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Addams controlled lighting problem

Mfresh

Mfresh

Registered
10 Years
Joined
Oct 7, 2012
Messages
2,276
Location
Marlow on Thames, Bucks
I've just kitted out my TAF with LEDs, and now have an insert lamp problem.

The first three lamps of column six are now permanently on: Left special, Lite Thing Flips, Lite 2 Bear Kicks. Left special certainly shouldn't be on all the time.

Also, the mansion is meant to lite one window, which changes when the pop bumbers are activated. But sometimes one window lites, but sometimes 2 or 3. For example

3million lites by itself
6 million lites by itself
9 million lites by itself
Mamushka lites by itslf
Graveyard to max lites by itself
but with other modes, unwanted lamps also lite
Hit Cousin It lites with 3 million and 6 million
Quick Multiball lites with 6 milion
Lite extra ball lites with 6 million
Festers Tunnel Hunt lites with 9 million and 6 million
Seance lites with Graveyard and 6 million

The R of GRAVE and Lite Advance X also seem permanently lit.

Anyone know what is going?
 
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Are you running a patched ROM with the updated lamp matrix code? If you're not then you need to...
 
In that case you must have a short somewhere or a disconnected diode. Are the affected lamps all in a single column/row?
 
Prety much all in column 6 ot collumn 5. I'll take a closer look at those lamps. I could have shorted them when I was changing bulbs I suppose.
 
Focus around R of GRAVE and Lite Advance X as they seem permanently lit. Probably something as simple as 2 lamp holder legs pushed together or a stray glob of solder.
 
OK, a bit more info here. Doing individual lamp tests, the lamp in column 6 of that row always lites. So if I test Thing Multiball, then Left Special also lites
If I test Extra Ball, Lite Thing Flips always lites.
Row 4 Column 1 lites Row 4 Column 1 and Row 4 Column 6
Why would an extra lamp in column 6 go on for each row?
 
Have you tried putting incandescent back in and seeing if the problem remains?
I tried led in my wh20 inserts and had raft 6, extra ball and a couple of Boulder garden awards permanently lit. I gave up and put incandescent in those lamps and now all good
 
Sounds similar to when I put LEDs in a LOTR, check that the diodes on the lamp holders in column 6 are all the right way round. I found one the wrong way, swapped it and all was fine
 
Just a thought - Turn the machine off and see if there is a short between any Yellow-Brown and Yellow-Blue It sounds like Column 6 is shorted to Column 1, therefore lighting the two at the same time.
 
Does the above hold true for all 8 lamps in column 6? So an individual test of any lamp on the playfield always lights the lamp in column 6 in the same row?

As mentioned here already the most likely fault is a short between Column 6 and Column 1. Also worth checking that all of the diodes are present, installed in the correct direction and test good. In my opinion the chances of a fault with something here is greater than 90%

If you are 100% sure that you don't have a problem with anything on the playfield then the next culprit would be the column 6 driver transistor Q93 being locked on, or at least leaking more current then it should and enough to illuminate an LED where it wasn't noticable with incandescent lamps. Please don't go down this road until you are certain the playfield is sound though!

@Spandangler your problem is probably something along these lines if there is a connection between the lamps you are having trouble with in the matrix. EDIT: Just looked at the WH20 matrix, possibly a leaky TIP102 @ Q85??
 
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Thanks for all the help so far peeps!

Well I have replaced the LEDs in column 6 back to incandescents as Spandangler suggested, and the problem with bulbs in that column has gone away. So this is definately LED related. So it sounds like it may be a leaky Q93
(I don't think I was clear before, it's not just a lamp in Column 1 that lights the same row in column 6, it's a light in ANY column that also lights the the same row in column 6. So I guess that rules out a short.)

I've checked under the playfield for shorts and tested all the diodes I can see in that row and they are fine. (But here's a question: where are the diodes for lamps that are mounted in a lamp board rather than in individual lamp holders?)

So with incandescents there's no problem, but with LEDs Column 6 lights when it shouldn't. So the next step is to replace Q93? Or test it before replacing it?
 
Thanks Aaron. Is it worth l replacing that transistor and see if it makes a difference. I assume if that transistor fails it will cause bigger problems.

Sorry for the hijack Paul!!! Everydays a school day
 
All good info in your last post @Mfresh , sounds like you can pretty much rule out playfield and diode issues. The diodes for lamps on the boards are mounted on the boards themselves. It should be easy to work out which one ties in with each lamp because the traces are massive and widely spaced out.

Its probably not worth trying to test Q93 because it will probably look fine without load. (Based on the fact it seems to be fine with normal lamps but not LEDs.) If you have a spare TIP107 I'd just change it out and see what happens. Its definitely a logical cause of your problem given the symptoms you describe.

@Spandangler, Yea I'd definitely give it a go if your're happy changing it out as it shouldn't take too long. Most likely scenario if it failed completely would be for it to lock on short. As the lamp matrix is pulsed 18v and the lamps behind it are designed to run on 6.3v they would run very bright and maybe burn out if left for too long. Even if it is leaky it could still keep working as it is for ages. Maybe its always been like that, who knows lol?!
 
I may be wrong but I think WH20 may be one of the few games where the latest code came from WMS already patched. Depends how late it was released. Don't change any board components unless it is patched though....
 
Thanks Aaron, yes I have changed transistors before so happy to try that. Hmmmm not sure about the ROMS @Paul did them for me?
 
Well I changed the TIP107 at Q93 for column 6 but it hasn't made any difference. Whenever a light in any column lights, the light in the same row, column 6 also lights.... Damn. But only with LEDs. With incandescents its fine.
 
Mfresh said:
But only with LEDs. With incandescents its fine.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you've got directional LEDs. Put incandescents back in and replace one at a time ensuring that the column 6 remains unlit. If it lights take the LED out and turn 180 degrees and put back in, that should sort your problem. :cool:
 
I tried turning the bulbs and that didn't work. Then I tried turning the machine round 180 degrees and leaving the bulbs as they were. That didn't work either...
 
Mfresh said:
I tried turning the bulbs and that didn't work. Then I tried turning the machine round 180 degrees and leaving the bulbs as they were. That didn't work either...
Click to expand...

So you fitted incandescents throughout and then just put the one LED in. That then caused the column 6 to light. So you turned the LED round and it still cause column 6 to light? Sounds like you need to try some other LEDs... :rolleyes:
 
I may not have taken out all the LEDs, just the troublesome ones... I'll take another go tonight and be more rigourous about removing all the LEDs first. The LEDs are Dave's premium 2s which I have in all my machines as I have always found them good quality
 
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