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Apollo 13 Issues

Calimori

Calimori

Staff member
Joined
Mar 15, 2012
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Luton, UK
Alias
Calimori
I won't be doing a shop log as I don't have the time before the Slam. I just want to make Cooldan's machine work as well as possible. It issues and some Gremlins that I would like to iron out before the Slam.

Issues
13 ball multiball, quick drain results in it not knowing where 8 balls (from the back 8 ball lock up) are. It then spits a ball into the shooter lane, realises that it still have 5 in the trough so loads it into the 8 ball lock up, it slowly repeats the process for the 8 balls as part of a ball search process. I have looked but it would seem that it doesn't know there are the extra balls waiting to get into the (5 ball) trough. Is there a switch I can't see not working or this normal?
No issue if you play well, as you drain the balls a few at a time it automatically loads them into the 8 ball lock up but newbies can loose five at a time and once the trough is full it goes into ball search for the other 8.
Another 13 ball glitch was watching someone drain five balls that were slowly re-loaded into the 8 ball lock up, they then drained the other 8 balls in quick succession. The machine dumped the 5 already loaded into the 8 ball lock up and let them carry on playing. Then filled the 5 ball trough and didn't know what to so with the other 3 balls. When they drained all the balls, it then had 8 balls waiting to get into the 5 ball trough but went into a ball search again for them.

In the roll over targets the 3 in 13 is always lit and wont move when you hit the flippers. The 1 can be lit and appears to move.

The moon magnet appears to work fine and not be shorted. The mini driver board has had the IRL540 replaced as it was shorted. No other shorts located or identified. 4A in-line fuse blows quickly. I realise that I am using timed (T) and not actually Slo-blo fuses and have read for some people that made a difference when everything else worked fine. Where can I get actual slo-blow fuses and not timed and is there actually any difference?

This game was very popular with the 2 year nephew yesterday, I would like to get it fully working so he can really appreciate the deep and rewarding game play.
 
Calimori said:
I won't be doing a shop log as I don't have the time before the Slam. I just want to make Cooldan's machine work as well as possible. It issues and some Gremlins that I would like to iron out before the Slam.

Issues
13 ball multiball, quick drain results in it not knowing where 8 balls (from the back 8 ball lock up) are. It then spits a ball into the shooter lane, realises that it still have 5 in the trough so loads it into the 8 ball lock up, it slowly repeats the process for the 8 balls as part of a ball search process. I have looked but it would seem that it doesn't know there are the extra balls waiting to get into the (5 ball) trough. Is there a switch I can't see not working or this normal?
No issue if you play well, as you drain the balls a few at a time it automatically loads them into the 8 ball lock up but newbies can loose five at a time and once the trough is full it goes into ball search for the other 8.
Another 13 ball glitch was watching someone drain five balls that were slowly re-loaded into the 8 ball lock up, they then drained the other 8 balls in quick succession. The machine dumped the 5 already loaded into the 8 ball lock up and let them carry on playing. Then filled the 5 ball trough and didn't know what to so with the other 3 balls. When they drained all the balls, it then had 8 balls waiting to get into the 5 ball trough but went into a ball search again for them.
Click to expand...
It likely means the 8 ball "membrane" is not seeing the balls properly - there is a pad on the 8 ball ramp (I'm sure you know this) sounds like part of that is knackered. They are NLA and expensive (£200) even if you do find one

In the roll over targets the 3 in 13 is always lit and wont move when you hit the flippers. The 1 can be lit and appears to move.
Click to expand...

You sure it isn't lamp related?

The moon magnet appears to work fine and not be shorted. The mini driver board has had the IRL540 replaced as it was shorted. No other shorts located or identified. 4A in-line fuse blows quickly. I realise that I am using timed (T) and not actually Slo-blo fuses and have read for some people that made a difference when everything else worked fine. Where can I get actual slo-blow fuses and not timed and is there actually any difference?

This game was very popular with the 2 year nephew yesterday, I would like to get it fully working so he can really appreciate the deep and rewarding game play.
Click to expand...

I can't believe it would make a difference in all fairness
 
Thanks for responding.
Wow, £200, I am not sure Cooldan will care that much but the membrain is detecting the 8 balls and appears to be doing it correctly though I will check again. It knows they are missing just not where they are. Time for another look.

Yes, good point. I need to check to see if the lamp wiring has a short or something.

So you are saying the moon magnet is a waste of time? If it is not really adding to the game then I might focus on other things for now.
 
Calimori said:
So you are saying the moon magnet is a waste of time? If it is not really adding to the game then I might focus on other things for now.
Click to expand...

I read that as Nick saying that there was no difference between Timed and Slow blow fuses, not that the moon magnet is a waste of time...

Have you checked that 4A is the correct rating for the magnet?
 
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Damn, so the moon magnet is worth fixing :rolleyes:.

4A is the correct fuse according to the manual. There are a lot of internet posts about the magnet fuse blowing and one suggestion was that timed fuses could be more sensitive than slow blow. Others talk about shorted wires in the moon but those people didn't get an energised magnet like I have. I will have another session with it as I think I am going to have to get the countdown board out and check that as it seems to play a part.
 
just looking up the differences, although i know there is one...

EDIT :

Time delay fuses will react to long term overload currents but will
withstand transient surges without harm; several types are available.
For example, one type has what looks like a spring inside the barrel and
these will stand up to surges of around ten times the normal rating for
75 milliseconds. Another type has a "blob" in the middle of the fuse
element and this type has a reduced surge capacity, typically ten times
rated current but only for 25 milliseconds. Time delay types have a very
low resistance and can be used in enclosed places as there is little
self-generated heat but they are only available in the lower current
ratings. Both the "spring" and the "blob" type are time delay fuses.
 
Looking at the board that does standard lights, the countdown timer and apparently magnet control, there are two interesting pcb tracks.
img.tapatalk.com_d_14_02_20_rasu9e3y.jpgimg.tapatalk.com_d_14_02_20_qudevu4y.jpg

There are also these, can someone help me out with what they are so I can test them?
I refer to q4, q5 and q6.
img.tapatalk.com_d_14_02_20_etuju6at.jpg

Thanks.
 
I just managed to read off the side of them and two are 2N3904 and one is a 2N3906 which are NPN or PNP bipolar junction transistors.
 
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They seem to test fine but it is hard to say with them on the board so I need some replacements. I also will replace the NE555N IC as that is also reported as a fault.
If anyone has any of these they want to sell me, I am happy to cover costs and postage. Don't do it for me, don't do it for Cooldan, do it for the SLAM. ;)
 
That's the fellow but other than a bit if confusion as to which ball is where the membrane seems to be fine. I will check the connector and wires but I think it is working fine. As are all the trough switches after my work the other week.

Just had the moon apart and stripped back the celotape on the coil, there are certainly no issues there and I now get 4.6 ohm which I believe is about right. All taped back up and ready to be returned to the machine. What a pain to get that out, so many bits need removing. :(


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
Try a 5 Amp slow-blow and see if that goes too. If it does then you've got something drawing too much current in the circuit (eg. transistor). Yes it's over rating the fuse and shouldn't be a regular practice but it's a way to fault find.

On second thoughts I'd look at using a 4Amp circuit breaker in place of the 4 Amp fuse. In my experience circuit breakers are a lot more robust and easy to re-set rather than continually replacing fuses.

http://www.1stoppinball.com/collect...s/circuit-breakers-temporary-fuse-replacement
 
Thanks Pete, a timely reminder to buy a very useful tool during fault diagnosis.
 
I'm talking about leaving it permamently installed in place of the fuse as they can take far more punishment than a slow-blow fuse, plus if it does go you just reset it... :D In an ideal world if money was no objective then all PCBs would have the slow-blow fuses replaced with CB's. :cool:
 
Ha, you think I am going to leave expensive thinks like a £2.75 circuit breaker in CoolDan's machine when I return it? :D

In an ideal world the fuses would never be needed :). However, this is not an ideal world but the CB will let me check if I have fixed the issue as at the moment I am down to my last 4amp SB and when that goes I can test no more.
 
buy an extra one and i'll buy you a beer to cover it so you can leave it in, and at the Slam we can see if the problem gets solved by the hive mind.
actually i will probably also owe you some money for other parts and costs, but if i can avoid buying any £150 membrane then i will, as i doubt that adding it would suddenly make the machine worth the extra £150 on top of the sale price.

of course if the consensus is that buying and installing it will put the machine back up to 100% functional, maybe it's worthwhile, but i don't think we're there yet.

Geoff, i really appreciate your efforts with this game. and everyone will benefit from playing it at the Slam in its best possible condition.
 
I don't think we need a new membrane so we will leave that off the shopping list. Everything else has just been small components and I get to enjoy the machines and I like a project so you do not owe me anything. All part of the pinball foster care program. ;)
 
Calimori said:
Thanks for responding.
Wow, £200, I am not sure Cooldan will care that much but the membrain is detecting the 8 balls and appears to be doing it correctly though I will check again. It knows they are missing just not where they are. Time for another look.

Yes, good point. I need to check to see if the lamp wiring has a short or something.

So you are saying the moon magnet is a waste of time? If it is not really adding to the game then I might focus on other things for now.
Click to expand...

Seems there is a definite switch issue somewhere then

The magnet is a "nice to do" but it's no great shakes in reality - it picks up the ball, the moon turns and then drops the ball
 
Yesterday I replaced the 1x 555 timing chip, 2 x 2n3904 and 1 x 2n3906 on the lighting board and then the magnet was permanently on which would melt something. I had previously replaced the IRL540N on the magnet board but a quick check this morning proved this had blown again. That has now been repaired and test mode indicates that the magnet holds and grabs but I need to refit the under ramp to play it properly.

So a quick list of things to checked and repaired
Inline fuse near magnet: 4 amp
Magnet should read about 4.7 ohms resistance
Magnet control board up near right flipper: IRL540N ~ £1
Central lighting board: 1x 555 timing chip, 2 x 2n3904 and 1 x 2n3906 ~ £2.60
Fuse 21 in back-box blows: Instructions say 5 amp but apparently a service release says 3 amp (other things won't work so you would know if this was an issue)

Now I need to put it back together and test it works in game play and with fuses not RCB's.
 
I think this machine has beaten me more than I have won. It was one of those situations where you have to re-check what you have already done as previous work (IRL540N) had been damaged by other parts that I hadn't yet replaced.
I don't remember if any of those transistors test ok, or if the timing chip was the culprit (couldn't test) but for £2.60 from the local maplins, it was a no-brainer to just do them all. The 555 timing chip is now socketed so future replacement is easy.

The most important step in fixing these machines is being able to troubleshoot and test a component. Otherwise all of our work is based on false assumptions.
 
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