What's new
By:
Pinball info

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Ccc it’s here !!

I’m not morning about price I simply am sad to see the end of the classic edition. Since there is no uk price I really can’t “moan” about it.
 
Kenny Taylor said:
for those that have or played MMr, AFMr and MBr. Where would you place CCr on the must have list?

I see it’s ranked 50th on pinside but that could be due to scarcity and folk not being able to play it at home and get a good feel of the games, music and call/outs..
Click to expand...
I own all these as originals and also own afmr, and have played the mbr a lot,
its all personal prefs but mine are afm, mm, cc, and then mb. But I love them all and so any would be a great purchase
 
SpiderPin said:
But we're already paying £7000-odd pounds for a pinball machine and they're nickel and diming CODE! Even if that's acceptable to you, it starts out with alternate code today. Then next year its "Oh we've brought back Lyman to do a Wizard Mode! How cool is that? We're going to not put one into the base game because Lyman's just so brilliant he'd blow it out of the water! By the way, since we've had to bring Lyman back and all it'll be £29.99 thanks!". Then the next it's extra modes, and the next it's an extra multiball for Stern Insider users only! It's already happened to some extent with the Pro and Premium models. I've seen it happen with online games - I used to play free games all the time. Then they started nickel and diming, now it's industry practice and no-one bats an eye for a £2.99 loot crate. Of course I'm not suggesting they'll start adding loot crates to pinball, but if you accept this now - pinball goes down a road of paid DLC, and it won't be pretty.
Click to expand...

I get it, we’d all like to pay less of course and not have to pay for extra things. I only bought my first machine this year so I don’t even have other machines that have appreciated in value to trade for new ones.

But at the end of the day all the pinball manufacturers, distributors etc are businesses, if demand is so massively over supply as it is now, of course they are going to make hay while the sun shines. I watched Pat Lawlor’s expo seminar and he was talking about the outlay costs etc, he said so many were 1 machine away from closing. Manufacturers might push prices now while they can but that means they can get through a rough spot in the future and not have to shut down.

For every person that gets ****ed off and cancels an order/ doesn’t order on a price increase, a whole bunch more are happy their order moved up the queue.

Like I say of course everyone would like cheaper prices but as long as demand is this high even if component costs come down that won’t happen
 
SpiderPin said:
But we're already paying £7000-odd pounds for a pinball machine and they're nickel and diming CODE! Even if that's acceptable to you, it starts out with alternate code today. Then next year its "Oh we've brought back Lyman to do a Wizard Mode! How cool is that? We're going to not put one into the base game because Lyman's just so brilliant he'd blow it out of the water! By the way, since we've had to bring Lyman back and all it'll be £29.99 thanks!". Then the next it's extra modes, and the next it's an extra multiball for Stern Insider users only! It's already happened to some extent with the Pro and Premium models. I've seen it happen with online games - I used to play free games all the time. Then they started nickel and diming, now it's industry practice and no-one bats an eye for a £2.99 loot crate. Of course I'm not suggesting they'll start adding loot crates to pinball, but if you accept this now - pinball goes down a road of paid DLC, and it won't be pretty.
Click to expand...

You're absolutely correct in regard to online gaming.

I can only really compare Fifa and the old legends teams that used to be fun to play with. I suspect now that if you wanted Pele, Best or Moore in your team on a console it would cost upwards of £50. I imagine on shooting games you're paying extra for better guns and more armour etc.

This works because they have a captive, young and growing audience with a price point that can just about be covered by the parents.

I think this will be the cooking of the golden goose in pinball terms with an ageing customer base and very few people in their teens and early 20's able to afford the hobby.
 
It is not a pretty direction to go in, but there will always be people who don’t give a monkeys about the cost and they will be the ones buying new machines. The likes of Chris B wil do well making older machines desirable and playable at a modern level and those of us that have to justify our purchases financially will have to wait for a second hand machine.

Itks almost like pinball is going to go full circle. The ‘Arcade’ is replaced by those with enough capital to buy new whatever the cost. When they discard a machine it becomes available for those further down the line to buy.
 
Gonzo said:
You're absolutely correct in regard to online gaming.

I can only really compare Fifa and the old legends teams that used to be fun to play with. I suspect now that if you wanted Pele, Best or Moore in your team on a console it would cost upwards of £50. I imagine on shooting games you're paying extra for better guns and more armour etc.

This works because they have a captive, young and growing audience with a price point that can just about be covered by the parents.

I think this will be the cooking of the golden goose in pinball terms with an ageing customer base and very few people in their teens and early 20's able to afford the hobby.
Click to expand...
I keep having this argument with Neil and he keeps telling me I’m a fogey who isn’t down with the yoof. I am, indeed, not in my early 20s or 30s, but I am also - as I understand it - younger than Neil…

I think it depends on what you think drives younger people into pinball. I had a theory, now slightly vindicated, that young people were coming in through playing pinball machines online and, also, through analogue gaming.

Board gaming is now probably a billion-pound hobby in western countries. There are multi-million-pound board game Kickstarters, there are board game cafes all around London, and there are gaming clubs that meet seven days a week. The impetus for that was people who got into gaming through video games, but wanted a less online and more face-to-face experience.

For me, certainly, pinball machines are just very large, electronic, analogue dexterity games. They’re akin to Crokinole, Tumbling Dice or Klask - to give three examples of analogue non-electronic dexterity games. So, when I think about building a ‘games room’, I’m assuming it will have some pinball machines and also shelving for our collection of 150 board and card games.

I did question whether I was alone in this, but I went to Plonk Crazy Golf in Hackney, London, over half term. For people who don’t know Hackney, it’s a pretty ‘hipster’ area with a lot of people in their 20s hanging around. The crazy golf was intended as an adult venue and it had multiple arcade machines, including five pinball machines. One of those was an EM, one was Dolly Parton, and the newest was TAF. There was also a huge cabinet of board games. While we were there, a group of people in their 20s or early 30s came into the bar and started playing the Ghostbusters coop board game, and then a second group came in to order cocktails and started playing something else.

So, I don’t see it as an evolution where no one can get into playing because they desperately want to play the modern Sterns - and nothing else. Certainly, although I’m looking to get a GZ Premium at some point, as my Flipper Beast and I are a huge fan of Keith Elwin designs, I was charmed by the EM (!) and Dolly Parton. My Flipper Beast, who won’t be a teen for almost a decade, expressed great joy at seeing the TAF and played it for a prolonged period. I had promised him a Hurricane, which they used to have at that venue, which is - of course - even more retro!
 
Chalk the price up $250 and just keep it simple. Or just absorb the cost. DLC gmafb...

First it's unfinished code on release (across the industry i mean, which most people now accept as the norm). Now they're monetising that!?

Slippery slope.
It sets a commercial precident to actually HOLD BACK final code.

What next, an annual subscription for security updates? You can see it coming can't you.

Honestly I'm suprised so many are accepting this. It's misguided at best and pure greed at worst.
 
The missing word in this discussion is 'transparency'.

For me, Stern crossed the line when they released Stranger Things and said, some time later 'oh by the way....' about the ultra-violet kit. Here's it's straightforward. CCr has additional code which completes the original code as intended when it was first released. If, as I hope, I'm high enough up Phil's list, that what I'll be buying.

Some time later I also know code will be available which most likely 're-imagines' the rules more in keeping with a modern game designed for home use. So deeper and more complex. That will be an additional purchase - which is OK and transparent (and personally I can't see it being less than £1,000).

I'm not a huge fan of Medieval Madness, but have owned AFMr and MBr. The first was great, but ultimately repetitive and as it was played less and less got sold to make room. I prefer MBr and it's still here, but it certainly isn't played as frequently as it used to be. If you told me I could buy new, deeper code for MBr, I'd jump at the chance. I'll most likely feel the same about CCr, but the key point is, it won't be a surprise and it will be a choice.

I don't think that qualifies as the slippery slope of 'DLC', more like choosing to retro-fit alloy wheels on your car.
 
mark9 said:
Guess so as Phil's only advertising SE for sale. Must have been a waiting list, would be interested to know how many LE's coming to the UK?


edit: scrolled further down the PH webpage, LE orders not yet open.
Click to expand...
It doesn’t matter about ordering the se but if you want an le then Phil has an allocation of 20 le I believe but the order book is pretty full already when I looked yesterday so if it’s an le you want then it might be a good idea to contact him tomorrow
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jib
All the arguments about paying for additional code aside, this pin does have appeal but what the hell are those full sized replica revolvers intruding onto the playfield all about?
Hell no!
Did the original have the same?
 
its weird on the cgc website the details read

Interactive RGB General Illumination (Limited and Special Editions Only)​


kind of reads that you get rag on le and se but not on classic .... was it pulled at the 11th hr?

Chicago Gaming Company

Cactus Canyon Remake is a remake of a pinball machine from October 1998, manufactured by Bally Manufacturing Co. It is well known as being the last traditional pinball machine by Bally/Williams.
www.chicago-gaming.com www.chicago-gaming.com
 
VeeMonroe said:
I keep having this argument with Neil and he keeps telling me I’m a fogey who isn’t down with the yoof. I am, indeed, not in my early 20s or 30s, but I am also - as I understand it - younger than Neil…
Click to expand...

Its no argument; you keep making up anecdotal view of the world you want to believe in through your biased eyes. I reflect a view with data, numbers and insight and have a lifetime of serving all ages with network services.
 
VeeMonroe said:
I keep having this argument with Neil and he keeps telling me I’m a fogey who isn’t down with the yoof. I am, indeed, not in my early 20s or 30s, but I am also - as I understand it - younger than Neil…

I think it depends on what you think drives younger people into pinball. I had a theory, now slightly vindicated, that young people were coming in through playing pinball machines online and, also, through analogue gaming.

Board gaming is now probably a billion-pound hobby in western countries. There are multi-million-pound board game Kickstarters, there are board game cafes all around London, and there are gaming clubs that meet seven days a week. The impetus for that was people who got into gaming through video games, but wanted a less online and more face-to-face experience.

For me, certainly, pinball machines are just very large, electronic, analogue dexterity games. They’re akin to Crokinole, Tumbling Dice or Klask - to give three examples of analogue non-electronic dexterity games. So, when I think about building a ‘games room’, I’m assuming it will have some pinball machines and also shelving for our collection of 150 board and card games.

I did question whether I was alone in this, but I went to Plonk Crazy Golf in Hackney, London, over half term. For people who don’t know Hackney, it’s a pretty ‘hipster’ area with a lot of people in their 20s hanging around. The crazy golf was intended as an adult venue and it had multiple arcade machines, including five pinball machines. One of those was an EM, one was Dolly Parton, and the newest was TAF. There was also a huge cabinet of board games. While we were there, a group of people in their 20s or early 30s came into the bar and started playing the Ghostbusters coop board game, and then a second group came in to order cocktails and started playing something else.

So, I don’t see it as an evolution where no one can get into playing because they desperately want to play the modern Sterns - and nothing else. Certainly, although I’m looking to get a GZ Premium at some point, as my Flipper Beast and I are a huge fan of Keith Elwin designs, I was charmed by the EM (!) and Dolly Parton. My Flipper Beast, who won’t be a teen for almost a decade, expressed great joy at seeing the TAF and played it for a prolonged period. I had promised him a Hurricane, which they used to have at that venue, which is - of course - even more retro!
Click to expand...


Well I'm 47 and wouldn't know anything about being a hipster 😂

What I do know is that as we get older we get better jobs and earn a bit more money. When I was in my 20's my hobbies were cheap and I certainly would not have considered getting into a hobby as expensive as pinball ownership.

We caught the bug at arcades because there was nothing else to do. When I was a kid every other kid I knew had been to the arcade and certainly played pinball. A few pals had a C64 but there wasn't really the option to sit at home and be entertained. We also had a youth club with table tennis, pool and pinball but I'm pretty sure consoles have killed off the youth clubs unless anyone can tell me anything to the contrary.

I have 4 kids 16, 14,12 & 7 and every time a new friend of theirs visits they ask what the pinball machine is. There are still arcades and locations but the number of kids who visit them and sample pinball is incredibly low . . . . in essence they won't catch the bug as youngsters in order to create enough future 50 years old's to sustain high level pinball purchases.

Maybe the pinball companies believe that loading their pins with technology will attract the next generation but it won't. I'm sorry to say that my my kids would rather play with their phones than a pinball machine and linking it to an app won't change that. Maybe like @Jmac when they get older and go to uni they would get a house share and put a pinball in it but no student has 1000's for a second hand machine so they won't really ever fall in love with them.

I'm sure all the manufactures are all fully aware that's no bright future 30 years down the line so they'll just fleece all of the over 40's until they pop their clogs.
 
strobey said:
Chalk the price up $250 and just keep it simple. Or just absorb the cost. DLC gmafb...

First it's unfinished code on release (across the industry i mean, which most people now accept as the norm). Now they're monetising that!?

Slippery slope.
It sets a commercial precident to actually HOLD BACK final code.

What next, an annual subscription for security updates? You can see it coming can't you.

Honestly I'm suprised so many are accepting this. It's misguided at best and pure greed at worst.
Click to expand...

Nonsense!!!

The game is finished - its a remake of the original with some things added and new lights, upgraded sounds and upgraded full colour graphics. Its the same product that MMR, AFMR and MBR is. You pay your money and you get your game.

CGC have said that they will offer a new chapter of the game with new code written by Lyman (and Josh); It's fortuitous that Lyman left Stern and has time to kill, if he hadn't then you'd get CCR as it is and be done with it. Maybe after this Lyman will do new code for MMR AFMR and MBR! Unsurprisingly they want to pay Lyman so he can eat and live in a house. That means they need to charge you.

The reason DLC exists btw is because it so expensive to make games, people compare Jet Set Willy 8bit graphics that they paid £5.50 for to UHD HDR and don't see the fact that the cost to produce that is several orders of magnitude different; the games companies *had* to find new revenue streams and news ways to pay, otherwise you'd be paying £200 a game.
 
mission65 said:
i Own an original, and as there are so few in existence the attempt by this company to provide something very close to the original is great.
I personally am not of the view that it is a remake because new coding and components of any game makes it a copy.
Queue Neil with probably a reply with a weird rhetoric 😂
Click to expand...

it's a copy just like yours is the copy of the game MikeP has in flipout - Using the original moulds and assets from WMS.
 
At 8k I think the Special Edition is pretty good value compared to the Stern & JJP prices.

I think it's exceptional and I have to say that if it was available right now I'd have a decision to make. Stick some art blades on there and it's top-notch.
 
Ok I’ve put my Tin hat on and here is my theory!
I think CGC’s decision to take on Lyman wasn’t purely for CC. I think this is only the start and he will slowly work through a lot of the older Ball/Will games to revitalise them for the home environment.
Let’s face it games like MB and I’ve had at least 4 inc the remake LE desperately need this as a couple of games and you find yourself getting both Monster Bash and Monsters of rock fairly easily.
This does not make it a bad game in fact it’s one of the best ever family friendly or non pinhead games bescause it’s simple to understand. But imagine being able to switch to a newer, deeper code that you can get your teeth into! (Drac pun right there) I personally think they will make some great income for the company whatever they charge.
This is obviously if they can work logistics with Anti-piracy measures by maybe using some kind or hardware dongle or encoded eprom. As for cost the skys the limit in this game it seems.
Then again I’m wrong more than I’m right but I’m allowed to speculate whist wearing the sacred tin hat.
 
Colywobbles said:
Ok I’ve put my Tin hat on and here is my theory!
I think CGC’s decision to take on Lyman wasn’t purely for CC. I think this is only the start and he will slowly work through a lot of the older Ball/Will games to revitalise them for the home environment.
Let’s face it games like MB and I’ve had at least 4 inc the remake LE desperately need this as a couple of games and you find yourself getting both Monster Bash and Monsters of rock fairly easily.
This does not make it a bad game in fact it’s one of the best ever family friendly or non pinhead games bescause it’s simple to understand. But imagine being able to switch to a newer, deeper code that you can get your teeth into! (Drac pun right there) I personally think they will make some great income for the company whatever they charge.
This is obviously if they can work logistics with Anti-piracy measures by maybe using some kind or hardware dongle or encoded eprom. As for cost the skys the limit in this game it seems.
Then again I’m wrong more than I’m right but I’m allowed to speculate whist wearing the sacred tin hat.
Click to expand...


I like this actually Col.

As someone who is not a great player I like the new lease of life given to these older games.

I don't mind upgrading in the future to an updated strategy particularly if they can retrospectively add in some new animations and characters on the screen.

I much prefer that to the Stern Insider (which is implementing stuff I neither want or have asked for). At least with a future Lyman code I have a choice.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom