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Stuck Ball Ruling?

yellowreggae

yellowreggae

Registered
Joined
Jan 26, 2012
Messages
298
Location
London
Alias
Tim Thornton
We had an interesting situation tonight at the club during the final. I won't tell you what our ruling was but how would you rule this 'stuck ball' on Embryon as a tournament director? Bear in mind the little red flipper was not active so flipping it was not an option.
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I don't know the game, but it looks to me to be out of the possibility of saving - so no... not a stuck ball. Needs draining.
 
Ball doesn't look stuck to me, it's just resting on top of a rubber. The player either has to go for an extreme nudge to try and get it through the gate (not likely) or just let it drain imo.
 
In a comp I could understand it being ruled as stuck, if the tilt is tight there's a good chance of losing the bonus just trying to get it off there but clearly it's going down the drain anyway so I'd say glass off but put it down the drain, unless the player wants to try and save it which looks virtually impossible. Un-sticking it and putting it back in play would defo be out of the question.
 
Letter of the rule, or spirit of the rule...

In my opinion that's a drained ball unless the player wants to take the tilt chance on nudging it back in.

The way I see to judge a stuck ball, is that in an ideal world all that we want to do is dislodge the ball where it lies, and allow it to take its natural course. Now, even a stuck ball freed up that is dead, center going SDTM, there is still a chance for a player to take a tilt warning or two (on most games) and save that ball. Because realistically 99.9% of all games out there, there is nowhere that the ball can get stuck above the flippers, that a 'dislodge' would instantly doom the ball, like it would here or in any other case where a ball is stuck while draining.

The fact that we put the ball back in the shooter lane is not because it's any fairer - it's not - but is a simple practical fact of life. Judges have to take off the glass and put the glass back on while resolving this situation. There's no other consistent way to achieve this while just 'dislodging' the ball unless people are playing without glass on. The shooter lane is chosen instead of trapped on a flipper (if at all possible) because it's less advantageous to have to re-plunge than it is to have a free, trapped up ball - very slightly.

Arguing that this ball should go back in the shooter lane, or some other outcome other than draining it, or allowing the player to risk their neck on a mega-nudge, at least in my eyes is a decision based solely off of the letter of the rule with a view to gaining an advantage, and with no consideration as to the spirit of the rule and how it came about.

That being said, I remember having a stuck ball resolved with a strong magnet through the glass. Glass taken off, ball dislodged, ball stuck to glass by magnet, glass reinstalled and lockbar reinstalled, and the magnet whipped away at the count of three with the ball as close to where it was stuck as possible. That's the ideal and in this case, would be a neat way to solve it - have the ball 'reset' about an inch about that rubber. Player still has to make a nudge to get it back but it's no longer nearly impossible, and it's not TOO much of a freebie. This is of course, a non-starter for games with non-magnetic pinballs.
 
That ball is a goner. It looks like a stuck ball with no chance of saving it.

Real world solution is to remove the glass and drain it. The player should not be forced to bang the machine to move it
 
Stuck, or just fortunately balanced?

I thought stuck meant unable to be rescued from gameplay without intervention, whereas this is just killing time before a drain (unless someone with ultra-skillz could volley it up with a nudge, then push it over to the left through the gate).

I don’t play in tournaments though, so my opinion is less relevant.
 
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IFPA rules cover this:

"Any ball that comes to rest in an outlane, where any portion of the ball is below the outlane post, is not deemed a stuck ball. In these instances, players will have the option of attempting to free the ball themselves or to ask a tournament official to manually trigger the outlane switch and drain the ball for them"

(And same applies to balls stuck on posts, divots, concave lamp inserts etc that are DIRECTLY ABOVE the outlane too, including the inlane/outlane post.)
 
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I have known balls to get stuck on the post that separates the inlane from the outlane. Mr and mrs pacman right hand side for example.

In my example, the ball is not irrevocably lost (which I think @Wizcat 's extract covers). So the player runs the risk of a drain and/ or a tilt if he bangs the machine.
 
I loved this Peter, do another one, It's like a mini quiz!

Sticky thread!!
 
Stuck on the kickback? Still in play then. Same as a SDTM which somehow hits the apron and bounces back in. The table has given the ball back
 
IFPA rules have that covered too:

"Any beneficial malfunction which results in a player being able to continue play of a ball that normally should have ended is normally allowed once per game. Examples of this would include an unexpected software ball save or a ball that comes to rest on an unlit kickback in the outlane (which will lead to a ball search, kicking the ball back into play). Any such behavior shall not be allowed if it repeats, meaning that tournament officials may require players to allow the repeatedly-saved ball to drain, or play on the machine may be terminated in accordance with catastrophic malfunction rules, at which point repairs may be attempted. "
 
Well done Wizcat.....

I'm surprised though, I wonder why they thought once was OK? The ball clearly should have been dead.
 
It's a very good question. No idea! I have just posted that question into a channel for tournament directors to discuss these things, so I'll report back if anything interesting comes out of it.

(And for any other tournament directors or keen tournament players - it's a really good resource that allows for practically real time ruling discussions with experienced TD's across the globe : https://join.slack.com/t/pinballtd/ )
 
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