Apollo 13 multiball headscratcher

[taz turbo]

Using my quiet time to have a look at a couple of small issues on the collection...

Turns out my A13 is poorly...

Plays perfectly in every instance UNTIL the 13 ball multiball plays, once all 13 balls are on the playfield and subsequently lost, they just back up in the ball trough. My suspicion was an issue with the opto in the ball trough , however Iv'e checked the switch diagnostics and all is good for this switch and all other switches. Also during 13 ball and only 13 ball play both flippers die occasionally, maybe 1 time in 10., the CPU doesn't reset at this point. On checking switch diagnostics all shows good, on exiting diagnostics, the CPU re-boots and the backed up balls then correctly reload into the 8 ball trough (storage point for balls when 13 balls are not being played) and a new game starts as if there was never an issue!

My understanding is if the trough VUK opto was obstructed the ball trough ball release shouldn't release the next ball, and the ball trough ball switches would need to register to allow the ball release to drop the next ball into the ball feed VUK??

So far...

Iv'e changed the ball trough VUK opto - same.
Checked voltage to ball trough ball release - nothing when fault occurs.
Checked all switch inputs repeatedly - all good and reliable.
Checked the 8 ball switch membrane - all good and reliable.
Checked the CPU 5V = 5.10V with 13mV AC ripple.


England 2.05 CPU software - cant find a copy of this to verify what I've got.
A2.01 display software.


Starting to get a little frustrated with this one now, just not getting anywhere.

Is there such a thing as an 8 x 8 dot matrix display that could be plugged into the switch rows and columns to look at the inputs in real time?

Tried a bit of googling on this one, did find similar on here 6 years or so ago, but no conclusion, but from that thread I did interestingly find about service bulletin 81 and the mod required for the moon magnet, parts ordered for that, maybe my moon will then be reliable for the first time!

Any help gratefully received.

Chris.

 

[pinballmania]

There is a problem with the a13 ball trough that might be the issue. The trough has the ball lock and release system. The balls are held back and dispensed one at a time. IF the balls are magnetised or balls do not run freely for any other reason during a release, the release arm can return and sit on top of the first ball due to be released. It’s them held and not sitting on any switches. Subsequent balls entering the trough back up behind it and all sit between switches. Therefore the machine doesn’t think there are any balls in the through and so doesn’t attempt to release any.

The problem is exacerbated by the fact that when all balls have drained and nothing is scoring the subsequent ball search never includes the trough ball release.

So when you get this issue, open the coin door and look at where the balls are sitting in the trough.

 

[taz turbo]

Thanks Andy

I’ve already got the apron removed for investigations, and can see the trough easily from above, all balls look to be in the correct position and there’s no ball jammed in the ball release.


Balls appear visually correct.


Ball release not looking jammed. Possibly should of said, in looking at this problem I have already replaced the coil sleeve in the ball release mechanism, no change.


Trough switch diagnostics look good (the column of five in the second column from the left) the other two inputs are the rocket and moon in their home positions.

If I manually operate the ball release one ball drops into the VUK and then ejected to the shooter lane, I can launch the ball but once it drains it will sit in the large heap with its 12 friends. If I power off or enter and exit the service menu causing the CPU to reboot, the 8 ball trough is then reloaded and play continues as normal.

Bit mystified, still, how many months have I got to get to the bottom of this one!!!

 

[myPinballs]

Have you checked the 8 ball trough? The one up in the left where the balls sit ready for the 13 ball 'extravaganza'?

This is a touch contact pcb membrane type affair, like zx spectrum keyboard membranes, and we know how reliable those were....

Possibly if one of these is closed/not opening fully/stuck/broken, the game software will get confused and think hang on the balls are already in the 8 ball trough, what do you want me to do with these extra balls???

 

[taz turbo]

Hello Jim,

Yes, checked the 8 ball trough, always checked good, no inputs when empty and all inputs when fully loaded, checked individually loading one ball at a time manually and watching the diagnostics, always shows correct.

There is an option in the adjustment menu to disable the 8 ball trough, have done this, didn’t effect game play at all, still dumps those 8 balls when the 13 ball(ache) starts.

Also checked the service alerts for switches that haven’t changed state in the last 50 games, all good.... apparently!

The flippers stopping working intermittently is interesting, again only during 13 ball play and maybe one time in 10, all very odd.

It had been working fine some months ago, nothing hacked or changed then it started doing this.

I will take a look again later....

 

[pinballmania]

I assume you have reenabled the 8 ball trough.

 

[pinballmania]

When all else fails sometimes a full factory reset can reset what appear as software glitches.

 

[taz turbo]

Gents,

Many thanks for your assistance

I did re-enable the 8 ball trough and did a factory reset, to no avail.

But Huston we have success!!!

I emptied the 8 ball trough and 5 ball trough, checked the switch inputs all good (0) and put 6 balls in the 5 ball trough and checked the switch inputs, all good. Exited service closed the door and tried starting a game, 8 pinballs missing displayed as normal, it tried loading the 8 ball trough but only put 5 of the 6 balls in there! It’s not seeing switch 5 (there numbered back to front in my mind!) in the trough, 1 ball remained in there, I dropped in another ball, it loaded one more to the 8 ball trough!

So checked the switch inputs again, showing one ball in the 5 ball trough in position 5 correct! Hmmmm, started following the wire back from trough switch 5 while in switch test, soon started getting the status changing! Then found this....



The white with blue stripe! Plugged back in, and working as it should

Still don’t understand why the the diagnostic inputs was always correct and to why the flippers would also die! Maybe best not to overthink this?

Thank you again gent’s

Chris.

 

[M4carp]

Had a similar thing happen on my TZ but the wire popped out of the crimp, bet you feel good now

 

[taz turbo]

Had a similar thing happen on my TZ but the wire popped out of the crimp, bet you feel good now

Feel happy it’s sorted, feel stupid for having to ask for help! Still don’t understand why the switch input in diagnostics was always showing it was functioning correctly.

Couple more bits to look at on A13 then a look at my F355 twin, it won’t link anymore, optic fibre I’m hoping

Chris.