What's new
By:
Pinball info

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

5v shock from side rail and lockdown bar DEJP

David_Vi

David_Vi

Site Supporter
5Years
Joined
Sep 3, 2019
Messages
4,004
Location
Sudbury
For nearly two years I've got a tiny static like shock when touching my DE jurassic parks side rails. I thought it was just the glass channel nipping my hair when I'm resting my arm on it 🥴.

But working on a game next to it it's got worse.

I used a DMM today, touching the DEJP side rail and other probe on the other pins side rail.
It jumps about between 0v and 5v.

JP came from Europe and I'm using a travel adaptor into a smart plug, so the game is switched on but the socket is off.

I asked a few people a while ago if I should convert it to a UK plug but apparently it should be fine.
Could it be that? Surely I'm missing the ground prong on a EU plug?
Where is the small voltage coming from?

Advice appreciated 👍
 
Put a UK plug on it and then use your DMM to check continuity between the side rail and the the earth prong of the plug. That will tell you if your earth strap is still in place for the rail or not (I suspect you'll have a break somewhere)
 
David_Vi said:
For nearly two years I've got a tiny static like shock when touching my DE jurassic parks side rails. I thought it was just the glass channel nipping my hair when I'm resting my arm on it 🥴.

But working on a game next to it it's got worse.

I used a DMM today, touching the DEJP side rail and other probe on the other pins side rail.
It jumps about between 0v and 5v.

JP came from Europe and I'm using a travel adaptor into a smart plug, so the game is switched on but the socket is off.

I asked a few people a while ago if I should convert it to a UK plug but apparently it should be fine.
Could it be that? Surely I'm missing the ground prong on a EU plug?
Where is the small voltage coming from?

Advice appreciated 👍
Click to expand...
Leave it round mine for 6 months and see if it improves. If not you'll know it's a ground issue,it it does,it's your house and will need to stay at mine ;)
 
Arv said:
Dodgy ground. Check the metal bits to your plug ground.
Click to expand...

It's an EU plug, so do you mean check the plug (it's molded), or check the inside of the pin where the cable ends up?

Ashbo said:
Leave it round mine for 6 months and see if it improves. If not you'll know it's a ground issue,it it does,it's your house and will need to stay at mine ;)
Click to expand...

🤣 Well it has to be loaned out at some point when the pinball room and downstairs gets decorated. But I think I heard you're not allowed another pin?😆
 
The EU plug should have to prongs poking out and a hole where the earth prong on a Euro socket goes into the plug. Test there is continuity between the side rails or whatever is giving you a shock, and the the hole where the earth prong goes. Or test between the side rails and the earth prong on the travel adapter into which the euro plug is plugged. If there is no continuity, the side rails may not be connected to earth braid in the cabinet, or the earth braid may not be connected to earth (often by one of the transformer legs) or your mains flex may not be connected properly to the plug. Test continuity between these points to figure out if/where there is an earthing problem
 
I had this with one of my machines a few years ago. Can't remember which one. Like you I wondered what it was, as I only noticed it when I leant on the side rail with my forearm until I checked it with a multimeter. Swapping in a new power cable and plug to the transformer sorted out the problem
 
Mfresh said:
The EU plug should have to prongs poking out and a hole where the earth prong on a Euro socket goes into the plug. Test there is continuity between the side rails or whatever is giving you a shock, and the the hole where the earth prong goes. Or test between the side rails and the earth prong on the travel adapter into which the euro plug is plugged.
Click to expand...

This might be the issue, the adaptor I'm using only has the two holes and no third one.
To be fair I suspected this in the past but being new to all this I took peoples word for it that a travel adapter would be ok and I've not checked the plug since I got the game nearly two years ago.

So I either find a better adapter with the correct prongs or I cut the plug off and put on a UK plug?
 
Sven Normansson said:
change the plug and the line cord for UK spec, then check every metal surface has continuity with the earth. Each should have a ground braid. It would fail a PAT test and you'd need to fix before bringing to a show/comp/league.
Click to expand...

this with bells on. Never run a pinball machine with some bozo plug convertor. Its a fire waiting to happen.

Neil.
 
David_Vi said:
This is the way
View attachment 174988

Cut the plug off Rosie's old cable as evidently I forgot to send that with her (all good it's not needed).

0Vdc now🎉

So obvious really but for some reason thought the plug had ground all this time..
Afterall why wouldn't it?🤦‍♂️


Seems it does? But hat the wrong type?
View attachment 174989
Click to expand...
It would have been ok with a proper Schuko adaptor. As it was the game 'earth' would be floating at ~120v AC hence the tingle. This would have worked https://www.amazon.co.uk/ampTECH-Pl...r&qid=1657092980&sprefix=schuko,aps,97&sr=8-3

David
 
Running without a ground is not a great idea on a pinball.

Just buy a proper moulded mains lead. A lot of people wire UK plugs incorrectly for starters.....

If you had set your multimeter to AC volts it would of read higher than 5V.

Also the EURO to UK mains plug adaptors listed above by Dave (DAflippers) are awful.

Anything like that fails a PAT test on my watch.


The price for not dying - £5.01 on a pinball you spent thousands on....?!?!?! I bet Phil Palmer would of sent you one if you called him to say it had come with the incorrect one. On my GnR visists I carried a box of mains leads.
 
The Bally and Williams games I unpacked when new in the early 90's always had blue-white protective plastic left on the side rails, even under the earthing bolt at the front end. At the time, I just had a tidy appearance in mind when I temporarily loosened this bolt to pull the plastic out from under it, but it was probably affecting the earth connection of the rails. I still sometimes see games that age with a scrap of the plastic showing under the bolt head.

On one occasion I was getting ready to do this with a new game when the boss arrived, took hold of the plastic and pulled it away, before I could say 'let me loosen this bolt first'.
 
Last edited:
Pick Holder said:
Running without a ground is not a great idea on a pinball.

Just buy a proper moulded mains lead. A lot of people wire UK plugs incorrectly for starters.....

If you had set your multimeter to AC volts it would of read higher than 5V.

Also the EURO to UK mains plug adaptors listed above by Dave (DAflippers) are awful.

Anything like that fails a PAT test on my watch.


The price for not dying - £5.01 on a pinball you spent thousands on....?!?!?! I bet Phil Palmer would of sent you one if you called him to say it had come with the incorrect one. On my GnR visists I carried a box of mains leads.
Click to expand...

It came from Europe, i looked into changing the cable before but it's wired in and looked like a lot more work.
Changing the plug seems to have done the trick
 
Pick Holder said:
Running without a ground is not a great idea on a pinball.

Just buy a proper moulded mains lead. A lot of people wire UK plugs incorrectly for starters.....

If you had set your multimeter to AC volts it would of read higher than 5V.

Also the EURO to UK mains plug adaptors listed above by Dave (DAflippers) are awful.

Anything like that fails a PAT test on my watch.


The price for not dying - £5.01 on a pinball you spent thousands on....?!?!?! I bet Phil Palmer would of sent you one if you called him to say it had come with the incorrect one. On my GnR visists I carried a box of mains leads.
Click to expand...

Why are they awful?

Do you ever use adaptors when travelling abroad? Are they awful?

It might not be the neatest long term solution but it was safer than the original solution that had been used for a long time. No more dangerous than WiFi mains sockets in the 4 way.

I agree that it is best to replace with a UK plug but better than no earth and the Schuko is held in place by design.

David
 
DAFlippers said:
Why are they awful?

Do you ever use adaptors when travelling abroad? Are they awful?

It might not be the neatest long term solution but it was safer than the original solution that had been used for a long time. No more dangerous than WiFi mains sockets in the 4 way.

I agree that it is best to replace with a UK plug but better than no earth and the Schuko is held in place by design.

David
Click to expand...
You have never worked in any time of retail that sells electrical products.

It is now illegal to sell a europeean leaded product in the UK even with one of the better adaptors that screw on.

Everything needs to have a moulded UK plug.

About 5 years ago Fender a massive company sold amps with a european mains lead here in the UK and gave people one of those adaptors shown on here, trouble is the adaptors got lost in the shop most the ime or foks were not given them. So they bought cheap non grounding adaptors, or cut off the plug and wired a UK plug on it. I saw issues of badly wired plugs and heard of people getting shocks from the amplifiers which is not good when 450v is used within valve amps. It was all user error. The comapny recalled the amps and I spent weeks relacing the line cords with the correct ones.

When I travel to Europe to play, I have 4 ways made up from a European plug so I can run all my equipment of UK plugs (which are better as they are individually fused as well).
 
I remember the days when if you bought anything electrical you put your own plug on it. What could possibly go wrong? Seems ludicrous now. 😱
 
Being able to wire a plug is one of those basic skills everyone should learn but they don’t.

If it’s illegal to sell a European plug device in the UK then presumably Amazon must potentially be in **** loads of trouble with their dodgy Chinese plugs and very ropey adapters.

I never really understood why so many turntables came with 2 pin plugs.
 
Pick Holder said:
You have never worked in any time of retail that sells electrical products.

It is now illegal to sell a europeean leaded product in the UK even with one of the better adaptors that screw on.

Everything needs to have a moulded UK plug.

About 5 years ago Fender a massive company sold amps with a european mains lead here in the UK and gave people one of those adaptors shown on here, trouble is the adaptors got lost in the shop most the ime or foks were not given them. So they bought cheap non grounding adaptors, or cut off the plug and wired a UK plug on it. I saw issues of badly wired plugs and heard of people getting shocks from the amplifiers which is not good when 450v is used within valve amps. It was all user error. The comapny recalled the amps and I spent weeks relacing the line cords with the correct ones.

When I travel to Europe to play, I have 4 ways made up from a European plug so I can run all my equipment of UK plugs (which are better as they are individually fused as well).
Click to expand...

Phil,

I am not advocating selling the adaptor with a product in the retail environment just that within the home environment it would be a solution to the problem. The adaptor I posted is earthed and not 'awful', you are conflating your experience of Fender Amps, incorrect adaptors and plugs wired by Bass players to incorrectly label this adaptor as 'awful' when it isn't.

Now your recommended solution for EU travel is a self wired Schuko, something you do not recommend. Why not use something like the below and a standard, off the shelf UK 4 way?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Euro-Europ...keywords=plugs+adapters&qid=1657264902&sr=8-3

David
 
DAFlippers said:
Now your recommended solution for EU travel is a self wired Schuko, something you do not recommend. Why not use something like the below and a standard, off the shelf UK 4 way?
Click to expand...
If the Eu plug is 2 pin, isn't it still not earthed regardless? France relies on the RCD in the house rather than an individual fuse/earth which is a poor idea. There are some earthed appliances e.g. washing machines and (I think) cookers. But it wasn't the norm AFAIK.
 
Paul R Owen said:
I remember the days when if you bought anything electrical you put your own plug on it. What could possibly go wrong? Seems ludicrous now. 😱
Click to expand...
When still a school kid in the mid 80s I had a Saturday job in a local Currys type place - I was often trusted to fit a plug on a new appliance for customers 😬Never heard of any house fires or deaths so I think they were all ok 😁
 
Part of my first interview when i was 16 (many many years ago) was to wire a plug.... And then write a step by step on how i did it....
 
Yes my apprenticeship interview had a few trade-tests, one of which was to wire a plug.
Many candidates did it incorrectly, its not just the right colours in the right places but should the flex be pulled out of the plug the Earth should be the last to leave its screw terminal. That way the appliance is Earthed as long as possible
Cheers Bob
 
Sven Normansson said:
If the Eu plug is 2 pin, isn't it still not earthed regardless? France relies on the RCD in the house rather than an individual fuse/earth which is a poor idea. There are some earthed appliances e.g. washing machines and (I think) cookers. But it wasn't the norm AFAIK.
Click to expand...
The Schuko plug is earthed and that is what was being discussed.

David
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom