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Everyone wants a Stern...

The Single Pin Connundrum - Would You Have

  • Modern Stern

    Votes: 24 46.2%

  • Classic WPC

    Votes: 24 46.2%

  • What??!? Neither - I don't Even Like Pinball - What is this Mess?

    Votes: 2 3.8%

  • Put me down for Alpha Numeric

    Votes: 1 1.9%

  • Click Click Click - EM's Please

    Votes: 1 1.9%
  • Total voters
    52
James

James

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With the notable exception of @DRD - the mass of games being pumped out by Stern, as well as others coming in too (watch this space for Deeproot) - no one can deny that the higher end WPC's are taking a hit. Just take a look at the, of course, dubious top 10 on Pinside

Medieval Madness - Remade - more supply in the market
Attack from Mars - Remade - more supply in the market
Monster Bash - Soon to be remade - more supply in the market
Twilight Zone
Iron Maiden: Legacy of the Beast - Stern
Lord of the Rings - Stern
Metallica - Stern
Dialed In - JJP (Not sure why it is here though :P)
AC/DC - Stern
The Addams Family - Rumoured to be remade - potentially more supply in the market

Get a little lower down and honestly the WPC's thin out dramatically and more Stern games and newer manufacturers occupy the higher ends - with code and rulesets being the biggest innovation in Pinball and consumer demand seemingly changing let's have a little poll and create some discussion...

My view is this - the classic games at the top have nostalgia added to the fact they are undoubtedly top quality games, but is the WPC era going the way of alpha-numeric? Soon, the rules won't be deep enough, the screens won't convey enough information and generally only the very elite will command a somewhat subdued value. People want modern games.
 
I am fairly new to owning pinball machines and I am incredibly happy with the games that I have in my small collection now. As much as I love Sterns Metallica and Iron Maiden, I am really happy that I opted to get some of my favourite Bally/Williams games first. IJ was my first quickly followed by WH2O, WCS, TOM and Diner.
 
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The way I feel isn't adequately catered for by any of the answers in your poll I'm afraid and I expect that will be true for many people on here too. I like games from all era's and all manufacturers. Loads of great games were made before the WPC era even, some of my favourites were System 11. The quality of games being released by Stern and other modern manufacturers has definitely come a long way in recent years though and that is reflected in the polls. With 1 or 2 exceptions the quality of games made in the early 2000's left a lot to be desired which is probably why a lot of the WPC stuff stayed so far up the pecking order for so long.
 
I find it really tricky to get emotionally connected to any of the new Sterns (not that I've played loads) - Metallica, Maiden, GB - to me they all feel a little bit 'going through the motions'. As though they are not really concerned about being wildly innovative. I get why that is - it is a lot safer to product something that you know if going to sell, but to me they lack character, or some essential element that allows me to fall in love with them. I dunno why it is. I'm prepared to persevere!

That's why I was so stoked to see something like TNA come out. A fast, retro, original theme game with a kickass (original) soundtrack. Imagine the possibilities if music production aesthetics were better integrated into the pinball world? And, barring the usual marmite appeal of something like this, it's popular - there's a market for something different.
 
I think I depends on your personal experience, age, etc. Being of the 90s arcade boom has had me wanting major Bally Williams in general. As ownership gets younger it will see much more of a mix. I’ve had pins 5/6 years now and my second major line up is now much more mixed than my first which was wpc89/wpc95

Original line up:

Bally/williams:
Taf / tz / afm / totan/ ss /mb / Tom / ft / ij/ mm /wh20

Stern;
Twd / AC/DC / Lotr

New line up:

Bally Williams:
Taf / tz / Tom

Stern:
Lotr / met / twd / tron / sm / IMDN

JJP:
Woz

Data east/Sega:
Godzilla

I’ve mixed it up a lot with afmr, iron man, wcs94 as well.

I can’t see me adding many more Bally Williams in the future although I would have another wh20.

Stern are on fire right now and will be keen to see munsters, dead pool in play. Keen on a sopranos at some point and maybe a wpt. JJP machines are beautiful but mostly failed to hook me, having had a hobbit and dialled in, I have got a Woz though which is good.
There was a time when I thought stern were poorly made machines, I think that viewpoint is better nowadays although Jjp clearly lead.
 
I was thinking similar thoughts recently funnily enough.

I can't see myself buying another B/W game. Had all the ones I wanted and not excited by the ones I haven't.

Got my 2 favourites - AFM and FT.

Sterns have got better of late due to progressive scoring, and the use of multipliers.

The LCD Sterns now make the dmd games look and feel dated.

That said KISS remains my favourite game;)

Never owned a JJP due to combination of not liking widebodies, or their themes.

So, despite dodgy QC etc, Stern seem to my favourite games these days.
 
I choose Stern. You are now seeing remakes affect prices of originals which deep down we all new would happen. The thing is they don't just remake them they improve them too.
 
My current lineup is all Stern, but I like games from all eras. One of the things that has steered me more to Stern with my latest purchases is the price of the B/W games that i'm interested in. There have been a lot going up for sale in a "refurbished" condition in the £4k+ range. When I can buy a HUO nearly new Stern for not a lot more, then for me its going to be the Stern
 
One man's wine is another man's poison.

I find myself turned off by some of the newer games, and find a few of them to be inscrutable to a newcomer like me. I get a bit fatigued by having to choose modes etc before I've even launched a ball, for instance. I realise that not everyone is like that though, plenty of people like that kind of "depth" beyond just whacking a ball around.

That being said the current crop of remakes appears to improve upon the originals in every measureable way except in pure "this machine is 25 years old" factor, and in a lot of cases - particularly minty pins - that statement is a bit specious anyway.
 
I like all pins - including EMs - but the 90's "classics" aren't particularly special for me. I'm a Stern fan, and I'd take my TWD or AC/DC over any of the old Bally/Williams titles.
 
This is a really difficult poll to answer. :(

I have a Stern Tron LE and a couple of B/W pins (TZ and now TAF). I like them all equally for different reasons. I don't think I could choose just one. What I would want - money being no object - would probably be some sort of frankenstein of B/W theme and Stern/CGC technological progress, which technically isn't an option in this poll.
 
Durzel said:
This is a really difficult poll to answer. :(
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It has to be difficult, because it is - I wanted the poll to kinda make people think, as well as a starter for 10.

For for me it is a little bit easier - I have no real attachment to any era or specific game - I never spent loads of time in the arcades - there is no nostalgia element so I think I am potentially less biased in that way. I love the fun of pinball, and appreciate it in all of its guises. I want an EM, I want some Alpha-Numeric games, I have and have had 3 BW era games, but two modern Sterns - yet I aspire to even more modern ones (Maiden is the grail)... All being said - the more modern sterns do it for me. I want a coded game that has tonnes of modes, that's what floats my boat. I can spend hours on TWD - yet SS gets less and less play time, blinking fun when friends are over, but that's not enough to keep it in the collection and it will probably go soon.
 
I grew up playing the WPC classics of the 90s and hold them dear to my heart. Of the newer sterns i haven't really played anything that grabbed me quite like the 90s games did back in the day. This is probably just nostalgia talking but I would much rather have a line up of classics than a line up of new Sterns
 
All pins are cool, depends on theme, play, and longevity, also your statement that higher end wms are taking a hit is based on ....
 
mission65 said:
All pins are cool, depends on theme, play, and longevity, also your statement that higher end wms are taking a hit is based on ....
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The fact that MB's are not selling at asking price which is £5k plus - if I said AFM v MB which is more expensive... you would say?

Screen Shot 2018-11-05 at 18.52.34.png

Screen Shot 2018-11-05 at 18.52.27.png

Screen Shot 2018-11-05 at 18.52.15.png
 
I’d say you are respectfully wrong, most people don’t buy from ebay and how do we know what’s sold elsewhere
Oh and I just bought a mb at over 5k so another fact that was wrong, depends on quality, and whose looking,
What about the afmr I bought for 1.5 - 2k off the price payed 2 months earlier, in your book that means all new pins are taking a hit and it carnt be denied.
Sorry but there are lots of factors involved, but afm is still worth anywhere up to 6.5 k if it’s the right one for the person buying, and posting a couple of eBay adds that might have been pulled again and again is not proof for me.
 
mission65 said:
so another fact that was wrong
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I never stated it was fact - it's an opinion based on the evidence I can see...

mission65 said:
is not proof for me.
Click to expand...

That is fine, I am not trying to convert people, I am just putting forward an idea, based on what evidence I can see.

mission65 said:
there are lots of factors involved, but afm is still worth anywhere up to 6.5 k if it’s the right one
Click to expand...

Of course - I am just trying to look at the general trend - I believe (incorrectly in some people's opinion and that's fine) that right now there is a general down trend in the AVERAGE higher end WPC game, but I also believe there was an UPTREND in the general DMD game...

I 100% agree with you - a super nice original will be worth top top money to someone - I just think that the market has moved and people want more and more of what Stern are offering at the detriment to other pins...
 
I agree that we all have different views on this and that’s cool James, mine and yours differ but hey ho it’s all good and you wanted debate, I think sterns are great too, liked playing Metallica and Im at the weekend ,
By the way your first post says “no one can deny that the higher end WPC's are taking a hit” I deny it, not true in my eyes, afmr le didn’t sell on here at 6k, how much is that off the original price ? Bet afm original hasn’t been hit that hard ?
 
We can all agree NIB's take a hit @mission65 - just like a new car will - a new pin will too - I accept no debate on that!

If you had only one era in your collection though (AFMr comes under the modern not WPC era) - what would you choose?
 
Very difficult for me as I truly love wms and Stern, but afm would not leave, all my sterns would go before that.
 
The reason that MBs aren't moving that quickly is because of over supply due to the imminent release of the remake - nothing to do with Stern. I would argue that system 11 and DMD ballys have generally maintained their price in the market in recent years. Excluding those high end games, you dont see any reasonably priced (by that I mean 1.5 - 2.5k) wpc machines hanging around long, on here or on ebay.

It would be interesting to get some data on sales figures so you could confirm those trends one way or the other. Even though condition does play a big part on price, I expect this would level out if enough data was available.
 
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My collection is 3 pins big, apart from sometimes a 4th sneaking its way in.

Generally I have 2 Stern machines these days but I had to build up to those over years. I always try to keep at least 1 classic WPC/System 11 game to vary the lineup.
 
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