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Changing sale trends?

Judge Dreads

Judge Dreads

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Just an observation, are less machines disappearing from ebay before auction end?, there was a time not long ago when you had to make contact with the seller getting in line with your offer to have a chance of securing that sought after machine with almost every one ending with "Listing has ended because item is no longer available for sale" seem to notice less of this recently with machines either going the distance and selling or enthusiastic sellers who have overpriced their machines with an elevated BIN or start price hitting a blank and having to watch the seconds close with nothing more than the hassle of relisting with a reduced price or falling in love with the machine again.
 
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Think there's far more high priced machines simply not getting any bids at all. Even some of the cheap titles seem to be going the distance. Did the Dr Who sell in the end yesterday?
 
The £800 DW did sell with 1 bid, but that doesn't mean this buyer will follow through - just like the last one didn't. Sometimes I feel like telling the seller to list them on here, save all the eBay heartache and trouble.

The other £1300 didn't sell as far as I can tell, which comes as no surprise really.
 
£800 seems a pretty good price for a Dr Who. A few months ago I would have thought the AC/DCs, Iron Man, WH20 would all have attracted bids (or at least offers). I know it's just after Xmas which is a slack time but maybe the lower profile of Pinball Paradise is reducing shill bidding. Fingers crossed a decrease in prices could see an exodus of flippers and "investors" and prices might become less eye watering
 
The MM remake announcement was the end of "investment" pinball thankfully. Prices are going to get more and more realistic over the next year or so. It will lead to people holding on to titles longer and heaven forbid actually mean that the damned things get played. Losing money isn't nice but historically it's all that has happened on pintables.

The last 3-5 years have seen a strengthening of the market which will almost certainly lead to a correction, hopefully this is the start of that downhill correction as the post Christmas market is actually normally strong, the lulls are generally May-June and December. Certain titles will continue to hold or not lose as much value as others but I think the only machine that continues to buck the trend (and has done it before so this must be re-bucking) is TAF.

As for the DW, it's a machine no one would have paid more than £500 for just a couple of years ago as it's tatty and a realistic price is £650. The same with that non working tatty HS2 which would be lucky to make more than £400 a couple of years ago although I don't think it's worth any more than £50o as it stands today.
 
mufcmufc said:
The MM remake announcement was the end of "investment" pinball
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I don't think so, it may have capped the used MM price but will have little effect on machine prices on the whole, no doubt there will be a ripple through the Bally-Wms trophy title pond but that is about it, all other titles should remain unaffected which makes them a worthwhile investment regardless of whether that is your thing or not.
 
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Judge Dreads said:
I don't think so, it may have capped the used MM price but will have little effect on machine prices on the whole, no doubt there will be a ripple through the Bally-Wms trophy title pond but that is about it, all other titles should remain unaffected which makes them a worthwhile investment regardless of whether that is your thing or not.
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Not so sure as once people realize you are more likely to lose money than make money, more titles will be cashed in. Combine this with a bubble in 2014 with an unbelievable amount of titles being made and prices will drop - possibly by a lot. Once people start losing money the market will slow down further. And with the saturation of new titles, hardly anyone has any space now. If I was an investor and I'm not, I would have been selling since the MMr remake was announced.
 
I think the announcement of new titles must have had an affect. I know I've got to sell a few machines to make way for purchases in 2014. If there are several other people in this situation then hopefully there will be an increase in "good" titles coming onto the market. I don't think it'll affect the lower end or titles such as TAF (as these are typically the initial machines that newbies would gravitate to). However I think the average 2k+ machine will either stay at current prices or drop. The MM remake has also effectively put the breaks on other top titles. Would you pay as much for an AFM now as 6 months ago if you thought there was a chance of a remake coming out?

It's possible that a fall in prices would actually increase rather than decrease supply. At the moment how many of us are cramming machines into any space we can out of fear of pinflation pushing the same title out reach in the future. I suspect if prices stabalised or dropped I'd change my machines more often
 
I agree that there may be a change in trends but don't think it's down to the MMr remake announcement (although this will potentially have some effect on a handful of titles), if anything it will be as stated above due to a saturation of new titles but there will always be people who want to get their hands on highly rated older machines or classics, just because something is new does not necessarily make it good or a keeper, there are two AC/DC's up on the bay atm and those are recent top titles (neither have been nabbed in any rush), I recently shifted my Spidey over my Congo, BOP and JM, it's all down to what tickles your fancy.

The thing that recent Sterns or probably most Sterns don't have is nostalgia so apart from gameplay there is nothing else making them a keeper, that is where the classics have an upper hand and the reason why most will maintain their market value.

Space constraints forcing the sale of a machine is always a factor, I would have thought that this would force out the runts rather than top titles and the release of funds needed to finance a NIB forcing the sale of a trophy or newer Sterns (what seems to be happening at the moment with owners parting with recent Stern titles to aquire newer Stern titles or the alternatives, Predator, Hobbit etc)

I think what we have to remember is that the manufacturers hold the sales data, they are the ones who look at charts to see which way the wind is blowing and respond accordingly, if they are churning out machines it must be apparent that it's a worthwhile venture and the interest is there in the same way as Williams bailed out because of the opposite trend.
 
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And so starts The Great Pinball Machine Crash of 2014..
 
Nah, I expect it to continue gathering momentum with the interest in pinball continuing to grow as more people around the world discover the hobby ;) .
 
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Judge Dreads said:
Nah, I expect it to continue gathering momentum with the interest in pinball continuing to grow as more people around the world discover the hobby ;) .
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Depends if these new people discover the hobby to make money or not. If the current dip gets worse... will people start to bail out?
 
Great post and and i would say you are right i have had a few pins on e bay recently and it is very slow even the nice rs i had on e bay only managed to sell for £1122 a real bargain for someone
but some things do suprise me and one thing we all seem to forget is that us group members are not the only people that buy pins and what we think is a crap game other people dont one of the best sales for me this year was my swt i am sure most people think this is a shocking game i put it on e bay £1500 or bin and loads of offers in the first day and sold for £1400
6 months ago when i wanted an ac dc couldent get one for love or money now when i want to sell it i am struggling but hey its only pinball
 
The problem with AC/DC is the lack of a decent pro version....the premium version doesn't justify the price (at least to me anyway). I should think the majority of people don't want to spend the extra £££ on a premium version when you should be able to get a good pro version for a lot less (eg Star Trek - this seems to be a pro that doesn't take the **** by taking away half the playfield like acdc pro).

Chris if your really struggling to shift it...I can help you out there if you come down a bit on price ;)
 
£2600 for that legless TAF proves the market is still out of control :D, I sold my T2 in about 15 mins flat on the forum about a month or so ago (didn't even upload pics), if you price it fairly, it will sell, if not then you will have to keep playing with it, simples.
 
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abaxas said:
Depends if these new people discover the hobby to make money or not. If the current dip gets worse... will people start to bail out?
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I don't think anyone discovers pinball just to make money, you discover pinball and then realise that machine values are on the rise, some people capitalise on this and some don't care, the fact that you can break even when you fancy a change is a plus, don't think anyone entering the hobby would be put off if they lost a couple of quid when they sold up, we lose on almost everything else we buy (apart from property in a boom etc) and it does not deter us, it is the norm.
 
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chris b said:
Mark I have a few people coming forward with trades so hopefully a deal will come out of this or I might list it on e bay at 99p and let battle commence
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Played my TAF for 2 hours today to see if I could trade it in...but it seems I enjoy playing it as much now as I did 21 years ago.

Fingers crossed for a 99p AC/DC auction then!
 
mark9 said:
The problem with AC/DC is the lack of a decent pro version....the premium version doesn't justify the price (at least to me anyway).
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ACDC you get the following:

Cheesy dancing band (worth it for this alone!!)
Moulded Train
Crossover Ramp (with diverter)
2 x Drop Target Banks
Extra TNT target
Plunging TNT box
Colour Changing LEDs
Colour co-ordinated GI
Lower Playfield
Powder Coated Side Armour
Large Sub speaker
Swinging Bell with magnet
Bell saucer

May have missed some stuff

Admittedly some of the above stuff isn't the best but there is WAY more value there than any LE/Prem over Pro that has been produced since and is probably the only game that can justify the price over the pro version.
 
The fact you don't have that horrible artwork in the centre of the playfield makes the LE worth it over the Pro for me, not that I can afford either of them :D
 
Yeah it's the huge Angus face that really puts me off, what were they on when they thought that was a good idea?

I appreciate that there's a lot more on the AC/DC premium but it feels that they have taken too much away from the Pro.

I would consider buying a Star Trek pro, but not the AC/DC pro.
 
mark9 said:
Yeah it's the huge Angus face that really puts me off, what were they on when they thought that was a good idea?

I appreciate that there's a lot more on the AC/DC premium but it feels that they have taken too much away from the Pro.

I would consider buying a Star Trek pro, but not the AC/DC pro.
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As usual I am onmy own in opinion here but I would much prefer the lower PF WITH the cartoon Angus rather than the cacky fire man with square eyes!!I would also bin the old dancing men in favour of dancing ac/dc letters

poi
 
I find the lower playfield really poor. It needs a proper one as on Haunted House / Black Hole.
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I quite like the lower pf :) You can get into a nice rhythm looping the ball which is really satisfying.
 
Seems like this thread has been derailed, let's move it back on track, I conclude that HUO used AC/DC's are worth less than perceived by the owners and have depreciated more than they would have liked which may be a sure sign of changing sale trends (Stern) :)
 
Years ago a guy in the States wanted to sell his original 427 AC Cobra. Prices at the time were around $50-60K. He puts an ad in Hemmings (the bible for used muscle car sales) selling an AC Cobra for $200,000. Obviously no buyers but it caused a stir. He then put numerous ads in collector car mags throughout the States, for AC Cobras at prices around $175,000 - $225,000. Doing this pushed the perceived value of AC Cobra's up as people saw the ads and thought that's what they were fetching. he then puts his car in Hemmings again for $150,000 and it sold within a day. The buyer thought he'd got a bargain and the seller got 3 times his original price.

All because we believe that the price we see in ads is actually what they are going for.

Here endeth the first lesson.:D
 
Let me get this right, AC/DC is actually worth about £1500 but people are trying to push the perceived value up to 5k same as the AC cobra guy? :D
 
So... will this work vice versa with pins I'd like to buy. Put loads of ads up of them cheap, non existent machines of course. Everyone thinks their value is now much lower and... ah actual owners think bugger that I'm not selling for that price I'd rather keep hold of it. Guess I'll have to keep on saving then :(
 
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