Had a 48hrs with nothing blowing and the high scores remaining!
Changing as in a new NVRAM? If the scores disappear again I'll look into it
Changing as in a new NVRAM? If the scores disappear again I'll look into it
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System 11 high scores show 00.
- Thread starter David_Vi
- Start date
Everything was fine till today. I changed two switches over as one must have been an operators hack using the incorrect switch and some wire bent to be the arm. The other was bent so much the metal must have weakened and the ball eventually would stop activating it.
During this I turned the machine on and off to test the switches. Had one wired wrong of course!
Then when I turned it on after finishing the hstd table was showing zeros.
No other issues, no transistors blown for 5 days now.
So is it possible for NVRAM to be dodgy? I can only assume it must be that losing that one piece of data?
Why does it only seem to happen when I've been working on it?
During this I turned the machine on and off to test the switches. Had one wired wrong of course!
Then when I turned it on after finishing the hstd table was showing zeros.
No other issues, no transistors blown for 5 days now.
So is it possible for NVRAM to be dodgy? I can only assume it must be that losing that one piece of data?
Why does it only seem to happen when I've been working on it?
Yes, the RAM can be dodgy. Probably more prevalent when you're switching it on and off more than otherwise (i.e. work on it). You could try to reproduce the issue this way, but given the RAM is socketed I'd just change it and see what happens. All settings do remain? May be worthwhile checking them when this happens. Probably an issue where it misreads the highscore setting from the RAM and deletes them based on that on being switched on. This should be visible when on if it doesn't re-read the values when you enter the menu.Everything was fine till today. I changed two switches over as one must have been an operators hack using the incorrect switch and some wire bent to be the arm. The other was bent so much the metal must have weakened and the ball eventually would stop activating it.
During this I turned the machine on and off to test the switches. Had one wired wrong of course!
Then when I turned it on after finishing the hstd table was showing zeros.
No other issues, no transistors blown for 5 days now.
So is it possible for NVRAM to be dodgy? I can only assume it must be that losing that one piece of data?
Why does it only seem to happen when I've been working on it?
I'm happy to order some new NVRAM but how do I know which is the right type? The socketted one on my board doesn't look like the ones online
Going by old pics of the board, it seems @myPinballs changed the Nvram already, so maybe it isn't that? 
Would suspect the ones you‘re looking at to be normal RAMs which will work with a battery only. Even if the RAM has been changed it doesn‘t necessarily mean that the new one is OK, but @myPinballs can probably confirm if/why he changed it.
Try to replicate the issue and see if the settings are garbled when it happens. Switching on/off in relatively quick succession similar to when you‘re fixing things may trigger it.
Try to replicate the issue and see if the settings are garbled when it happens. Switching on/off in relatively quick succession similar to when you‘re fixing things may trigger it.
This is the spot right?
This was before Jim fixed it, I believe there was something dodgy about how it was installed that he fixed.
No settings appear to change. Our custom message stays, the game adjustments seem to be the same. Only the high scores go funny.
This was before Jim fixed it, I believe there was something dodgy about how it was installed that he fixed.
No settings appear to change. Our custom message stays, the game adjustments seem to be the same. Only the high scores go funny.
Yes, he wrote that the socket soldering was dodgy and he replaced it. So when it loses the high score the associated setting is as normal, ie retain Highscore? Can’t see the high score zeroing out without that setting flipping. Is this also happening when you don’t switch it on and off multiple times? Don’t know If/what RAM tests Sys11 is running on startup.
That thing with the knocker going when you switch it on - Pinball Repair guides say this is an added feature of system 11 boards and is a way of alerting you to the fact there is a switch issue (in addition to the regular “Adjust Switch” message in the test report).
Learnt that this week as been helping someone out that had a switch issue (amongst other issues) with a Banzai Run.
I don't understand, which setting?
I don't know any settings that zeros high scores but keeps initials. The back up high scores aren't set to zeros, if I hold reset high scores I get different intials and scores that are in the adjustments under backup high scores
I thought this too originally but I was told it's common and the knocker has to go six times to indicate a fault.
I believe there's an adjustment to turn that off, if so I'll try that to eliminate it.
Ah, the initials stay, just the score is being zeroed out?
Setting is Ad13 - if that goes to "off" on a boot where the highscores zero out you know that this bit flips sometimes. I have no idea what intended behavior is, e.g. are just the scores reset to backup or zeroed out. Assume once they are zero they stay zero even through another reboot? If that is the case the specific spot in the RAM is overwritten somehow. Would be great to figure out when this happens, also if the scores are corrupted but not completely zeroed at times.
Setting is Ad13 - if that goes to "off" on a boot where the highscores zero out you know that this bit flips sometimes. I have no idea what intended behavior is, e.g. are just the scores reset to backup or zeroed out. Assume once they are zero they stay zero even through another reboot? If that is the case the specific spot in the RAM is overwritten somehow. Would be great to figure out when this happens, also if the scores are corrupted but not completely zeroed at times.
The backup high scores are what are used if you reset high scores along with preset initials that you can change.
I don't think there's any settings that would zero a score but keep initials. It's definitely an error.
Somehow it loses memory of the high scores and sees them as zero.
I'm tempted to get a battery pack to solder on and keep at the bottom of the backbox to see If it eliminates this but I'm unsure if I can add batteries as well as nvram on this board.
It works on other games, as I mentioned earlier in the thread I have nvram and batteries in Road Show so it keeps time. (It seems silly but I put the batteries in later after finding the original battery board and thought I'd just leave nvram in).
I think someone said it might not work depending on the type of nvram as the might have been modified.
Have you tried setting a13 to off and see what the behavior is? You will have to establish a high score ofc 
...
Battery will probably not do you any good, it will keep the RAM powered, given it is nv that should not make any difference. What I don't get is how the whole block with the scores and only that gets zeroed out, would be interesting to read the RAM before/after to see what is going on.
...Battery will probably not do you any good, it will keep the RAM powered, given it is nv that should not make any difference. What I don't get is how the whole block with the scores and only that gets zeroed out, would be interesting to read the RAM before/after to see what is going on.
I don't know about the current ram or original. It came with NVRAM.
Setting high scores to off turns high scores off all together, none in attract and you can't set any.
It reset them to zeros again today. All I did was turn it on.
It hadn't done it for four days till yesterday and now this morning
Setting high scores to off turns high scores off all together, none in attract and you can't set any.
It reset them to zeros again today. All I did was turn it on.
It hadn't done it for four days till yesterday and now this morning
whenever you switch the game on, check the high scores are there before playing a game. if they are zero don’t play a game , switch off and restart and see if the high scores return.
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So you solder the extra 4 pins back on..
See the Reset test point just by your NVRAM IC? - If you wire up your logic probe and place the tip on that test point, then power up - how long does it take to move from low to high? Should be noticeable - ie not immediate, but say around 1/10th sec
Reason I ask is because I'm just wondering if the board is starting up too quickly.
Reason I ask is because I'm just wondering if the board is starting up too quickly.
It's a straight swap? If so I'll definitely try it. I've searched the part number and can't find any available. Is there a suitable substitution?
I noticed the knocker pulses on turn off also, I only saw it as I have the backbox open. Doesn't get enough power to fully knock.
I'll give the logic Probe a go
A Google Search did tell me this might be suitable..
IC LH5116-15 SHARP Static RAM CMOS 16K (2K × 8)
IC LH5116-15 SHARP Static RAM CMOS 16K (2K × 8)
IC LH5116-15 SHARP Static RAM CMOS 16K (2K × 8) | eBay
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Did it a few times. First time high was noticable. Others barely.
During this the scores reset to zero again
I thought I could just replace the one already in there with the correct kind for the original board? I don't think there's any jumpers on the board since Jim fixed it so I'd have thought putting original ram in and wiring up a battery pack would be straight forward?
So the reset was low for a fraction of a second and then went high when you first tried it, but then on subsequent tries it was high immediately, with no discernible low to start with?
Is that correct?
Is that correct?
Yeah, it was hard to be 100% as it appeared to be split seconds. But I'm sure I saw high/green longer one time.
I'll try more times when Claire is free to do the powering on and off.
is green high on your probe? - mine is red high , green low
