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Switching multiple pins on - is it OK? Mine blew..

Just Love Pinball

Just Love Pinball

Registered
Joined
Aug 17, 2014
Messages
59
Location
Southend, Essex
Hi, I've built myself an 'arcade' and have 11 pins. I was hoping to switch machines on in groups of 4 using switches on the wall. However, after trying this I think I have damaged the power supply / line filter on my Funhouse.
When I switch machine on with power switch under cabinet, game immediately trips my consumer unit fuse :( Other machines work fine.
So, I take it, that it is advisable to always switch one machine on at a time?
Should I have a special fuse fitted in the consumer unit?
Any advice greatly appreciated. I haven't yet delved into the machine to see what I've blown...
 
Just Love Pinball said:
Hi, I've built myself an 'arcade' and have 11 pins. I was hoping to switch machines on in groups of 4 using switches on the wall. However, after trying this I think I have damaged the power supply / line filter on my Funhouse.
When I switch machine on with power switch under cabinet, game immediately trips my consumer unit fuse :( Other machines work fine.
So, I take it, that it is advisable to always switch one machine on at a time?
Should I have a special fuse fitted in the consumer unit?
Any advice greatly appreciated. I haven't yet delved into the machine to see what I've blown...
Click to expand...

It's more than likely coincidental unless you have a wiring issue. A lot of collectors, myself included turn on multiple pins at once. I think it's advisable to have them all on one RCD on the consumer unit though to stop you tripping out the entire house!!
 
Just Love Pinball said:
However, after trying this I think I have damaged the power supply / line filter on my Funhouse. When I switch machine on with power switch under cabinet, game immediately trips my consumer unit fuse :(
Click to expand...

Almost certainly coincidental and probably would have done the same if you'd switch it on under the cabinet rather than at the wall.

Just Love Pinball said:
So, I take it, that it is advisable to always switch one machine on at a time?
Should I have a special fuse fitted in the consumer unit?
Any advice greatly appreciated. I haven't yet delved into the machine to see what I've blown...
Click to expand...

It depends on what start up current they are drawing and the rating of your consumer fuse unit. If it is an old style fuse unit then it ought to be updated to a modern RCD unit.
 
If it is a modern consumer unit is it tripping the main switch/RCD or the ring main MCB? If the latter is there a case here for fitting a type C MCB rather than type B? ( type C is more resistant to initial surge ). Real electrician step forward now ( college was many years ago :) ).
 
Funhouse worked fine until I put the 4 pins on 1 circuit.
After switching on all 4 at once about 5 times, Funhouse went Short Circuit.
The Consumer unit is new, but yes I need to swap fuse from a 16a to something a bit bigger and yes that Type C sounds like a very good idea!
I'm assuming that Funhouse does have a fault now, it instantly trips the circuit breaker - not the RCD as already pointed out, so I'm going to order a new line filter.
At least you've all confirmed that multiple machines powering up or down is OK to do.
My concern was that back EMF from the transformers might cause a surge, like that that seems to have blown the filter on Funhouse.
Thanks guys, your help is great!
 
Update-
After blowing up my colour DMD on my TOTAN possibly through a surge, I now have reverted to switching all my machines on one at a time instead of 5 at a time.
Sean at Pinball Palace in Kent came to the rescue. Nice guy and gave me a few tips on maintenance.
 
Turning on so many old electrical machines simultaneously is inviting trouble. System 11s can fire solenoids on startup for example, one dodgy line filter could trip a rcbo......

Much safer to turn them on individually.
 
Isn't funhouse of an era where the power input doesn't have the extra thermistor installed to stop it pulling too much juice on startup?

I know my Diner doesn't have one, and it will occasionally trip the outbuilding RCD. I was going to retro fit one.
 
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A similar discussion came up fairly recently on the Forum and Type B vs Type C circuit breaker to cope with power surge is certainly a consideration as mentioned previously. There was also a discussion on average load (amps) draw per game in start up and run mode vs rated consumption per manufacturer. Not sure how this relates to your set up as you only mention one specific supply with a 16amp rating but I guess you may have several circuits in use. Not sure what else is using those circuits too. As a qualified electrician I'd suggest a bit of caution in automatically upgrading the 16amp fuse (which I am assuming you are referring to as being in the consumer unit) for something bigger because the fuses are primarily there to protect the circuit wiring (i.e. the installed cabling that the circuit has been designed on). This is often a poorly understood point. It may well be that the circuit is designed to carry more than 16amps but suggest you check this out if you do not already know. You don't want the prospect of melted cables and fire! RCDs are another issue and an additional protection specifically sensitive to pick up current flow imbalances so could be tripped by some less than perfect wiring in a pin on start up. Not to be confused with power surge handling and the Type C/B comments. Apologies if you know this stuff already but it's an often poorly misunderstood topic in general although less so on this forum with folk who have an electronics background.
 
I was always scared stiff :) of that back EMF from one transformer going into another causing a spike on the secondary windings and thus doing some damage. However, I upgraded the feed cable to my outbuilding, swapped fuses to inductive load types and wired my 'arcade' in 2 halves, switching 5 machines on at a time.
Most of the time this was OK but would still sometimes trip at start up. RCD always remained untripped. It was just the surge that tripped the fuse.
Then, my TOTAN colour DMD failed and Sean from Pinball Palace came over and helped me out. He echoed my concerns about switching on 5 machines at a time (Centaur, Black Knight, Funhouse, TOTAN and MM on that one circuit).
Much as I like the 'wow factor' of throwing a switch and lighting everything up, I would rather prefer now to avoid the possibility of a surge, so it's one at a time for me now :)
Great forum and thanks for all your replies and help, great to have a pool of expertise here!
PS I'm still looking for a Tommy if anyone has one let me know. TIA
 
Just Love Pinball said:
Update-
After blowing up my colour DMD on my TOTAN possibly through a surge, I now have reverted to switching all my machines on one at a time instead of 5 at a time.
Sean at Pinball Palace in Kent came to the rescue. Nice guy and gave me a few tips on maintenance.
Click to expand...

Unless there a 5 of you (or more), why would you need to turn 5 on at once? :-o
 
Seems like you had already thought through your power setup and are well aware of potential probs... .which is great. I guess there may people on the forum who can spec suitable surge protection circuitry for each machine if that's what it takes to give you the 'wow factor" back again.
 
Kman said:
Seems like you had already thought through your power setup and are well aware of potential probs... .which is great. I guess there may people on the forum who can spec suitable surge protection circuitry for each machine if that's what it takes to give you the 'wow factor" back again.
Click to expand...
I'm playin' safe now, one at a time for me :) Don't wanna get burnt twice :)
 
Ha ha ………...fair enough. You can always look into installing some remote control power switches and then turn the machines on randomly without appearing to even touch a switch!
 
Kman said:
Ha ha ………...fair enough. You can always look into installing some remote control power switches and then turn the machines on randomly without appearing to even touch a switch!
Click to expand...
Yes good idea, could try 2 at a time with remote power switched sockets if I find a 5 way one :)
 
Good luck with the trial :thumbs:. There is a range of product out there so something should be up to the task as these are claimed to have wide domestic use and there are a lot of domestic appliances which are inductive and not to mention capacitive as well.
 
Kman said:
Good luck with the trial :thumbs:. There is a range of product out there so something should be up to the task as these are claimed to have wide domestic use and there are a lot of domestic appliances which are inductive and not to mention capacitive as well.
Click to expand...
Oh yes, capacitive! Forgot that one :)
 
When I turn a pin on I see the LED fixtures very briefly pulse, like what happens when the induction oven comes on. So , I just turn on one at a time.
 
I turn my 4 pins on individually with the switch on the cabinet, but I turn on all 4 of my arcade cabinets at once as they share the same step down transformer
 
My 1967 Bally EM has a neat related feature, no power toggle switch at all but it "wakes" on power from wall into a standby "anti-cheat" state, no GI etc still appears off, then only fully wakes once needed, a game is started, coin inserted or can be put into attract by left flipper button. I guess this was so Op's could turn them all off and on together, but save power, bulbs, heat damage until the machine was needed and could quickly walk along a line of Bally's using the flipper buttons to put them all into attract. :thumbs:
 
astyy said:
My 1967 Bally EM has a neat related feature, no power toggle switch at all but it "wakes" on power from wall into a standby "anti-cheat" state, no GI etc still appears off, then only fully wakes once needed, a game is started, coin inserted or can be put into attract by left flipper button. I guess this was so Op's could turn them all off and on together, but save power, bulbs, heat damage until the machine was needed and could quickly walk along a line of Bally's using the flipper buttons to put them all into attract. :thumbs:
Click to expand...
That's forward thinking! Great feature and ahead of it's time
 
I used to have 2 Williams machines in a bit of an awkward spot but on the same socket so would turn them on together and never had any issues. I now have a Gottlieb and a Capcom machine going into the same socket and if both come on together it trips at the main breaker for my flat. Very strange so I now just do all of them one at a time
 
MajesticPinball said:
I used to have 2 Williams machines in a bit of an awkward spot but on the same socket so would turn them on together and never had any issues. I now have a Gottlieb and a Capcom machine going into the same socket and if both come on together it trips at the main breaker for my flat. Very strange so I now just do all of them one at a time
Click to expand...
Those big transformers take a jolt. Changing the fuse on that circuit to one suitable for inductive loads would be a cheap gamble, prob cost about £6 on ebay :)
 
So I recommend getting someone to PAT test your games, its not a cure all for sure but it will pick up earthing an other issues. With older games you find all sorts of operator made hacks to the games, follow pinball heaven as he often is fixing machines with the most horrific hacks to them. Then check what you have your games connect to. Worth checking out what thickness of wire your sockets are connected with (2.5mm) and getting a tester to ensure all your sockets are earthed properly too. It would definitely be worth putting them on a separate consumer unit but beware. The electricians union change the base spec for what they will work on to keep them in business, so if you don’t have a modern consumer unit (which now needs to be metal) they may not do the work or try to sell you something you don’t need. If you have something that uses real fuses then please get it swapped out.

In my shed I was able to arrange the electrical sockets so I can turn 40 games on at once. I only have space for 20 so maybe over engineered. I have them all on WiFi plugs and Alexa turns them all on or off. At the same time! Do be aware though, that if you have a lot of pins on the same ring with sub par wiring and they are all on the go, you will find that some of them perform worse than if it’s the only game on.

Cheers
Neil.
 
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