"lol" postage and import duties for me was rediculous, I kept forgetting something or coming across something that I actually needed. It would have been cheaper to just take the manual and tick every part in each mech
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Am I crazy to attempt a ‘super-mint’ restoration?
- Thread starter VeeMonroe
- Start date
Rottendog have a reputation of being s**t, they are known to have issues direct from the factory as new, with dodgy soldiering or other faults. Still better to have a board than none at all. I would def get those checked.
From what you're saying it feels like you want to refurbish it (properly not like HLD) so it's close to new...not super mint.
Super mint is better than new, look at Daveys Creature or Fish Tales, or the work of Chris B.
Super mint is better than new, look at Daveys Creature or Fish Tales, or the work of Chris B.
I personally wouldn’t use a mouse sander not only are they not very good you need a random orbital sander to do the job properly
Do it! It’s expensive, dirty time consuming and extremely frustrating at times but the amount of skills and knowledge you learn is incredible plus you get a great game out of it and a few new tools!
I’d do more my self but never got any time these days but as kids get older I’ll certainly do it again if machine prices are even affordable then
I’d do more my self but never got any time these days but as kids get older I’ll certainly do it again if machine prices are even affordable then
Will do. I’ll give them a good check over. Thanks.
Totally agree with my ol' pal Dave. "Super mint" would the the likes of replacing the playfield, plating or powder coating all the mechs and going to bonkers extremes of OCD to end up with a machine so beautiful you don't want to touch it, this isn't realistic for your first project. Pulling off good restore work takes time, and experience and knowledge. I've done restorations well into 75+ hours of work and even still would not class them as "super mint". Start by doing little bits here and there and gain the experience and tooling slowly over time, otherwise you'll be in way over your head with a pile of expensive equipment and tooling that you don't know how to use.
Ah, okay. Maybe it’s a definition thing, then
I’ve already modded the FT beyond what came with the ‘new’ machine. I was going to add a lighted speaker panel, mirrored speaker decorations, etc. and also powder coat/chrome the casting trigger/armour, add side blades and an illuminated casting button. I figured that, if I also re-decalled the machine, checked, cleaned and rebuilt the mechs (where necessary) and replaced the playfield - that made it ‘super-mint’ because - obviously - it was modded to be better than new.
I wasn’t going to go totally OCD with it. I wouldn’t thank you for a machine ‘so beautiful you don’t want to touch it TBH’ - I have pinball-loving young kids
I’ll probably start, as planned, by building a repro topper (I already have parts) and then go from there.
My actual problem is that I can only work on any pin for an hour or so at a time without having to move it into another room. This is because we can’t leave the glass off, the coin door open, or any exposed mechanics while it’s in the front room because it’s also the playroom, and our toddler tries to stick his head in it! Any work taking longer than that, the entire pin needs to move into the back room. Once it’s there, it’s a huge hassle to move back, which means it makes sense to do any other planned work at the same time.
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Deleted member 2463
Yes.
LOL
You wanna rebuild all the mechs not just a handful coil sleeves and bits only cost penniesAh, okay. Maybe it’s a definition thing, then
I’ve already modded the FT beyond what came with the ‘new’ machine. I was going to add a lighted speaker panel, mirrored speaker decorations, etc. and also powder coat/chrome the casting trigger/armour, add side blades and an illuminated casting button. I figured that, if I also re-decalled the machine, checked, cleaned and rebuilt the mechs (where necessary) and replaced the playfield - that made it ‘super-mint’ because - obviously - it was modded to be better than new.
I wasn’t going to go totally OCD with it. I wouldn’t thank you for a machine ‘so beautiful you don’t want to touch it TBH’ - I have pinball-loving young kids
I’ll probably start, as planned, by building a repro topper (I already have parts) and then go from there.
My actual problem is that I can only work on any pin for an hour or so at a time without having to move it into another room. This is because we can’t leave the glass off, the coin door open, or any exposed mechanics while it’s in the front room because it’s also the playroom, and our toddler tries to stick his head in it! Any work taking longer than that, the entire pin needs to move into the back room. Once it’s there, it’s a huge hassle to move back, which means it makes sense to do any other planned work at the same time.
You will learn a huge amount, and make lots of mistakes, the first time you do a restoration. So I would do another restoration on a practice machine that you don't care about so much the first time. Make all the mistakes on that machine. Then you will be able to do your Fish Tales with confidence, much better. Or if you discover you have bitten off more than you can chew, it wont matter and you can sell it as a project and still have your Fish Tales.
Yeah. That was kinda my original plan. I was planning to get a non-working EM for £250-£350 off eBay/FB and see if I could get it into a tidy and playable state. I like a good EM and I figured it wouldn't be a huge financial loss if I completely messed it up!
I started wondering if I should do FT instead because we don't have the space right now to work on an EM, and FT keeps spawning faults. It feels like we just fix one thing and there's something else, and I feel it would have better reliability if I systematically checked, cleaned and repaired all the mechs and wiring.
In that case I would suggest doing the machine in parts. Start by taking the apron off and taking off the trough parts, clean and check the coils and switches, etc, clean that part of the playfield, and then reassamble. Then do the slingshots, top and bottom side, and reassemble. And so on. That way you are never more than a few hours work at most from a fully reasssembled machine.
It gets a little more complicated as you go further up and remove ramps, but essentially you are going through it methodically, gaining familiarity with each part, without ever having a huge amount of parts removed, and forgetting what everything is.
Once you have done this the machine will be in a far better state. And then you will be familiar with it all, and if you later decide to strip the whole thing top and bottom and clean/replace everything you will know exactly what it entails, and what the tricky bits are (pop bumpers, I am looking at you!)
Just my 10p worth!
It gets a little more complicated as you go further up and remove ramps, but essentially you are going through it methodically, gaining familiarity with each part, without ever having a huge amount of parts removed, and forgetting what everything is.
Once you have done this the machine will be in a far better state. And then you will be familiar with it all, and if you later decide to strip the whole thing top and bottom and clean/replace everything you will know exactly what it entails, and what the tricky bits are (pop bumpers, I am looking at you!)
Just my 10p worth!
You will be fine, work on the fish tails, if I can do STTNG you can def do fish tails.
I think people are getting confused with supermint, supermint in this forum means an OCD restore that would require an expert level of skill and experience to achieve. Your looking for a machine that plays well without any issues.
The issue your describing I suspect will disappear with rebuilds of the mechs. Take a page from the manual for say right upkicker and replace all the parts, except for the brackets unless there rusted and terrible.
Gotta say, I'd like it to look pretty as well
But everyone is correct - I can do the faded cab as a separate project. I don't need to rip everything off the playfield to re-decal the cab.The brackets are rusted and terrible to a disturbing extent! To be honest, looking under the playfield, I am routinely surprised that it works as well as it does.
That's a good idea. It does create a whole extra project if I want to swap the playfield but it's entirely possible, working a section at a time, that we can even keep Fish Tales mostly in the front room because it can be made 'child-proof' between work sessions.
Order the brackets from Marco, it's probably the only place you will get them, the right upkicker for sTtNG was pretty badly rusted inside and I replaced it from them. A tumbler might have sorted it, but at the time I didn't know about themGotta say, I'd like it to look pretty as well
The brackets are rusted and terrible to a disturbing extent! To be honest, looking under the playfield, I am routinely surprised that it works as well as it does.
That's a good idea. It does create a whole extra project if I want to swap the playfield but it's entirely possible, working a section at a time, that we can even keep Fish Tales mostly in the front room because it can be made 'child-proof' between work sessions.
A 'SUPERMINT' restoration means to me:
Total cab strip down, repair, paint inside and out - redecal. New legs, new side rails, new lockdown bar, new lockdown bar receiver.
New playfield, with new ramps, new plastics, new targets, new switches, new flipper assemblies, new pop bumpers.
New glass all round.
Power coating.
You are talking 7-10 days if working good long days and having all the parts and materials on hand.
It costs the same to do this to a £2K game than a £8K game. This is why you do not see JD on the pinball heaven website under 'mint restoration'.
I did a WhiteWater about 18 months ago. Lost a fortune on it. The job was half done when I got it.
In reality, once a game is restored are you going to want to play it? It always terrifies me after I do one. The first chip or dent is never nice.
If I was you, play it - and if you still love the game in six months then restore it. But I would not go super mint on a Fish Tales. A lovely Super mint one went for £4200 on here...... Given the cost of the game and the parts you wont get your money back.
OR IGNORE ME 100% AND JUST DO IT! - IT IS YOUR MACHINE.
Total cab strip down, repair, paint inside and out - redecal. New legs, new side rails, new lockdown bar, new lockdown bar receiver.
New playfield, with new ramps, new plastics, new targets, new switches, new flipper assemblies, new pop bumpers.
New glass all round.
Power coating.
You are talking 7-10 days if working good long days and having all the parts and materials on hand.
It costs the same to do this to a £2K game than a £8K game. This is why you do not see JD on the pinball heaven website under 'mint restoration'.
I did a WhiteWater about 18 months ago. Lost a fortune on it. The job was half done when I got it.
In reality, once a game is restored are you going to want to play it? It always terrifies me after I do one. The first chip or dent is never nice.
If I was you, play it - and if you still love the game in six months then restore it. But I would not go super mint on a Fish Tales. A lovely Super mint one went for £4200 on here...... Given the cost of the game and the parts you wont get your money back.
OR IGNORE ME 100% AND JUST DO IT! - IT IS YOUR MACHINE.
This is what I would do too (if I had any inclination or interest in tinkering with a pinball machine!), do it in small chunks so it's manageable, especially if you have smaller projects you could work on like the topper, that don't need the machine taking out of play for too long to work on. That's a long time for a machine to be out of action, and I'm sure it will end up taking much longer than estimated! I think you'd really miss being without it for so long, and so would your family.
I was planning to attempt:
Total cab strip down, fill dints (but unsure how to repair structure), paint orange inside and out, re-decal.
I wasn’t intending to add new legs, new side rails or a new lockdown bar because TBH there isn’t anything structurally wrong with the existing ones - the lockdown bar just needs a clean up and I want to powder coat everything. Getting new ones seems like a waste of good parts
New playfield. Most of the plastics are in excellent condition.
The plastic boat ramp could do with replacing and I need to get a switch cover fabricated because there’s one missing.
I’ve already replaced a broken pop bumper and replaced the decals on the Caster’s Club.
I was going to buy invisiglass.
Powder coating.
The big issue for me is all the assemblies on the underside of the playfield (e.g. flippers, ball poppers). Everything is a) grimy and b) rusty. I’d kinda planned to take apart, check, repair (where necessary), and tumble everything (inc. springs), but it’s unclear whether this is a better use of my money/time than buying new readymade assemblies (where available to purchase).
I just don’t know how good you can get parts by tumbling and whether tumbling springs/assemblies/screws is just asking for trouble… (?)
Rusty parts can be sorted a lot lot quicker than tumbling with rust remover.
I spent nearly an hour cleaning the lockdown bar with tin foil and vinegar a few weeks ago
I didn’t manage to get it fully clean, but - luckily - it will apparently get cleaned up as part of the powder coating process…
What I did learn, however, is that - if I’m going to clean parts - I need to automate the process somehow
Otherwise, I’m going to be finishing renovating FT into my retirement! 
Overnight in evaporust will sort that no problem.
Furiously Googles Evaporust
I have a bit of plastic pipe with one end sealed up, it’s ideal to soak long thin parts like legs and lockdown bars, glass lift bars, etc.
