Am I crazy to attempt a ‘super-mint’ restoration?

[VeeMonroe]

I’m considering doing a full teardown and ‘super-mint’ restore of my Fish Tales. We have two young kids, two full-time jobs and only one room that isn’t the kitchen-diner on our ground floor. Neither of us has any experience restoring pinball machines. Is this insane?

Background: I LOVE my FT, but it feels like it’s got a lot of deferred maintenance. We’ve already repaired a bodge job (a bent bit of wire) on the Caster’s Club, which was causing intermittent errors, but FT now occasionally fires two balls, has repeatedly needed the fuse replacing on the flippers, and the ribbon cables between the colorDMD and one of the boards keep needing to be reseated. There’s minor damage to the playfield including a chunk off at the pop bumpers that I was originally going to touch up and Mylar (pictured), the cab is somewhat faded (pictured), and the underside of the playfield has a lot of rust and grime (pictured).

I’ve got a Godzilla Prem arriving next week and we will have to close off a door to accommodate three pins in the front room. So, I had been wondering if I should take the Fish Tales into the back room/office (where the kids don’t go) and take the opportunity to take it apart for full refurbishment.

My aim would be:

• Build a new fish topper (already have parts, but had COVID over our Xmas holiday);
• Fill, repaint, sand cab and refurbish with glossy RadCals. I’m not a carpenter and have no carpentry equipment, so the filling/repainting/sanding job could be a minor disaster. The cab isn’t that bad, so I was going to be minimalist with my tinkering. Powdercoat the side armour green, and chrome the coin door/casting launcher. Fit a lighted button to the casting launcher. We have some conservatory doors onto a garden, so I thought I could paint the cab outside when the weather improves;
• Strip entire playfield, checking every single assembly for ‘bodged repairs’ and ensuring everything is rust-free and moves freely (no idea how to get the rust off these bits). Replace any dodgy-looking parts. Put everything back onto a new playfield;
• Add ultimate lighted speaker panels and mirrored decorations.

I’ve allocated 6+ months to this because we can only work on the project while our little boys are at their granny’s.

Question to anyone who’s done serious work on a B/W: Given our lack of experience/time, is this idea completely bonkers? Our FT is obviously in relatively good player’s condition. We would lose money on resale from doing all that work, but we don’t plan to sell it.

[NB: The ColorDMD, silicone rubbers, custom backglass and LEDs were all fitted by us. I’ve cleaned and waxed the playfield a bunch of times with Novus 2, etc. but can’t get all the ball trails out].

 

[M4carp]

I did mine ’super mint’, I stripped it and took the cab to Manny who was the best at the time and did amazing work. Came back better than new and did the rest myself. That was years ago and I only did it because it was a keeper as fishing is another hobby.

I would say yes you are crazy, but if it’s an itch you have to scratch then go for it.

Life is too short, just enjoy the game as I think it already cost you enough. You don’t plan to sell it now but…………

Getting working great first and then see where you are maybe.
As for the playfield, you could touch in and/or add decals and put a playfield protector on top if it bothers you that much.

 

[Fubar]

Am I crazy to attempt a ‘super-mint’ restoration?

The answer is of course yes But then again you've got to be a bit crazy to own a pinball machine in the first place

From the pics it looks like it's in fair shape. A cab redecal would certainly look nice. A good strip and clean with minor touchups would probably be sufficient for the playfield side.

That said, if you want to do, just do it! You will learn a lot along the way. Take a lot of pictures before you start and as you go. Just expect to lose a fair chunk of change (but you already said that).

 

[Jib]

I’ve got no experience doing something like this but I’d just simply say if you think you’d enjoy it, do it. If you think it’d be more stress than enjoyment then just do the bits that are easier and make it play better or more fun for you to play. There’s people that actually enjoy the restoring more than playing. I already know I’m someone that prefers playing, I don’t mind doing the simple stuff, adjusting flippers, replacing coil stops etc but a full refurb just wouldn’t be my thing, I’d rather spend that time playing. But everyone’s different and if you enjoy it go for it!

 

[Silverpaolo]

Following

 

[AlanJ]

You will need plenty of space, once you start taking stuff out of the cabinet, it seems to take up all available room

 

[cmrl9]

Hi, I've done this to an extent twice now, first STTNG and the LOTR. As its a Williams expect all sorts of bodges when you take things apart. Your looking at a minimum of £1,500. If you getting decals done ramps, replacing then probably £2,500 to £3k. It might be lower with fish tails as there not as complex as some machines with far less coils.

The question you need to ask am I doing it to make money, if you are then don't, as you won't

If your doing it like I was to have a fully functional pain free machine in the case of STTNG or want it as NIB internally as possible LOTT then it's worth doing. The next owner will appreciate it, if you ever decide to move it on.

There is a degree of fun in the work, I wouldn't call it crazy to do it, it's is crazy if you don't have the money and it puts you in debt, as once you start it is a money pit "lol"

There a couple of people who have done super mint fish tails on here and will probably help and point you in the direction of parts, bits and gotchas.

 

[cmrl9]

Make sure you take lots of pictures, buy lots of freezer bags, but each bit in a bag and label.

It will take up. Alot of space and with kids around they need to be put away. I'd recommend the large plastic tubs.

You really need a separate space to do it, this is one of the reasons why I went at mine over a two week period.

 

[ronsplooter]

If it's a keeper and you think you'll enjoy the experience of restoring it then go for it but the three things to consider are:

• Time - sounds like you've already been thinking about that but it can take a long time to restore a pin if you're only able to spend the odd hour here and there on it. What can start out as enjoyable when you take the game apart could turn into a long drawn out slog especially when all you're doing is cleaning parts and you end up not having the game available for you to play for a while.
• Space - Alan has already mentioned this but you need a decent amount of space to keep everything organised so it doesn't become annoying working on the game. The more games you work on the less you need to keep things separated as you start to know how stuff goes back together but for your first one I'd advise splitting stuff out as much as possible to help when putting it all back together. As well as needing more space this also takes more time Any cabinet work and painting really needs to be done outdoorsor in a garage etc so you don't make a mess of your house
• Tools - To do the best/proper job then you're going to need a lot of tools that you may or may not already have. Factor in the cost of buying the right tools (if you don't have them) when you're figuring out your budget. As someone relatively new to the hobby and working on pins I'm assuming you won't have a large set of tools so things like a tumbler, DA sander, nut drivers, spanners, soldering gear (and maybe desoldering) might all need buying.

At a high level I'd think about the work as follows and you can then decide what you want/are comfortable doing and what you might need to pay someone to do:

• Cabinet - mainly cosmetic so things like woodworking, lots of sanding/filling and decal application. As an example, do you care about the warning text on the rear of the backbox? If you do then you're most likely going to have to get someone to do this for you as buying/making the proper silk screens isn't really worth it unless you do a lot of games.
• Playfield - If you're restoring your original then what are you're painting skills like. If buying new and replacing then obviously a lot simpler, just transferring everything across.
• Mechanics - Lots of cleaning and polishing mixed with some replacing broken parts. Factor in the time to tweak and fiddle with things at the end to get it playing as you want.
• Electronics - The main two things here are issue diagnosis and soldering skills. Are you comfortable working on boards and happy to spend time tracking down issues. This is another area where you can send them out but again just factor it into your budget.

I love working on games as much as I do playing them and have done a fair few over the years but even then I get p*ssed off working on them. The biggest bit of advice I'd say is if it starts to get frustrating or annoying then walk away and come back fresh the next day/time. I've saved myself breaking something so many times by just stepping back and taking a deep breath when a game is winding me up

 

[kev a]

I wouldn't call my project a super mint, but did paint, re-decal and replace the PF on my Whirlwind as a beginner last year.

Obviously prior experience helps, but there's no reason a beginner can't tackle a restore IMO, it really depends on your outlook and what you enjoy.
If your someone who loves research, taking things apart learning how they work and get satisfaction from learning new skills, a restore can be very enjoyable.

The only apprehension I would have is aiming for super mint, Its just not possible to pull off a restoration the level of someone like Pete B, especially on a first attempt.
I'm sure you would be able to make the machine look and play great but don't aim for absolute perfection, you need to be happy with doing the best job you can do.

Have you thought about breaking down the job into two parts, separating PF work and cab re-decal?
Might make the endeavour seem less intimidating and if life commitments get in the way you can be back with a working game faster and pick up the rest at a later date?

 

[Ant-H]

I’d go for it. Do your research, take tons of photos, and give it a go. You will learn loads as you go.

I agree though with what others have said regarding time and space. You will definitely need some space to store everything whilst it’s being stripped. And if you truly want super mint, it may take a lot longer than expected to complete and more money.

By the end of it, your either hate the process or love this part of the hobby.

 

[C&C]

I can't offer any advice on whether to do this or not - that's already been covered by people with far more experience than I have.

The only tip I'd offer is regarding cleaning the playfield to remove the ball tracks. From reading the excellent thread on one of the shop logs of an old EM machine, the guy doing it mentioned cleaning the playfield with a "magic eraser" (which I'd never heard of). I had a couple of stubborn ball marks on TNA which gentle use of Novus 2 didn't touch, and I wasn't going to use Novus 3 as it's very abrasive. I found some Magic Eraser sponge, and this cleaned it up perfectly with gentle rubbing and a little bit of Isopropyl Alcohol. The playfield is now perfectly clean, and it didn't cause any damage.

Anyway, it appears that there are several types of Magic Eraser, but the one I used, based on decent reviews was this one, available from Amazon. You might want to try it first just with water rather than the IPA - I only used the IPA as I find it cleans less stubborn ball tracks very well with just a cloth.

Whatever you decide on the re-furb, best of luck to you - I'm sure it will be interesting/fun/challenging, but very rewarding if you can get it to a condition you are happy with.


Edit - link to the IPA I used. Do try it with just water first though, and if using IPA, I'd test it on a hidden area first just to make sure it doesn't cause any damage, as I don't know if the playfield material/covering on your FT is different to that used on older EM machines, or the more modern pin I used it on. IPA is quite useful in any case for general cleaning as it removes dirt/grease pretty effectively.

Further edit - the shop log I referred to was this one where @ronsplooter completely transformed a Gottlieb Lucky Strike to an amazing condition. I was lucky enough to play it at Pinfest last year, and it looked like it was brand new!

 

[VeeMonroe]

I would say yes you are crazy, but if it’s an itch you have to scratch then go for it.

My dad was a bit of an engineering genius hobbyist. He designed and built my parents’ house, made the fitted units in the spare bedroom, and assembled a grandmother clock from a kit. When he retired from the sea, he built a crucible furnace to forge miniature jet engines.

So, maybe I’ve got something to prove…

You will need plenty of space, once you start taking stuff out of the cabinet, it seems to take up all available room

Yeah. I’m a bit worried about that. The back room is effectively an ordinary living room with a sofa and a desk in it…

We have a cellar where we can store spare parts, but no garage. The back room opens out onto the garden so, provided the weather is good, I can paint out there

The question you need to ask am I doing it to make money, if you are then don't, as you won't

If your doing it like I was to have a fully functional pain free machine in the case of STTNG or want it as NIB internally as possible LOTT then it's worth doing.

No intention to make money on it. I want it to stop spawning annoying minor faults and, also, to be as close to NIB as possible. I can’t see myself selling it - it’s literally the first full-sized pin I ever played, so I’ve got an emotional connection to it.

Time - sounds like you've already been thinking about that but it can take a long time to restore a pin if you're only able to spend the odd hour here and there on it. What can start out as enjoyable when you take the game apart could turn into a long drawn out slog especially when all you're doing is cleaning parts and you end up not having the game available for you to play for a while.

Huge thanks for the lengthy and comprehensive reply. It’s just the ticket I didn’t consider taking FT out of action until we had/were about to get two other pins - and I will miss it while it’s being restored.

• Tools - To do the best/proper job then you're going to need a lot of tools that you may or may not already have. Factor in the cost of buying the right tools (if you don't have them) when you're figuring out your budget. As someone relatively new to the hobby and working on pins I'm assuming you won't have a large set of tools so things like a tumbler, DA sander, nut drivers, spanners, soldering gear (and maybe desoldering) might all need buying.

I’ve bought soldering gear and a Black & Decker Workmate already for doing the Fish Tales topper. I‘ve also got a few things (like a mouse sander) from working on doors in our house, and some wrenches/miniature screw drivers from doing earlier repairs on FT.

I don’t have a tumbler, however. Is that for cleaning parts?

At a high level I'd think about the work as follows and you can then decide what you want/are comfortable doing and what you might need to pay someone to do:

• Cabinet - mainly cosmetic so things like woodworking, lots of sanding/filling and decal application. As an example, do you care about the warning text on the rear of the backbox? If you do then you're most likely going to have to get someone to do this for you as buying/making the proper silk screens isn't really worth it unless you do a lot of games.

Do I need the warning text on the back box?

• Playfield - If you're restoring your original then what are you're painting skills like. If buying new and replacing then obviously a lot simpler, just transferring everything across.

It would be a ‘buy new’ job.

However, I have pictures I’ve painted up in the house, so painting skills are pretty good. I also miniature/model paint.

• Mechanics - Lots of cleaning and polishing mixed with some replacing broken parts. Factor in the time to tweak and fiddle with things at the end to get it playing as you want.
• Electronics - The main two things here are issue diagnosis and soldering skills. Are you comfortable working on boards and happy to spend time tracking down issues. This is another area where you can send them out but again just factor it into your budget.

Both my husband and I have AS/A levels in electronics. Sadly, I’ve forgotten most of my electronics skills. We’ve both been tracking down mechanical issues on the FT since we bought it (as several have popped up).

I love working on games as much as I do playing them and have done a fair few over the years but even then I get p*ssed off working on them. The biggest bit of advice I'd say is if it starts to get frustrating or annoying then walk away and come back fresh the next day/time. I've saved myself breaking something so many times by just stepping back and taking a deep breath when a game is winding me up

I’ve programmed computers both as an amateur and semi-professionally… so, intense frustration is not alien to me.

Mostly, I’m worried I turn my working multi-thousand-pound pinball machine into a massive mess… I had been intending my first restore to be a ‘barn find’ EM - so, it didn’t matter if I messed it up! But, I haven’t seen an EM that interests me (I’m looking for a Lucky Hands/Jack‘s Open/El Dorado) and we don’t currently have the space.

 

[Marvello]

My one word answer to your question is 'yes'. *As in yes, you would be crazy to attempt it.

It doesn't have to be super mint, you can always just start with the simple things and gradually build up to the more complicated ones as time/money/space allows.

 

[Monkeyboypaul]

I'll go against the grain and say 'no - don't bother'.

Why do i say this?

I spend nearly 2 years restoring a similar condition AFM from playable to mint (link).... But:

• it took me about 2-3yrs - i didn't have enough free time (still don't) and i'd never attempted it before.
• it got in the way of life, the space allocated was in the way - for all of us.
• I meant less time with my kids, or less time enjoying the incredibly rare moments without my kids!
• I couldn't play it while it was in pieces - very important.
• it cost a lot of money.
• buying parts was awkward and at times expensive, postage, fees, etc.
• Where do you draw the line of 'super mint'? be careful not to go too far, for little gain.
• In the end i sold without playing it as it wasn't fun anymore, i was sick of it. (link)

My personal lessons learnt are:

• Buy games in a condition you'd be happy with in the 1st place, or as close as possible.
• Improve/pimp them to your liking, within your comfort zone - LEDs, stainless ramp flaps, mods, use silicone instead of rubber, etc.
• Enjoy your games, don't covet them.
• Keep machine downtime to a minimum wherever possible.
• Spend time playing it with your kids, they won't be kids for that long, so cherish it. They could end up resenting Pinball if you're too obsessed with the restore work.
• Let the people who have the time, money, experience, and space do this instead.
• Don't buy a Mirco playfield.
• Don't buy from Pinball Centre.
• Learnt a lot from doing it, but i won't do it again.

My advice would be:

• If you can afford a GZ Prem; buy or pay for a super mint FT restoration.
• Get someone who knows what they're doing to do it all for you, quickly and properly.
• Play your existing machine until you find one then sell it to someone else to enjoy.

But ultimately it's your machine/money/time/life - make the choice you feel is right for you and your family.

Written in haste as i'm now off to collect the kids and take them swimming!

Paul.

 

[VeeMonroe]

I'll go against the grain and say 'no - don't bother'.

Why do i say this?

I spend nearly 2 years restoring a similar condition AFM from playable to mint (link).... But:

• it took me about 2-3yrs - i didn't have enough free time (still don't) and i'd never attempted it before.
• it got in the way of life, the space allocated was in the way - for all of us.
• I meant less time with my kids, or less time enjoying the incredibly rare moments without my kids!
• I couldn't play it while it was in pieces - very important.
• it cost a lot of money.
• buying parts was awkward and at times expensive, postage, fees, etc.
• Where do you draw the line of 'super mint'? be careful not to go too far, for little gain.
• In the end i sold without playing it as it wasn't fun anymore, i was sick of it. (link)

My personal lessons learnt are:

• Buy games in a condition you'd be happy with in the 1st place, or as close as possible.
• Improve/pimp them to your liking, within your comfort zone - LEDs, stainless ramp flaps, mods, use silicone instead of rubber, etc.
• Enjoy your games, don't covet them.
• Keep machine downtime to a minimum wherever possible.
• Spend time playing it with your kids, they won't be kids for that long, so cherish it. They could end up resenting Pinball if you're too obsessed with the restore work.
• Let the people who have the time, money, experience, and space do this instead.
• Don't buy a Mirco playfield.
• Don't buy from Pinball Centre.
• Learnt a lot from doing it, but i won't do it again.

My advice would be:

• If you can afford a GZ Prem; buy or pay for a super mint FT restoration.
• Get someone who knows what they're doing to do it all for you, quickly and properly.
• Play your existing machine until you find one then sell it to someone else to enjoy.

But ultimately it's your machine/money/time/life - make the choice you feel is right for you and your family.

Written in haste as i'm now off to collect the kids and take them swimming!

Paul.

I’ve looked at your beautiful AFM and read the six pages cataloguing your epic restoration and, I have to say, if I had a FT in two years time that looked half as good, I would be as pleased as punch. It is a spectacular piece of restoration work.

I must admit to having an unhealthy interest in sourcing obscure parts. I used to spend lots of time tracking down promo cards for board games, including organising imports and doing international trades. It’s a bit of a bloodhound instinct.

Kids-wise, my oldest boy is currently a year or so too young to participate in a restoration, which makes me wonder if I should delay it. However, he is a mini engineer-in-training who designed and built a ladder at nursery, with limited help - literally he asked for help tying a couple of knots. He’s been keen to help out on our existing projects, but is a little too young to be genuinely helpful - at one point, he threw a literal spanner in the works (!) (It took us two hours to find and remove the spanner from inside the playfield!!). So, my dearest hope is that a restoration gives me *more* time with my kids… (or, at least, my eldest). If my dad was still alive, I’m sure my older boy would have followed him around his workshop but, as he’s dead, he can only learn about mechanical skills from me.

 

[kev a]

I think Pauls post makes a lot of sense.

If the end goal is having a nice shiny game there are much easier and more cost effective ways.

If the goal is to learn new skills and enjoy the steps then a restore is great, the shiny game at the end end is more of a by-product.

If you have a kid thats intrested in engineering theres plenty of chances for taking apart and cleaning smaller mechs and stuff.

 

[cmrl9]

I was typing on my mobile earlier...

From reading the replies a couple of things:

1) I've personally found Fuses blowing on a williams normally means something either wrong with the fliptronics board, power driver board, coils diodes and or all of the previous.

Start with getting the boards checked, it will save you alot of endless hassle working out if its something you've done or the boards. @myPinballs I believe does this or pinball heaven. Once checked don't turn on until you have replaced the diodes on the coils or the coils fully and tripple check the banding on the diodes is correct otherwise you will damage the boards.

2) A tumbler is a device that you place the metal in and using walnut (not the food) gently spins the metal and over several days makes it shiny. Its good for smaller parts. You do however need a place to have it on and away from little people. Hence why I could'nt use one. I found a drimmel with autosol polish and drimmel polishing kit works great. I can take you through the bits needed if you want, took me a bit of mucking around to get the best results. Based upon your interests im guessing you might already own a drimmel

3) Try and buy all the parts you think you need at once, Marco in the US, are pretty much one of the only places you can get some parts. However the more custom parts will be smewhere else If you order directly they deal with all the customs and shipping at checkout, its good for lots of bits, no good for a couple get these in the UK

Marco website for fishtails bits here:

https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/252?VIEW_SIZE=60&view=card&sortOrder=SortProductField:totalTimesViewed

When looking to order look in the manual, focus on the rebuild kits for the flippers, coils, upkickers and optos. If one of the upkickers use fishpaper to cover the optos get it, its dirt cheap but only from marco. I bought spare and would have given you mine but I gave it to the new STTNG owner. It prevents some sort of interferance with two close parts. (i might be wrong )

Buying as much at once via marco you can utilise paypal's interest free over 4 months, as it will be over £100 saves the big hit.

4) expect it to take between 150 to 200 hours to do, thats about the amount it took me on each of my machines.

5) where possible don't take everything a part, for exmple take the upkicker apart, rebuild and put back. If you get carried away and start stripping everything putting it back is a total head scratcher.

6) pick up the following from pinball heaven:

IDC tool, you will need it

Molex IDC tool (0.1") - Pinball Heaven

Molex IDC tool – fantastic! Smaller 0.1″ pitch. Used on WPC switch inputs and older Bally games etc.

www.pinball.co.uk

Solider good quality

Solder - Pinball Heaven

SOLDER, 60/40 EN29453 362 1.0MM 250G; Material composition:60% Tin, 40% Lead Alloy; Flux type:362; Temperature, melting:180°C; Diameter, wire:1.0mm; Length, reel:44m; SWG number:17; Standard:EN29453 and EN29454; Temperature, bit:308°C; Weight:250g

www.pinball.co.uk

Long phillips to get the screws out of some of the ramps

Long phillips screwdriver - Pinball Heaven

Long screwdriver, excellent, saves you taking lumps out of your hands all the time! STLY MGNM S/DRVER 1PT POZI L/RCH 67-479; Driver type:1; Length, blade:250mm; Length, blade:10″,; Tip Size:1

www.pinball.co.uk

Wirecutters, good quality ones, they make stripping the wrie a pleasure

Wire strippers - Pinball Heaven

IDEAL STRIPMASTER LITE ; Length: 140mm; Product description: WIRE STRIPPER 16 TO 22; Stripping Capacity: 15mm; Stripping Capacity: 16AWG; Weight: 160g; Width, external: 100mm

www.pinball.co.uk

From other places:

Molex pin extractor tool, this is not the correct one, not sure of the pin size it needs,

Tweezer set

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B08F2LQVKQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

THis thing

Vorel 79398 Welding Accessories Set of 6 : Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools

Free delivery and returns on all eligible orders. Shop Vorel 79398 Welding Accessories Set of 6.

www.amazon.co.uk

Good quality flux

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B008ZIV85A/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

and finally a voltage metre, I bought mine from pinball heaven

Meter, Autoranging - Pinball Heaven

Excellent little starter meter. Autoranging funtion.

www.pinball.co.uk

11-03-0002 | Molex Crimp Extraction Tool, HANDTOOL Series, Crimp Contact, Contact size 24 → 18AWG | RS

uk.rs-online.com

15 watt soldering iron for the optos and smaller parts

45 / 50 watt soldering iron for the coils

7) to polish the plastics and get rid of light scratches, works on the playfield as well, be carefull with using 3.

Novus plastic polish mini set - 1, 2, 3 (2oz ea) - Pinball Heaven

novus plastic polish is an excellent scratch remover for acrylic plastics and high gloss plastics.

www.pinball.co.uk

Good luck

 

[Rob zombie]

If you've bought a pinball machine then yes, you're already crazy. Now it's just a matter of masking it from the authorities before you inevitably get sectioned under the mental health act. Good luck.

 

[DRD]

I have shopped a few games, including Fish Tales, which is my most played table. FT is an early, simple WPC title that is relatively easy to work on.

I merged 2 nice FT into one really nice one. FT is much easier to mess around with than Scared Stiff or TZ for example.

FT was a very successful title in terms of production numbers. It is neither fashionable nor expensive so do consider whether you just bide your time and buy a nice one from someone else who has done all the work. You will find examples that have received real love, but the owners then sell in order to "upgrade".

I would advise that you start small. Think about what improvements could make the biggest difference. You don't need to do everything at once. Looking at your game I would think..

1. Fix electronically
2. Sort, polish and rebuild mechs, especially ball trough, flippers, slings, pops as these make the most difference
3. Topper
4. Faded cab

You can do the above in stages without going all in and creating a possible nightmare for yourself.

I have replaced cab artwork myself (a huge job requiring many tools) and I have also taken games down South for Matty Adams to sort for me. There is no shame in undertaking some jobs yourself and getting more experienced guys to do others.

 

[PinIB]

I would do a super mint restoration but not at the first attempt. A playfield change on your first go could put you off for life.

I bought a neglected STTNG - not my first pinball but the first one I truly had to sort out a lot of things. I had it in my head that I would do the cabinet/cosmetics first but luckily for me I got embroiled in working out the electronics and getting it playing like new.

By the time I had it playing like new - people just played it. The cabinet still hasn’t been done and won’t get done because I realised the original decals are all good shape with a bit of patina.

I’d super mint a different machine whilst playing the a*** off the Fish Tales.

All of the advice in the other posts is good. Restoration is a learning experience and involves a lot of swearing - especially when you have as many parts as a pinball that are all reliant on each other for the machine to work properly.

 

[Dave Bishop]

I would get @CHRIS B PINBALLS to give you a quote on doing the work, then look at wether that price is worth it. Onside ring the time it would take you, and the impact it would have at home.

 

[VeeMonroe]

I would get @CHRIS B PINBALLS to give you a quote on doing the work, then look at wether that price is worth it. Onside ring the time it would take you, and the impact it would have at home.

I’m guessing about £6k…

Thing is, I want to learn how to do what @CHRIS B PINBALLS (and others) do - I don’t want to pay someone else to do it!

 

[Dave Bishop]

I wouldn’t say it was that much as you already have the base game

 

[PinIB]

Thing is, I want to learn how to do what @CHRIS B PINBALLS (and others) do - I don’t want to pay someone else to do it!

When you start you won’t stop. I did better and better refurbs (BSD and SW DE) before planning a super mint for Whirlwind - I’m already £1000 in just with new playfield and backglass and I haven’t lifted a finger yet other than remove the batteries.

 

[Dave Bishop]

Exactly- depends on how anal you want to go.
And how much you want to spend.

You could invest in a tumbler, which is £ + time, or buy the screws/nuts/etc new.

Or sit there for a few hours and hand polish metal work to a mirror finish.. or take them to a platers and get them done..

There are a lot of people who have started the refurbs in spare time and the games are still sitting in bits 1-2 yrs later.

Not to mention- buying parts, waiting for them to come, then maybe forgetting something and ordering again.. Postage costs build up too!

 

[Dave Bishop]

I did a AFM restore with Manny, AFMis quite a simple game under the Playfield, took us 4 days at 12 hrs each day. (Not including the cabinet)

My AFM that I bought I Spent a few days on polishing everything up- very time consuming.

 

[M4carp]

I did a AFM restore with Manny, AFMis quite a simple game under the Playfield, took us 4 days at 12 hrs each day. (Not including the cabinet)

My AFM that I bought I Spent a few days on polishing everything up- very time consuming.

Nice bloke Manny, had his issues but can’t knock him.
Did these 3 cabs, colour coded inside and super mint

 

[VeeMonroe]

Exactly- depends on how anal you want to go.
And how much you want to spend.

You could invest in a tumbler, which is £ + time, or buy the screws/nuts/etc new.

Or sit there for a few hours and hand polish metal work to a mirror finish.. or take them to a platers and get them done..

There are a lot of people who have started the refurbs in spare time and the games are still sitting in bits 1-2 yrs later.

Not to mention- buying parts, waiting for them to come, then maybe forgetting something and ordering again.. Postage costs build up too!

I’m not looking to have it look super-amazing under the hood. I was just hoping to modernise it a bit more (i.e. lighted speaker panel, PinSound, repro topper, etc.), redo the cab, and do a full inspection of every assembly and board to prevent the ’fault-spawning’. It feels like we fix one fault and, a month later, another materialises - like there’s decades of deferred maintenance. I also don’t have an intuitive mental model of how everything is connected up and that makes it super-frustrating when I have to ask for help all the time.

Most of the boards in the back box are Rottendog, not original, so I’m (potentially naively) relatively confident about those. However, the underside of the playfield looks like it hasn’t been lifted since 1992, and we’ve found at least two bodge jobs so far - each of which was causing a fault. Also, the playfield lift mechanism needs replacing - it doesn’t reliably stay up.

Having realised I’d have to remove the playfield to decal the cab (and powder coat the armour), I figured I may as well systematically check the assemblies for bodges/faults/end-of-life (and remove any rust) at the same time. Then, I started wondering if I should swap over the playfield as well because I’m convinced the worn stickers/tiny chips around the tackle box/fish on the lower playfield unpredictably affect the ball path, and because all the undersides of the inserts are edged with weird white gunk…

 

[AlanJ]

I'd bide your time, don't rush into it, nothing wrong with fixing issues as & when they crop up and learning one problem and solution at a time. You can redo the cab, just by taking everything out (a big enough task anyway, but) a far easier job than also doing a full pf strip or swap. (You could do that as a separate task, before or after).