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Advice on Converting an Outbuilding

JustLikeMe

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We're hoping to exchange and complete on a new home early in the New Year, and it just so happens to have an outbuilding connected to the house via a car port that I'll need to convert into a games room pretty much immediately due to lack of space for pins in the house itself. It'll be worth it as I'll have more space for pins than I ever thought possible, but I clearly need to get the conversion done properly and I'm honestly a bit out of my depth.

The current owners have used the building as a workshop, so the good news is that it already has three phase electricity, and a cat 6 cable runs from the main house into the workshop so I can set up a WiFi access point / extend the mesh network I plan on setting up in the house. The roof was replaced within the last couple of years so that's in good condition too, and It's also connected to both hot and cold water thanks to a small WC which I plan on removing. So, utilities are pretty much sorted.

The bad news is that the interior is entirely unfinished, the floor is a mess and very uneven, there's no insulation, the windows are single glazed, there are gaps around the doors etc. Essentially, it's in good structural shape, but needs a full internal conversion.

For context, here's the floorplan. The partition wall between the workshop and store isn't structural - it's made of wood and was put up by the current owners and I'll be tearing that down. I'll be using the door on the right for access 99% of the time, so plan on blocking the other door on the left with a machine and moving it when needed.

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Here are some photos:

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I've never undertaken anything like this before, so I was hoping for some pointers / advice from anyone who has. My plan is to have an entirely open plan room for pins, potentially with a small bar area with fridges and a sink located in the bottom right hand corner of the floorplan where the WC currently is due to the existing water supply. Struggling to decide on that one as it would take up the space of two or three machines.

I'm going to get a few rated local construction companies that specialise in conversions and extensions around to have a look / provide a quote, but I'm assuming I'll need to give them some idea re what I'd like. This is what I'm currently thinking but I'm very much open to better suggestions.

- Full insulation throughout - ceiling, walls and floor. I'm guessing this is probably the most important part so want to make sure I get this bit right, but have no idea what I'm actually asking for.
- Floor levelled - I'm thinking concrete?
- Flooring installed, wood effect vinyl or similar. Definitely don't want carpet.
- All walls including ceiling plastered and painted.
- Sanding / darker staining of the wooden support beams that will be left visible after plastering.
- Windows replaced with triple glazing.
- Doors replaced / properly fitted.

There are a few things I'm not sure about though..

- Heating and cooling. I definitely want an AC unit for the summer months, but not sure if I should rely upon this for heating in the winter too, or look into other alternatives. Should I consider underfloor heating or radiators? The building will just be for pins, so will only need to be heated when I'm actually using it in winter assuming the insulation is good enough to keep the pins in good shape without heating the rest of the time.

- Lighting. As it's going to be a pin room I don't want any hanging or mounted lights that could cause reflections on glass, but I'm not sure what would be better - uplighters on the walls behind the pins or LED strips in a channel at the point the walls meet the ceiling. Or any other options?

- Electric circuits. I know nothing about this and have no idea what I need.

- Electrical sockets - I want to keep things looking clean when the pins are in, so I want sockets installed at a height where the back of the cab will block them from view, but having a single or double socket installed at every pin spot seems a bit excessive if I'm able to fit 16 -18 in there. Would I be better of looking at one double socket between every two machines?

- Speakers. I'm leaning towards wireless speakers mounted on some of the wooden beams, with plug sockets installed at the same height so that power cables can be run along the beams meaning I can upgrade / change them in the future unless there is an argument for hiding speakers in the ceiling?

I also have no idea how long a project like this would take once work actually starts, nor do I have any idea of the ballpark costs I'll be looking at, so any thoughts on timelines / costs would be very much appreciated.

Is there anything I'm missing or overlooking here, or anything I have totally wrong? I'm open to pretty much any and all suggestions as I'm basically guessing what I need at this point.
 
Last edited:
Here's mine I just did.


Insulated to building regs standards (and registered with them).

I installed mechanical air ventilation via an air sourced heat pump, using a ceiling cassette as I didn't want wall space stopping pins or vids going up the side with a wall unit.

I used smart system *everything*.
 
Electric sockets: I did twin socket for two machines.

Circuit: I had an electrician stick a 62A feed off the main supply

Speakers: Using wireless Sonos stuff

Lights: I am installing RGBIC LED strip lights, some neon signs, and RGB LED changing bulbs.
 
Here's mine I just did.


Insulated to building regs standards (and registered with them).

I installed mechanical air ventilation via an air sourced heat pump, using a ceiling cassette as I didn't want wall space stopping pins or vids going up the side with a wall unit.

I used smart system *everything*.

Thanks for this, very useful. I was planning on keeping the cathedral style roof space for aesthetic reasons - do you think I'd be better of installing a flat ceiling for the sake of a ceiling cassette? I was planning on installing a wall unit positioned in red on the image below, crudely drawn black boxes are pins:

1640895862815.png

Good shout on the mains wired smoke alarm, hadn't considered that. I'm going to be going smart everything in the house so that makes sense.
 
As long as you insulate the roof you'll be fine if you keep it pitched. You can have a ceiling cassette just floating in the space like a restaurant or retail shop if you prefer them to a wall unit. Just ensure the additional space is included in capacity planning for an air conditioning unit. I used www.bark.com to get loads of installers to come and quote. I went with Daikin as they appear to make the best looking units and have fancy WiFi integrated units as well as very sleek looking thermostat units called Madoka controllers.

Only reason I went flat is the benefit of loft space for maximum hoarding ability.
 
get a drawing board, write down clearly what you want with sketches - then my advice get a few builders in to quote for it. Bark is a good site for this. Honestly nobody on this site will give you the right answer - because understanding the details requires close inspection of the building itself. One thing I would go for is ensuring the floor is SOLID, you've got a wide door entrance and if you can step free in and out.

The key thing is to get the building "made good" - The roof I'd say needs redoing but Id keep it pitched also. As Alpha says getting it insulated to building regs is crucial and my shed has this and its smart all over also.

I'd get a a separate consumer unit installed for that area with RCBO, 60Amps will be plenty - a wall unit will be fine for this size of room, personally I wouldn't touch daiken with a ten foot barge pole and have ripped them out of more places than I can remember but YMMV (sorry alpha!) , this split system will do heat and cooling and is super cheap to run. I'd recommend Mitsubishi or Fujitsu and get the wifi module for both. Mitsubishi is pretty strong on this.

Electrics you can look at many of the threads but get double sockets for pinballs at waist level as it means less getting up and down! for lights / neons / trinkets put the power for them near where you plan to put them. Too often see a neon with a ugly power cable running down the side of the wall.

Run network cable (cat 5 is fine) to a place for a Wifi AP back to your broadband. also consider if you want AV/TV plan for that with ethernet and power also and run power and network cable for outdoor lights and CCTV plus if you have a garden maybe an outdoor AP.

I went for electric culina track lighting with wifi controllable GU10's https://www.amazon.co.uk/YEELIGHT-C...ired/dp/B09G2D8KCN?ref_=ast_sto_dp&th=1&psc=1. place that above the games but pointing to light up the wall/ceiling so you get ambient light not direct light. You can move them around have pendants if you want and the wifi lighting allows you to create zones, so where my Stranger things is the light comes on dimmer for that game.

Wifi Yeelights are compatible with my Razer laptop so when I'm playing games the lights in the shed change, quite cool.

If you are in the woking area feel free to pop over and I'll take you through it all.
 
As long as you insulate the roof you'll be fine if you keep it pitched. You can have a ceiling cassette just floating in the space like a restaurant or retail shop if you prefer them to a wall unit. Just ensure the additional space is included in capacity planning for an air conditioning unit. I used www.bark.com to get loads of installers to come and quote. I went with Daikin as they appear to make the best looking units and have fancy WiFi integrated units as well as very sleek looking thermostat units called Madoka controllers.

Only reason I went flat is the benefit of loft space for maximum hoarding ability.

Good point about the extra space for the capacity of the air con unit, guess I better get out the calculator. I’m half tempted to install a small balcony / mezzanine type space with a ladder for extra hoarding space but worried it will look a bit ****e.
 
A room that size you need a 5Kw unit tops. Maybe 7.5 if you like it Antartica. actually 5Kw is plenty.
 
get a drawing board, write down clearly what you want with sketches - then my advice get a few builders in to quote for it. Bark is a good site for this. Honestly nobody on this site will give you the right answer - because understanding the details requires close inspection of the building itself. One thing I would go for is ensuring the floor is SOLID, you've got a wide door entrance and if you can step free in and out.

The key thing is to get the building "made good" - The roof I'd say needs redoing but Id keep it pitched also. As Alpha says getting it insulated to building regs is crucial and my shed has this and its smart all over also.

I'd get a a separate consumer unit installed for that area with RCBO, 60Amps will be plenty - a wall unit will be fine for this size of room, personally I wouldn't touch daiken with a ten foot barge pole and have ripped them out of more places than I can remember but YMMV (sorry alpha!) , this split system will do heat and cooling and is super cheap to run. I'd recommend Mitsubishi or Fujitsu and get the wifi module for both. Mitsubishi is pretty strong on this.

Electrics you can look at many of the threads but get double sockets for pinballs at waist level as it means less getting up and down! for lights / neons / trinkets put the power for them near where you plan to put them. Too often see a neon with a ugly power cable running down the side of the wall.

Run network cable (cat 5 is fine) to a place for a Wifi AP back to your broadband. also consider if you want AV/TV plan for that with ethernet and power also and run power and network cable for outdoor lights and CCTV plus if you have a garden maybe an outdoor AP.

I went for electric culina track lighting with wifi controllable GU10's https://www.amazon.co.uk/YEELIGHT-C...ired/dp/B09G2D8KCN?ref_=ast_sto_dp&th=1&psc=1. place that above the games but pointing to light up the wall/ceiling so you get ambient light not direct light. You can move them around have pendants if you want and the wifi lighting allows you to create zones, so where my Stranger things is the light comes on dimmer for that game.

Wifi Yeelights are compatible with my Razer laptop so when I'm playing games the lights in the shed change, quite cool.

If you are in the woking area feel free to pop over and I'll take you through it all.

Cheers Neil, a lot to consider there. Will look into all you’ve suggested and may well take you up on the kind offer as Woking is around half way between where we currently are and where we’re moving to. There’s already a cat 6 running to the building from the house and I’m planning on installing a switch where it terminates to run wire to all TV / AV and external CCTV - would you recommend an AP over a continuation of the mesh network inside the house? The garden is on the other side of the house to the outbuilding so will need to work out another solution there unfortunately.

If you're thinking about a bar, leaving the loo might be an idea - depends how far the next nearest is.

Luckily the next nearest is only around ten steps across the car port and a couple of steps into the house via the utility room. If not for the proximity I’d definitely consider keeping it, but with it gone I can fit a couple more machines in…
 
I’d definitely put a dedicated AP not meshed into the room And use Ethernet to connect it in.
 
If you have ethernet connecting it you don't need the mesh and all you are doing is wasting bandwidth - TP-link or Asus are ok.
 
A really nice project to get your teeth into. You will get umpteen opinions. Pick and choose the ones you like.

An inverter aircon will do your heating and cooling with ease. Underfloor is unnecessary imho.

Personally, I would board the roof area and install a proper ceiling. That roof void is not particularly attractive, I am not sure it would ever look "right". It will attract dirt, cobwebs etc. Plus, it will cost more to heat as an open space. If you decide on an open roof, you will need new roof trusses designed for the purpose- these look good, but cost more to heat. I went for a regular ceiling in my new build.

You need to understand how solid the floor is. If you are lucky it will not require a new one. If it is solid - smooth it off a bit, to stop sharp bits damaging a membrane. Put thick plastic membrane down. Three inches of celotex, then flow screed it. Flow screed is fantastic. It self levels and should be within 5mm or less tolerance across a floor that size. But that means you will lose quite a lot of height - so make sure you have this to lose.

Insulating floors sounds nice, I have done it. But it is far less effective than the insulation going into the walls and ceiling.

When you get it wired, I would suggest a separate fuse board in an accessible spot in your pinshed. Have all rcbo protection, it saves you a lot of aggro. Have split ring mains so you might have a few separate banks of sockets that you can isolate at the board. Ie ring 1 - always on for non pinball suff like router, extenders, floor lamps. Ring 2 - 5 pins. Ring 3 - 5 pins. This way you can isolate your pins very easily - I have had all manner of hassles with old 70s pinballs consuming power at night and triggering my breakers elsewhere in the house. Also, if one machine trips your rcbo, it does not take all of your machines down.

I have found that power spikes on incoming supply, or worst of all power coming back up after a cut, or my bloody microwave .... can somehow trigger a rcbo to pop on my main board when all my pinball machines are on at the wall, but off via the under cab switches.

The best bet is an armoured cable from your incoming supply to pinshed protected by fuse only. The fuse prevents too much current down the armoured cable. Armoured means mice can't eat it so you don't need a rcbo or earth leakage trip on it. Fuse only means that a spike in pinshed does not take down a breaker on your main incoming supply board. This is my next move for my pinshed
 
Wow will be a great games room, if it was me I’d knock through into that storage room to make it as big as possible = more pins!
 
It looks like solid wall construction? I'd get a decent builder round and look at what can be done to get it insulated properly - both the roof and the walls.
 
A really nice project to get your teeth into. You will get umpteen opinions. Pick and choose the ones you like.

An inverter aircon will do your heating and cooling with ease. Underfloor is unnecessary imho.

Personally, I would board the roof area and install a proper ceiling. That roof void is not particularly attractive, I am not sure it would ever look "right". It will attract dirt, cobwebs etc. Plus, it will cost more to heat as an open space. If you decide on an open roof, you will need new roof trusses designed for the purpose- these look good, but cost more to heat. I went for a regular ceiling in my new build.

You need to understand how solid the floor is. If you are lucky it will not require a new one. If it is solid - smooth it off a bit, to stop sharp bits damaging a membrane. Put thick plastic membrane down. Three inches of celotex, then flow screed it. Flow screed is fantastic. It self levels and should be within 5mm or less tolerance across a floor that size. But that means you will lose quite a lot of height - so make sure you have this to lose.

Insulating floors sounds nice, I have done it. But it is far less effective than the insulation going into the walls and ceiling.

When you get it wired, I would suggest a separate fuse board in an accessible spot in your pinshed. Have all rcbo protection, it saves you a lot of aggro. Have split ring mains so you might have a few separate banks of sockets that you can isolate at the board. Ie ring 1 - always on for non pinball suff like router, extenders, floor lamps. Ring 2 - 5 pins. Ring 3 - 5 pins. This way you can isolate your pins very easily - I have had all manner of hassles with old 70s pinballs consuming power at night and triggering my breakers elsewhere in the house. Also, if one machine trips your rcbo, it does not take all of your machines down.

I have found that power spikes on incoming supply, or worst of all power coming back up after a cut, or my bloody microwave .... can somehow trigger a rcbo to pop on my main board when all my pinball machines are on at the wall, but off via the under cab switches.

The best bet is an armoured cable from your incoming supply to pinshed protected by fuse only. The fuse prevents too much current down the armoured cable. Armoured means mice can't eat it so you don't need a rcbo or earth leakage trip on it. Fuse only means that a spike in pinshed does not take down a breaker on your main incoming supply board. This is my next move for my pinshed

Thanks for the very thorough response, really appreciate it. I like the high pitched ceiling but I do see the argument for boarding and installing a flat ceiling. If I’m losing considerable height on the floor though I’ll need to get in there with a tape measure to make sure it won’t feel too claustrophobic without the extra space above.

Great points on the electrics. Split rings was what I was thinking of, but didn’t know the name for. I’ll certainly bear all this in mind.

Wow will be a great games room, if it was me I’d knock through into that storage room to make it as big as possible = more pins!

Thanks, I couldn’t believe it when we saw the space when viewing the house the first time. My wife instantly knew what I was thinking.

Definitely knocking through into the storage room, that partition wall was put up by the current owners and is just a wooden barrier. I’m also removing the toilet but may replace with a small bar.

Based on fag packet maths, depending on how much space I lose to insulation etc I should be able to fit 18-20 machines in without a bar. If I install a bar I’d lose room for 2-3 machines but my wife may actually come in occasionally!

Either way it’s a big upgrade from my current room which can only fit five games. I’ll finally be able to bring games I have stored at a friends place home and have room to expand the collection.

It looks like solid wall construction? I'd get a decent builder round and look at what can be done to get it insulated properly - both the roof and the walls.

Thanks Alan - solid wall construction yes. The survey I had done said it was in good overall condition with a few bits that need attention so I’ll be getting that done as well as proper insulation.
 
When considering height, I think that Addams Family (216cm ?) and Big Guns were the benchmarks- though others may know of taĺler games.

If you look at my pinshed build you can see how I did my concrete raft, celotex insulation, flowscreed floor.

The commercial carpet tiles and 7mm or so rubber ecotiles (what I have) seem good bets for flooring
 
I would concur with much of the advice you've already received.

My 2p... I had some similar decisions when I built my pincave, I originally considered a vaulted type ceiling but fairly quickly dismissed it, on the grounds of, additional volume to heat, improved insulation from having a suspended flat ceiling in the room, and with the trussed type roof it gave me a lot of storage space up there. Then I came to the heating, it was always going to be a split type air conditioning unit and originally looked at wall mounted units for the internal unit, I then came the the conclusion in a 10M long room I could end up with hot/cold spots, so then looked at ceiling cassettes and then dismissed them as they tend to be a bit 'blowy' and went for a ducted system, the beauty is the internal unit is in the roof space, and I have 3 x 200mm diameter ducts at one end of the building sucking out the 'cold' air and 3 x 200mm ducts at the opposite blowing in the 'hot' air, the beauty is there are zero noticeable draft and is totally silent and looks good to the eye. Other beauty of the split AC unit is when you turn on a good few machines in a well insulated room it get's pretty hot in there fairly quickly, so the system I used takes care of it heating/cooling as required all automatically.

I went for one double socket for two machines, that said all the machines are on smart sockets and one smart socket is powering two pins. Still need quite a few sockets. Then there's the electricity bill!!! My total usage is 11,000KWh/year, but mainly due to a desiccant type dehumidifier running 24/7, so about 1/4 of my total usage, think I need to look into that one.

Good luck with your project, please keep us all updated, I really enjoy watching these build threads.

Chris.
 
I would concur with much of the advice you've already received.

My 2p... I had some similar decisions when I built my pincave, I originally considered a vaulted type ceiling but fairly quickly dismissed it, on the grounds of, additional volume to heat, improved insulation from having a suspended flat ceiling in the room, and with the trussed type roof it gave me a lot of storage space up there. Then I came to the heating, it was always going to be a split type air conditioning unit and originally looked at wall mounted units for the internal unit, I then came the the conclusion in a 10M long room I could end up with hot/cold spots, so then looked at ceiling cassettes and then dismissed them as they tend to be a bit 'blowy' and went for a ducted system, the beauty is the internal unit is in the roof space, and I have 3 x 200mm diameter ducts at one end of the building sucking out the 'cold' air and 3 x 200mm ducts at the opposite blowing in the 'hot' air, the beauty is there are zero noticeable draft and is totally silent and looks good to the eye. Other beauty of the split AC unit is when you turn on a good few machines in a well insulated room it get's pretty hot in there fairly quickly, so the system I used takes care of it heating/cooling as required all automatically.

I went for one double socket for two machines, that said all the machines are on smart sockets and one smart socket is powering two pins. Still need quite a few sockets. Then there's the electricity bill!!! My total usage is 11,000KWh/year, but mainly due to a desiccant type dehumidifier running 24/7, so about 1/4 of my total usage, think I need to look into that one.

Good luck with your project, please keep us all updated, I really enjoy watching these build threads.

Chris.

Cheers Chris, will definitely consider a flat ceiling after reading so many similar comments. Hadn’t even considered the possibility of a ducted AC system - how did it compare price wise to the other two options?

I’ve actually been meaning to make a post re smart sockets / plugs for a while now. Are there any risks to using the to switch machines on and off as opposed to the power switch? It would be nice to be able to switch everything on via Alexa or phone and have all machines powered on when I walk in.

I also completely forgot to ask about a dehumidifier in my original post, is it likely I’ll need one?

Will make a build thread or continue this one for sure, I’m also a fan of watching these things come together when others post.
 
Cheers Chris, will definitely consider a flat ceiling after reading so many similar comments. Hadn’t even considered the possibility of a ducted AC system - how did it compare price wise to the other two options?

I’ve actually been meaning to make a post re smart sockets / plugs for a while now. Are there any risks to using the to switch machines on and off as opposed to the power switch? It would be nice to be able to switch everything on via Alexa or phone and have all machines powered on when I walk in.

I also completely forgot to ask about a dehumidifier in my original post, is it likely I’ll need one?

Will make a build thread or continue this one for sure, I’m also a fan of watching these things come together when others post.

The ducted system was a little more expensive than a ceiling cassette (same make capacity), but a much nicer solution IMO, whichever way you decide to go Mitsubishi Heavy Industries is THE way to go, a little more expensive but a LOT better. I have 2 MHI systems at my house, can't rate them highly enough.

If your rooms heated and built to a reasonable standard you WON'T need a dehumidifier, mine's in my unheated garage which makes up the front half of my garage/pincave building the rear half of the building being the pincave, desiccant dehumidifiers work to low temperatures compressor type don't, compressor type are fairly efficient, desiccant types are NOT.

Smart sockets are really handy, but you cant turn on too many pin's simultaneously as my finding was the inrush current to each of the pins transformer totals up quite quickly and trips the MCB, I have B curve trips, I could change to C or D but as long as I don't turn on more than about 6 machines simultaneously it's always been fine for me. I have some sit down drivers, the only way to turn them on is at the wall socket so the smart sockets are really good there. Obviously turning off everything simultaneously has no issues and's very handy.

All the best,

Chris.
 
The hardest part is usually finding the free space on these builds, you got that part done already :D rest just needs a little $$$ and you will have a great arcade :)
 
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