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TAF thing issues...

Paul

Paul

Staff member
Joined
Oct 5, 2012
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South Wales
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Toibs
Hi all,

On the final leg of getting this complete rebuild complete... Going through final testing (Solenoids)...

Seem to have an issue with both the Thing knocker and Thing kickout tests... When i run both in the test menu all the lights die and the machine locks up (doesnt respond to any test button presses...)

Thing up/down thests work fine with no issues.

Anyone had this before or any suggestions please??

Cheers
Paul
 

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Complete playfield swap.... so yes.

Interestingly when i remove the Thing scoop Coil it doesnt lock up, so will try to replace before looking further...
 
I have had some strange issues with dodgy solenoids e.g sttng cannon motors moved very slowly until i changes one of the flipper solenoids Weird. Hope that is the issue, if not although i am sure you have already done it check the wiring

Drew
 
Shot in the dark but you could try reseating the ribbon cable at J113. Power for Thing knocker comes from J130-2 (Power Driver Board) according to schematics.
 
Just about to buzz the whole thing through... and change both coils... Despite both coils reading the correct 4 Ohms (AE 23-800), as soon as i disconnect Thing magnet, and then disconnect the thin (trigger) wire on the Thing coil then the issue goes away...

Interestingly, there seems to be a mismatch on my wiring Vs the Manual wiring...
Manual...

1540233091224.png

So i make that
1. Red
2. Vio/Or
3. Vio/Yel
4. N/C
5. Vio/Gn
6. Red/Wh

My wiring (Re-molexed as part of the rebuild...)

J107.jpg

Which doesnt match... however checking the teardown pics...

1540233829432.png

Which would indicate the Manual is wrong and the current wiring is correct, therefore meaning the issue is elsewhere...
 
This guy has the same wiring as you (and noticed the same discrepancy). Several others on Pinside said the same. So looks like the manual is definitely wrong.

The Gold manual has the same wiring too..
 
Yup...

The diagram of J107 on page 3-9 is wrong (pin 1 <-> pin5 )
On page 3-19 is a correct version of J107 (power circuits)

Checked J132 to each of the first 8 Solenoids... all good. Also checked each to the adjacent (1-3-4-5-6-7-8) - all good. Then buzzed this back to J107 pin 3 - all good. As mentioned, just checked both Knocker and thing kickout coils - Both good at 4 Ohms.

Cant seem to find any info on the Thing magnet coil (Solenoid 6) - it's coming in at around 69.5 Ohms, which seems a little high, however i can't find anything to reference it to to know if it is correct...

Just stripped the Thing magnet down... took readings directly from the coil... 70.1 Ohms.. no obvious issues with the windings that i can see...

Current status

Thing Knocker - Drive wire disconnected (thin)
Thing Magnet - Connected
Thing Kickout - Connected

in tests...

Thing Knocker - nothing (as expected)
Thing magnet - Works fine
Thing kickout - Machine dies

Next up... Change of the Thing kickout coil, despite testing ok...
 
The fact the Thing Knocker and the Thing Kickout lock the machine would seem to make a bad solenoid unlikely I'd have thought?

What's the common factor between those two coils, and what's uncommon about them?

How is J130 wired?
 
Coil changed... no difference... :D

The commonalities... fed from different connectors (Knocker from J132, Kickout from J130 pin8)... There are other solenoids on J130 that work fine.
The other end - well they are BOTH fed from J107 Pin3... Tho there are plenty of others that are also, and work fine... (example is Outhole, ball release, Ramp diverter etc etc...

1540240943794.png
 
Aye, I was just looking at that. The common factors ought to make the other coils exhibit the same symptoms.
 
Not easily.. will have to dig the one out of Wh20.... That could be a job for tomorrow night me thinks....

I was thinking transistor, however they are of course all fed from different ones... so not that...
 
only common point i can see on the WPC circuit diagram is Q15.... This connects to J107 pin 3, which in turn feeds all these Solenoids...

1540242965922.png

The rest (other side) are all fed from different Transistors, so unlikely to be the culperates...
 
Actually I think it's easy to prove if it's the chip or not without swapping the boards over, just ground the transistor and see if the correct one fires... :thumbs:
 
pinballmania said:
STOP RIGHT THERE.

Now put away the wpc95 schematic manual and get a wpc one out
Click to expand...

Oops!!! only a Jedi would know that..... nicely spotted (and thanks) @pinballmania Andy!!!!
wpc.jpg
so it seems that these are fed straight from the fuses... So the issue has to be either wiring or coils then... or an issue with U5 which controls all these...

WPC2.jpg
 
Well J130-2 the thing knocker controlled by Q79 and Q80 from U5.

You've said thing kickout is J130-8 controlled by Q67 and Q68 from U5.
 
Back to short the tab to see if the coil fires correctly or not. If it does the U5 is most likely suspect if it doesn't then perhaps the coil is wired incorrectly...
 
Moonraker said:
Back to short the tab to see if the coil fires correctly or not. If it does the U5 is most likely suspect if it doesn't then perhaps the coil is wired incorrectly...
Click to expand...

From memory it's just earthing the Tab of the transistor isnt it?
 
Ok... managed to get around to swapping the Driver board last night.. And success... issues solved.

So... i think i'll replace U5 on the original board and re-test... if that doesnt work then U4.... If there's still an issue then either fire it off for testing/repair or pick up another if i can...
 
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