; Ball Shooter, Right and Centre Trough (1 & 2) and then cone tilt. An indication for Cast would show something amiss with the switch matrix.
 
David_Vi said:
The shooter lane switch diode seems OK. 0 one way, and 0.500(ish) the other.
Trough 1 has a diode and shows the same result.
Trough 2 and 3 don't have diodes.


I tried replicating the conditions of a first ball... If trough 2 and 3 and the shooter lane are active and I trigger the plumb Bob switch nothing else comes up (I thought maybe cast would)

Maybe it's by design? 🤔 But according to the fish tales owners club on pinside it shouldn't happen.
Anyone have a Fishy to hand?
@Hiltoncriss @M4carp @Garry Sp8
If you start a game and trigger the tilt bob does the ball launch?

I am heading to the pinball office tomorrow, maybe Criss will let me tilt his Fishy? 😂
Click to expand...
Just tried it out on mine and it does this too on ball 1, gives a switch 31 caster error which then goes away with the next ball.
I have had mine a long time so must have always been like it unless it’s got anything to do with the caster switch mod with lamp.

Good party trick to launch the ball, thanks😂
 
M4carp said:
Just tried it out on mine and it does this too on ball 1, gives a switch 31 caster error which then goes away with the next ball.
I have had mine a long time so must have always been like it unless it’s got anything to do with the caster switch mod with lamp.

Good party trick to launch the ball, thanks😂
Click to expand...


Well... After all this I guess it's meant to do that!
Mad, I blame Pinside 😑🤣
 
M4carp said:
When I feel better (covid jab) I will look into it on the switch matrix to see what is going on. We both could have the same issue or it could be a glitch but does seem strange.
Click to expand...
I suppose it might be programmed to do that, although I don't see why.

I'd be interested if other wpc-89 games with auto plungers do the same?
 
I certainly wouldn't claim to be an expert on software, but if the game was actually tilted for real, i.e. to flippers-off condition, then it might be meant to fire off any ball in the shooter lane. As to why that would be, maybe a tilt can only clear with a change to the trough switches, showing that the 'active' ball has drained. I had a call to an F-14 once, stuck in tilt condition. The outhole switch wasn't reading, so the ball(s) hadn't returned to the trough. Though thinking now, I don't see why it couldn't search at least the outhole, even when tilted.
 
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Just gone through the switches on the matrix and no issues including combinations and ball trough positions.
Game works without any faults.
So basically on ball 1 only with the first tilt it will launch a ball give a switch 31 caster error which will clear itself quickly which is strange as it hasn’t been pressed.

I’ve not long put a new replacement CPU board in mine non original, could it be this?
Just seems strange to me.
 
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