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Big hurt Coil locked on - troubleshooting fun, let's all learn!

K

KillerQ

Hey, All...

I just picked up a 1995 Gottlieb Big Hurt machine and it's an absolute blast. It's a blast to play even though it didn't come with a coil in the center ramp lifter or on the right Kicker/slingshot.

The fact that those coils were pulled made me think that the old owner was lazy and there may have been an issue beyond just a 'bad' coil.

So, I purchased a new coil for the right slingshot (part #5195) and put it in. The coil locked on immediately, so I shut the machine off.

In Doing some research, and giving myself a crash course in schematics, I learned that transistor Q4 on the driver board controlled the right Kicker coil. I tested that specific transistor, and it was blown. So, I successfully replaced that old 12n10L with a IRL540, and tried the test again. (ironically, I also replaced Q12 which was blown - and this happened to be the transistor that controls the center ramp lifter assembly.... But I'm not focusing on that coil at the moment)

The coil immediately locked. I shut the machine off. Thankfully, the new transistor and the coil, as well as the coil diode all still test OK, so nothing has blown again, thankfully....

Are there any other common things to check in this case? I also have lamp #10 that always stays on, so I'm not sure if that is on the lamp matrix in such a position that it's messing with the switch matrix and impacting the tight Kicker....

I just realized this.... even though nothing seems strange during gameplay with switches, when I run a Switch test, there are several switches that show as being closed. Perhaps I should check every one of those and check for shorts and ground issues before I start diagnosing the coil lock, as they may be related.....right?

Thanks a ton in advance, and I hope others can use this post in the future - I know I would, lol.

Thanks again,

Matt!
 
I do not know gottlieb games, never owned one.

Some switches in pinball machines are normally closed. In 90s Bally and Williams games the opto switches are normally closed for example.

I do not know how gottlieb switches control the slingshots, but a faulty pop bumper switch on a late 80s williams game can lock the coils on the pop bumpers, then destroy components on the driver board.

It is worth going through the workshop manual and running a switch test to check that all your switches all operating as they should, and correctly normally open or normally closed as appropriate. As your game had coils removed, the previous owner tried and failed to fix things, so test it thoroughly ..... correct fuses ?

My twilight zone had a new rottendog driver board fitted. The seller gave me the original driver board too. When i tried out the original driver board, I had a permanently locked on flasher, which is controlled by a power transistor like a coil. It transpired that the previous owner had been down the transistor and diode replacement route before on the game's original board. But the problem that defeated him (hence why he bought the new rottendog driver board) was one level higher up. The chip that controlled the drive transistor also had failed.

I sent my board away to get this problem diagnosed and fixed, but it was a very cheap repair only requiring a single chip
 
Thanks so much for that info.... As far as correct fuses go, if it's not blown, along as the fuse is there, it will not cause a problem, right?

Actually, now that I think about it... Overfusing will cause a device to burn up as opposed to the fuses popping.....
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Also, the manual specifically states that ask switches should show OPEN when properly running in test mode.
 
Here...
 

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KillerQ said:
I just realized this.... even though nothing seems strange during gameplay with switches, when I run a Switch test, there are several switches that show as being closed. Perhaps I should check every one of those and check for shorts and ground issues before I start diagnosing the coil lock, as they may be related.....right?
Click to expand...

Correct. You could/should disconnect the solenoid driver connectors from the driver PCB until this has been resolved. That will save you blown fuses and locked on coils.
 
The correct fuses must be used. The wrong ones can cause serious damage as they allow too much current to pass through components which can fry silicon chips, melt board tracks, melt coils, cause fires etc
 
Thanks for the info...

I did the switch test again to verify what was showing closed. The two switches that showed were TROUGH and OUTHOLE. But, since I still had the balls in the machine during this test,that explains both of these switches.... So, all switches are now open.
 
DRD said:
I do not know gottlieb games, never owned one.

Some switches in pinball machines are normally closed. In 90s Bally and Williams games the opto switches are normally closed for example.

I do not know how gottlieb switches control the slingshots, but a faulty pop bumper switch on a late 80s williams game can lock the coils on the pop bumpers, then destroy components on the driver board.

It is worth going through the workshop manual and running a switch test to check that all your switches all operating as they should, and correctly normally open or normally closed as appropriate. As your game had coils removed, the previous owner tried and failed to fix things, so test it thoroughly ..... correct fuses ?

My twilight zone had a new rottendog driver board fitted. The seller gave me the original driver board too. When i tried out the original driver board, I had a permanently locked on flasher, which is controlled by a power transistor like a coil. It transpired that the previous owner had been down the transistor and diode replacement route before on the game's original board. But the problem that defeated him (hence why he bought the new rottendog driver board) was one level higher up. The chip that controlled the drive transistor also had failed.

I sent my board away to get this problem diagnosed and fixed, but it was a very cheap repair only requiring a single chip
Click to expand...

Good news, I found someone who had a new Rottendog Gottlieb System 3 driver board (here: http://rottendog.us/GDB003.html) for free in a trade!

I'm so excited! I just wanna make sure that there's not any other possible grounding issues or shorts in the playfield before I toss this pretty new board in, lol, I would die if something blew on the new board right away...



Thanks!
 
Board swaps help identify the source of the problem. But in my experience, Rottendog boards are rubbish. Rottendog is better than a dead game, but the last resort option imho. I had two rottendog boards in my tz. I replaced both of them with originals. The originals are FAR FAR better.

If the board swap reveals your original board to be at fault, get it repaired.
 
KillerQ said:
Hey, All...

I just picked up a 1995 Gottlieb Big Hurt machine and it's an absolute blast. It's a blast to play even though it didn't come with a coil in the center ramp lifter or on the right Kicker/slingshot.

The fact that those coils were pulled made me think that the old owner was lazy and there may have been an issue beyond just a 'bad' coil.

So, I purchased a new coil for the right slingshot (part #5195) and put it in. The coil locked on immediately, so I shut the machine off.

In Doing some research, and giving myself a crash course in schematics, I learned that transistor Q4 on the driver board controlled the right Kicker coil. I tested that specific transistor, and it was blown. So, I successfully replaced that old 12n10L with a IRL540, and tried the test again. (ironically, I also replaced Q12 which was blown - and this happened to be the transistor that controls the center ramp lifter assembly.... But I'm not focusing on that coil at the moment)

The coil immediately locked. I shut the machine off. Thankfully, the new transistor and the coil, as well as the coil diode all still test OK, so nothing has blown again, thankfully....

Are there any other common things to check in this case? I also have lamp #10 that always stays on, so I'm not sure if that is on the lamp matrix in such a position that it's messing with the switch matrix and impacting the tight Kicker....

I just realized this.... even though nothing seems strange during gameplay with switches, when I run a Switch test, there are several switches that show as being closed. Perhaps I should check every one of those and check for shorts and ground issues before I start diagnosing the coil lock, as they may be related.....right?

Thanks a ton in advance, and I hope others can use this post in the future - I know I would, lol.

Thanks again,

Matt!
Click to expand...



You need the right fuse - over fusing will eventually feck summat up
assuming switch 13 is not stuck on - if switch is stuck on, the driver board will do as its told - ie when that switch is on activate the kicking coil

Disconnect A3:j5 - this connector is the out drive line for both solenoids - I assume it will now be open(not locking on).
If so assume board fault which would normally be knackered mosfet(not transistors - the IRL's are mosfets),or could be chip driving that is goosed - chip U1 in the case of the kicker - less likely,and frequently others driven off that chip may be locked on too,tho not always


With connector off ,If still locked on however there is an earth somehow getting down the drive line

Agree with opinions on rottendog stuff

Reseat all connectors as par for the course of a new game,and check for corrosion/battery damage.
I also check ALL fuses on new games I buy -- seen horrendous over fusing in the past,as well as nails,tin foil etc!!

No time to look deep at up lifter or stuck on lamp ( lamp could just be driver blown)


BTW CORRECT solenoids resistance values are in manual page 26 - another great Gottlieb idea(along woth their colour coding)

Avail over phone if required for short times - but VERY busy preparing for our show

Poibug
 
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TYHO said:
You need the right fuse - over fusing will eventually feck summat up
assuming switch 13 is not stuck on - if switch is stuck on, the driver board will do as its told - ie when that switch is on activate the kicking coil

Disconnect A3:j5 - this connector is the out drive line for both solenoids - I assume it will now be open(not locking on).
If so assume board fault which would normally be knackered mosfet(not transistors - the IRL's are mosfets),or could be chip driving that is goosed - chip U1 in the case of the kicker - less likely,and frequently others driven off that chip may be locked on too,tho not always


With connector off ,If still locked on however there is an earth somehow getting down the drive line

Agree with opinions on rottendog stuff

Reseat all connectors as par for the course of a new game,and check for corrosion/battery damage.
I also check ALL fuses on new games I buy -- seen horrendous over fusing in the past,as well as nails,tin foil etc!!

No time to look deep at up lifter or stuck on lamp ( lamp could just be driver blown)


BTW CORRECT solenoids resistance values are in manual page 26 - another great Gottlieb idea(along woth their colour coding)

Avail over phone if required for short times - but VERY busy preparing for our show

Poibug
Click to expand...

Thanks for the awesome, detailed response.... I pulled A3:j5 and the coil DID not lock. So, that's good... At this point, I'm gonna chalk it up to a bad driver board. I'll see what happens with the rottendog board, and get the original one repaired to 100% either way.
 
so provided you have checked the switces in the switch matrix check,yes it probably is driver.as i said if they are on the game will do as told,fire coil as switch xx is made. Btw u don't for the most part have to fit a Gottlieb coil,so long as same make up, a coil is essentially two parts, a gage of cable eg 23 and a number of turns eg 800, thus a standard 23-800 coil
 
Hello. Yes, thanks for checking. The game is now 100% restored. I added two new coils, and replaced the driver board (have to swap out an IC chip) but the new board makes everything work perfect.
 
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