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Why Do Folk Buy NIB Games ?

DRD

DRD

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Curious to know the answers to this. Plenty of folk choose to buy them, I get that and I am not looking to diss new games here. I know that many will think me mad for my love of Fish Tales. But after Thunderbirds, Ghostbusters, Full Throttle, Dialed-in...... These games all get so much hype and then there is so much disappointment afterwards.

To me new games relative to 90s games are ...
  • More expensive
  • Supplied with incomplete code
  • Less reliable, with the potential for major repair bills
  • Poorer quality artwork/ dot matrix print quality/ Photoshop art
  • Often, stripped down, 2 flipper fan layout games with no toys
  • Risky, the manufacturer might go bust/ fail to deliver
  • The game might be complete crap or have a fundamental design flaw that you did not know about when you ordered it
  • Lack design finesse and attention to detail. My NIB Dialed in was almost there, but had design weaknesses (air balls, impossible SIM card shot) that Lawlor eliminated in his 80s and 90s games
  • Just feel a bit cheapo
Is it because you ..
  • Just want new, like folk like a new car ?
  • Want a clean, shiny, flawless game
  • Are simply bored with MM, TAF, STTNG ... the 90s high watermark games that you have played for 20 years plus ?
  • Value the improved TV display?
  • Like the improved sound and speakers?
  • Want rainbow led effects?
  • Like the deep rules modern games have?
  • Just want to own one, learn how to play it properly, sell it on?
 
Good thread. I do not buy NIB because:

DRD said:
  • More expensive
  • Supplied with incomplete code
Click to expand...

And in the case of CGC remakes:
DRD said:
  • More expensive
  • Less reliable, with the potential for major repair bills (this can’t be quantified for another 20yrs)
  • The game might be complete crap or have a fundamental design flaw (see above, we don’t know yet)
Click to expand...

Saying this, I did buy a very nearly new Metallica Premium recently. Why?
I’d owned a used Pro and wanted the complete package, so upgraded.
The code is complete & has great depth. I was very happy to wait the 5yrs or so that it took to get to that point(!)
The artwork is great.
It has a good mix of fun toys.
Great audio & dots.
Metal ramps.
I accept the SMD electronics & build quality may be ****e, but I can live with this for a few years.
Plus a little hint of this...

Are simply bored with MM, TAF, STTNG ... the 90s high watermark games that you have played for 20 years plus ?

...seeing as the high water mark games are 20-25yrs old now, and showing signs of their relatively simplistic rules:
 
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Deep rules is mentioned many times when saying new games are better than 90s classics. But that doesn't explain nib.
I imagine that if money was no object I'd have nib. It must be fun to unwrap a new game. Like Christmas come early.
 
domlouis said:
Deep rules is mentioned many times when saying new games are better than 90s classics. But that doesn't explain nib.
I imagine that if money was no object I'd have nib. It must be fun to unwrap a new game. Like Christmas come early.
Click to expand...
And sometimes deeper but less well designed isn’t better than simpler but more intuitive and fun.
Likewise, if money was no object, as it appears to be for some fortunate forum members, then it would be a nice experience to open a NIB, but still feel I’d wait for games to mature after launch and buy nearly-new instead.
 
I unwrapped a nib dialed-in. Played like crap. It needed an enormous amount of work to get it playing nicely. New rubbers, new target rubbers, new standup target, grease removal, switch adjustment, solenoid strength and timing adjustments, mech removal and adjustment, shooter rod alignment, filing metal off the autishooter mech, bending levers .........
 
DRD said:
  • More expensive
  • Supplied with incomplete code
  • Less reliable, with the potential for major repair bills
  • Poorer quality artwork/ dot matrix print quality/ Photoshop art
  • Often, stripped down, 2 flipper fan layout games with no toys
  • Risky, the manufacturer might go bust/ fail to deliver
  • The game might be complete crap or have a fundamental design flaw that you did not know about when you ordered it
  • Lack design finesse and attention to detail. My NIB Dialed in was almost there, but had design weaknesses (air balls, impossible SIM card shot) that Lawlor eliminated in his 80s and 90s games
  • Just feel a bit cheapo
Click to expand...

1) why not? if a used one is £500 less, why not buy a new one?
2) depends what's ment by incomplete. There's nothing fundamentally wrong with GB and there wasn't with deadpool. DI code was solid as was ST and ACDC
3) utter twaddle, 2 year guarantee is bought from PH
4) Really? Have you actually seen the latest Stern offerings. Don't forget they needed to reduce costs to survive in that depression
5) Yes, but take a really close look at games like NF, Getaway, Shadow etc. Not toy laden but still play great
6) Yes, so play it first. The same would have been true of buying NIB in the 90'5. CV was a crapfest of problems
7) JJP is a SMALL volume manufacturer. You expect problems and DI did have more than I was expecting but really?
8) No they don't.
 
I’ve had 3 NIB and have one on way being MBr LE

My 1st was ST LE which was a great package and at £6500 seemed a decent deal, 3 yrs on I never lost a penny when it sold

2nd was for a close family member a IM Premium and was bought through his business (lost the VAT) so was a no brainier as it ended up cheaper than a 2nd hand one.

The last which is hopefully on it’s way soon is a MBr LE and although I agree it’s expensive its a Pin I know well as I’ve had 2 but this time it’s a tried and tested pin without need for code upgrades 3yrs down the line and the bonus is the extras CGC have brought with lighting, sound, display and revamped painted toys amongst other things. Mainly I don’t wanna wait 3 yrs for a nice 2nd hand one!

That said I’ve bought a dozen or so older machines and saved tons getting the likes of WOZ and TH with final code and lots of mods for £1000’s cheaper
 
There is nothing wrong with Dialed In, apart from the tweaks needed, wonderful game and my favourite of all modern games. GB ? I dont see what's wrong with GB apart from the guy who designed it reference? But surely all his other games should be tarred with the same brush in that case?.

Thunderbirds proved you could make a NIB pin for $5k retail, Stern could do if they wanted to.

Throttle, well, lets leave it there.

Phil
 
Really dont understand why you need to tweak a new pinball.
Should work straight out of the box.
7K and it should just work.
 
I don't get it either. I was reading the Munsters hype through on Pinside with some fascination.

No one, that I remember seeing or hearing about, was chomping at the bit for The Munsters. But when Stern announced it suddenly it was like it was the second coming, "it's finally here", etc. I'm convinced that a good percentage of people will just buy whatever new pin Stern cranks out, whatever the theme is - so long as its nothing obviously egregious like The Cosby Show. I don't believe people actually really care a great deal about The Munsters beyond the fact that its the new hotness. No one was talking about it before. I fully expect when Jaws or Elvira or Buffy the Vampire Slayer or whatever next is announced that will get exactly the same treatment - people losing their minds over it.

So yeah, I think a big proportion just get sucked up into buying something new. It's as if these people are just saving up for the next theme without any real consideration for what it might be. It's new, it's pinball, day one sight unseen LE purchase please.

I wouldn't buy NIB either unless it was a theme that really excited me, but I would consider a CGC remake of something I really liked (please don't remake Addams now that I've bought one plzzz plzzz)
 
DRD said:
Curious to know the answers to this. Plenty of folk choose to buy them, I get that and I am not looking to diss new games here. I know that many will think me mad for my love of Fish Tales. But after Thunderbirds, Ghostbusters, Full Throttle, Dialed-in...... These games all get so much hype and then there is so much disappointment afterwards.

To me new games relative to 90s games are ...
  • More expensive
  • Supplied with incomplete code
  • Less reliable, with the potential for major repair bills
  • Poorer quality artwork/ dot matrix print quality/ Photoshop art
  • Often, stripped down, 2 flipper fan layout games with no toys
  • Risky, the manufacturer might go bust/ fail to deliver
  • The game might be complete crap or have a fundamental design flaw that you did not know about when you ordered it
  • Lack design finesse and attention to detail. My NIB Dialed in was almost there, but had design weaknesses (air balls, impossible SIM card shot) that Lawlor eliminated in his 80s and 90s games
  • Just feel a bit cheapo
Is it because you ..
  • Just want new, like folk like a new car ?
  • Want a clean, shiny, flawless game
  • Are simply bored with MM, TAF, STTNG ... the 90s high watermark games that you have played for 20 years plus ?
  • Value the improved TV display?
  • Like the improved sound and speakers?
  • Want rainbow led effects?
  • Like the deep rules modern games have?
  • Just want to own one, learn how to play it properly, sell it on?
Click to expand...


I buy new games because i'm bored to death with all the 90s games, 80s games and so on. A fresh game to play for awhile and enjoy helps to keep my pinball mojo alive. which when you work on pinball products all day every day takes some doing.

If you still like pinball after 25 years come back and reread your post and see if you still agree with yourself :)
 
This is a very interesting thread for someone in my position as I am looking to buy my first machine in the coming months. I have zero ability to fix anything, so I’m torn between buying a brand new fresh out of the box machine with peace of mind that it will be covered by a 2 year warranty but they’re aren’t many choices that tickle my fancy, apart from Ghostbusters. Or buying a 90s machine like the ones that I used to love playing when I was growing up and tend to be less expensive to buy, however, I'm more likely to pay out for someone to come and fix any issues that it may develop.
 
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Slimetime said:
This is a very interesting thread for someone in my position as I am looking to buy my first machine in the coming months. I have zero ability to fix anything, so I’m torn between buying a brand new fresh out of the box machine with peace of mind that it will be covered by a 2 year warranty but they’re aren’t many choices that tickle my fancy, apart from Ghostbusters. Or buying a 90s machine which I loved playing when I was growing up and tend to be less expensive to buy, however, I'm more likely to pay out for someone to come and fix any issues that it may develop.
Click to expand...
In that case you’re probably better off buying one say a year or so old from someone off here who will have done all the tweaks and got it playing nice
 
^^^^^^^ some good advice there. A NIB is likely to have teething problems that an experienced hand can easily sort out. Phil at Pinball Heaven gives good backup on new games bought from him

A 20 year old game, if bought from the right seller, should be free of teething problems. A 20 year old game, bought from the wrong seller could be a can of worms for a noob.

BUT any game can give trouble when you move it. So no matter what you buy, there is a small risk that something will have shaken loose etc in transit
 
Slimetime said:
Thanks for the advice chaps.
Click to expand...
I’m useless at fixing them too . I’ve bought one NIB and about 12 off folk on here . Probably half turn up with some minor issue (usually just a cable needing reseating) but in every single case the seller has been amazingly helpful and indeed posts for help on the technical forum on here are always answered by very helpful folk on here . So I’d say

  1. be prepared for issues
  2. By all means work out who your fall back ‘paid’ repair person will be
  3. but don’t let it put you off
 
Two others points to add to the mix, although neither directly answer the questions posed:

1 – If none of us bought NIB games there would be very few, if any recent games available on the secondary market. It’s not like there are countless operators buying them over like there were in the 90s – if collectors didn't buy them new we’d just be passing around the same old games for the rest of time unless we resorted to importing.

2 – Up until recently it hasn't been that expensive. Yes it’s a big outlay, but let’s say you buy a game NIB, keep it for a couple of years and then sell it for £1,500 less than you bought it for – that’s £750 a year. What other hobbies are there where you can get two years entertainment/use out of an expensive item and then only lose £1,500?

I think we were all a bit spoilt by the days of essentially only ‘tying up’ money in machines, expecting to get it all back or more when we sold. The reality of most hobbies is they cost money, and I’m happy to lose a bit of cash on a NIB purchase as I view that as the price of the enjoyment of owning it.

The problem now though is that the prices keep creeping up. I've had six NIB games over the years (AC/DC Prem, IM Vault, Met LE, GB Prem, Lebowski and TNA) and the most expensive of those was around £2k less than a Stern Premium would cost today. I think NIB buyers, especially of the top end games, are going to find it harder and harder to move them on without taking a much bigger hit. I'm not saying I won't do it again, but there's no chance I'll do it as often as I did in the past.
 
Great mix of 2nd hand and NIB for me (about 5 NIB out of 28). I’ll get NIB if I’m absolutely sure since ended up being disappointed with Dialed In and also The Hobbit although both better with updates. I like the 90s stuff as much as the new stuff, regardless I enjoy modding them and there is more to be done with earlier games before SMD components.

For the first time in a while I’m not bothered about anything currently or due to be announced. I’ve got a great line up and happy with them, I may change 1 or 2 but I do t know what.
 
You would have thought 25 plus years later they would be much better like going from 60’s or 70’s to the 90’s massive difference but 90’s to 2019 you get a big screen, rgb led’s and better quality sound. No big jump to me. To me it seems it peaked in the 90’s. Nice to have fresh blood I guess.
 
I’ve had the pleasure of opening a NIB Robotron cocktail, a METLE and a DILE.

Like others, I had a host of issues with DI straight out of he box, so am likely to tread carefully with JJP in the future. Robotron needed a couple of RAM chips having sat in a warehouse for 25 years, but thankfully someone had taken the batteries out!

All the above said, that smell of brand new electronics...
 
Fear of not being able to get one 2nd hand?

I’ve had 2 NIB games and have an Alice Cooper on order

All three will be keepers.

Don’t regret buying any of them but each time it’s a risk that you’ve bought a turd.
 
It’s good to have a mix of machines from different manufacturers and eras. I think were currently in a purple patch similar to that of Bally/Williams 93-96. IMO deeper games are more suited to the home environment..
 
NIB -
GBLE - playfield inset ghosting- incomplete code
D.I LE- trap door alignment, drones flaking out
STARWARS LE - No issues yet-code was crap but makes the game now.
GOTGLE- Orb drop target needs adjusting- code better now
MunstersLE - not got it yet- will wait and see!

All games have issues out of the box one way or another

I was a little ****ed at lack of toys on STARWARS for such an epic theme.
 
Does anyone purely only buy NIB? Don’t think so.

With the exception of B66 I played all the NIB games I bought and at the time of buying it wasn’t possible to buy nearly new. Nearly new though has saved me a load of dosh:

GOTG - saved 1500 on a game that had less than 300 plays
MMR - saved 1000 again few hundred plays
DI - saved £1000 few hundred plays!

Only IMDN has had problems out of the box and I nearly torched it but now runs lovely (just jinxed myself!)

As games break the 10K mark I’m out on new in box - and will wait for the game to be available nearly new, or wait for premium version.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
johnwhitfield said:
Fear of not being able to get one 2nd hand?
Click to expand...

Yes . When AC/DC Pro VE came out I just had to have it. To me it was the best version of a brilliant pin. It's the only Stern I've wanted over the past 2 years.

But I couldn't see many being sold NIB (loads of AC/DCs around already, not to mention the predjudice against the original Pro) and I doubted any would be available further down the line.

And I think I was right on both counts:

1. So far as I'm concerned it's just brilliant, plays a much better game than the Premium - I do know most folks don't agree with me.

2. Can't recall seeing one come up 2nd hand since it's release 2 years ago.

Would I buy NIB again? I doubt it, they're getting ridiculously expensive.
 
When folk flog nearly new games an issue is that the warranty does not get transferred to the buyer. This puts a number of risk averse buyers off and they buy NIB instead. I had interest in my DI that vanished over this issue.

Given that Phil helps folk with out of warranty games, more experienced buyers can save a grand or so buying nearly new, and they get a game that has probably been tweaked and sorted by the original buyer. I think I read that my old DI died at Daventry and Phil still fixed it.





Neil McRae said:
Does anyone purely only buy NIB? Don’t think so.

With the exception of B66 I played all the NIB games I bought and at the time of buying it wasn’t possible to buy nearly new. Nearly new though has saved me a load of dosh:

GOTG - saved 1500 on a game that had less than 300 plays
MMR - saved 1000 again few hundred plays
DI - saved £1000 few hundred plays!

Only IMDN has had problems out of the box and I nearly torched it but now runs lovely (just jinxed myself!)

As games break the 10K mark I’m out on new in box - and will wait for the game to be available nearly new, or wait for premium version.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Click to expand...
 
NIB doesn't mean sight unseen.

I bought my only NIB, IMdn, in September -a good 6 months after it was released. During that time I had played it at Electric Circus, Tilt and Pinfest. Every time I went to one of those places I gravitated towards IMdn, so I knew what I was getting.

Buying NIB does give you the thrill of opening a brand new pin, setting it up for the very first time, playing the very first ball on it, setting the first high score, etc. etc.
Buying VERY soon after release, gives you the chance to be among the first in the world to discover new features as well as bugs and issues.

As for issues with NIB games, with only a few exceptions, the vast majority of the hardware problems can be attributed to the fact that the machines have travelled halfway across the world, via road, rail and sea. Anyone who has ever transported a machine, whether that be to a show or just on collection will know the all to common issue of 'it worked perfectly before I moved it'. These things happen. The very first game on IMdn the left slingshot was 'machine-gunning' it simply needed the leaf switch opening a touch. One of the GI inlane bulbs was flickering, again an easy fix (which I should really get round to at some point)- not a massive problem that I felt the need to post on every forum bemoaning the build quality of every NIB from a particular manufacturer.
Every machine has similar foibles which are either there from the start or develop after any number of games.

Software issues are different - again the expectation is that they should be fully complete (to your own perception of what complete is) and bug tested for every single scenario. Are people simply ignoring the numerous bugs on older machines, or are they just accepted now? The rules are exponentially more complicated than even 10 years ago, it seems to be Sterns business model to ship games out with a skeleton code to pick up any bugs, then release further flesh to the rules - the majority of the time they finish with a decent game.
At least now there is a mechanism to get the modern bugs updated. How many updates does your phone, or PC, or even your smart TV get ? I don't hear the same complaints regarding bugs.

A fair no. of other issues are due to the inexperience of the person setting up the machine, with unreal expectations. I've heard a number of times the like of 'the feed from this orbit/shot/scoop hits the slingshot/goes SDTM - it shouldn't do that, it should return direct to the flipper'. Firstly who says it should return directly to the flipper - it seems that people now have the expectation that every made shot should return direct to flipper, or that you can cradle the ball every time. (I'm guessing this has come from any number of tutorials watching players - almost certainly significantly more skilful than the viewer - spending most of their time trying to cradle the ball, especially during multiballs.
Secondly it takes a little bit of effort to set up a machine so that it plays to your liking. It's not just a case of putting a level on one point of the machine, checking it's level horizontally, then setting it as steep as possible and whining that it doesn't play 'right'. It takes plenty of small tweaks. This isn't exclusive to NIB machines.

:mad:
Rant over.

No it's not
"2 flipper fan layout" What layout do you want with 2 flippers?
Having 2 flippers hasn't seemed to affected the love for MM, AFM, MB, dare I say FT.

Now it is
 
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