I just learnt a couple of things....

[ArrBee]

living in the middle of Ireland means that I have no access to pinball other than virtual. (which I play a lot of)
I used to play a lot "back in the day" and was handy enough without being a wizard.

More recently I've been thinking about getting a pinball, now that I'm at a stage in life where I can.


.... So I found myself in Houston for work and thought I would use the opportunity to look for some pinball.
I ended up here http://www.gamepreservehouston.com/ for an afternoon and I discovered a few things...
1. I'm not as good as I thought I was Maybe it is that I have trained myself to virtual pinball and I need time to switch back...
2. I don't like LEDs. any of the older machines that had them retrofitted were very noticeable with a strobing effect. I didn't notice it so much on the newer tables which I assume would have LEDs? Is that because they are designed for LEDs from the start or something?
3. Maintenance is very important! LOL. The quality of some of the tables was poor and it effected gameplay hugely!
4. The newer games aren't half bad. I found the flippers more....aggressive? than the older tables from the 90's but overall I could be happy with a new table I reckon

 

[BigIan]

Get yourself along to the league meets and train some more, most of us are not much use we just play for the craic

 

[Atlantis]

You wont have long more to go and have some machines to play in tullamore .
Was just waiting for divorce to kick in and get my hidden investments sorted and il be on the buying spree again(heads up sellers) and you be more than welcome to practice here.

 

[Monkeyboypaul]

2. I don't like LEDs. any of the older machines that had them retrofitted were very noticeable with a strobing effect. I didn't notice it so much on the newer tables which I assume would have LEDs? Is that because they are designed for LEDs from the start or something?

There are 2 ways to do LEDs in Pinball:

1> don't bother.
2> Get decent LEDs and combine them with an LED OCD board, or ensure the system is designed for LEDs in mind (like the very latest modern JJP's and Sterns). This approach adds cost, because those boards aren't cheap, as are much newer machines, but they do LEDs right.

I'd argue most people didn't experience LEDs properly in the past - either through crappy bulbs, or nasty headache inducing strobing with epileptic blinking - and as such they've got a bad reputation. When done correctly - no strobing, nice fading effects, their obscene default brightness under control, real white coloration (not blue or yellow) & reduced 'clown puke' GI colours everywhere - then there's no real comparison; LEDs win everytime. Purists will always disagree, but you can't please everyone.

 

[huggers]

Yeah LEDs done right blow incandescent bulbs out of the water on most games. No contest for me but as with all these things it's personal preference

 

[Kenny Taylor]

As long as you buy quality LED's you won't get strobing. I have a mix, some pins all incandescents and others LED's. Something to be said for keeping it original.

 

[Durzel]

I guess I don't know what "strobing" is in the context of LEDs because I don't see anything like that on mine. It doesn't "feel" wrong, at least. I've got Comet bulbs throughout though, and there's zero ghosting anywhere.

Is this..

..strobing?

(feel free to criticise if that's what is meant by "bad" LED behaviour)

 

[kevlar]

I've only seen LED's strobing on older, 80's machines.

 

[ArrBee]

Get yourself along to the league meets and train some more, most of us are not much use we just play for the craic

Yeah, I'm on the mailing list and am trying alright. the last 2 havent lined up for me unfortunately...
On that, what do people tend to do afterwards? drive home, or head to a hotel?

You wont have long more to go and have some machines to play in tullamore .
Was just waiting for divorce to kick in and get my hidden investments sorted and il be on the buying spree again(heads up sellers) and you be more than welcome to practice here.

Seriously? That would be very cool. there is a VR rental place in town there next to Jumping Jacks that I was thinking would benefit from a machine or 2 but if you are going to build a collection, even better! I'll bring my homebrew

There are 2 ways to do LEDs in Pinball:

1> don't bother.
2> Get decent LEDs and combine them with an LED OCD board, or ensure the system is designed for LEDs in mind (like the very latest modern JJP's and Sterns). This approach adds cost, because those boards aren't cheap, as are much newer machines, but they do LEDs right.

I'd argue most people didn't experience LEDs properly in the past - either through crappy bulbs, or nasty headache inducing strobing with epileptic blinking - and as such they've got a bad reputation. When done correctly - no strobing, nice fading effects, their obscene default brightness under control, real white coloration (not blue or yellow) & reduced 'clown puke' GI colours everywhere - then there's no real comparison; LEDs win everytime. Purists will always disagree, but you can't please everyone.

Yeah, I figured this was the reason as I could easily detect it only on machines that would have originally shipped with normal bulbs. The new ones were fine.




Oh yeah I forgot the other thing I learned:
5. lighting is really important. I couldnt see top half of the playfield on half the tables...

 

[ArrBee]

I guess I don't know what "strobing" is in the context of LEDs because I don't see anything like that on mine. It doesn't "feel" wrong, at least. I've got Comet bulbs throughout though, and there's zero ghosting anywhere.

For me, the strobing is a fast flicker most detectable in peripheral vision.
I dont notice it when looking at the bulb as much as detect it while tracking the ball. It really messes with my perception of motion like the difference between 30fps and 60-100fps on a screen.

 

[Spadge]

I notice it more in sterns (and the led-ocd board makes a massive difference) especially in LOTR, Spiderman. However, I have comets and LED-OCD boards in mine, looks lovely.

 

[Monkeyboypaul]

I guess I don't know what "strobing" is in the context of LEDs because I don't see anything like that on mine. It doesn't "feel" wrong, at least. I've got Comet bulbs throughout though, and there's zero ghosting anywhere.

Is this..

..strobing?

(feel free to criticise if that's what is meant by "bad" LED behaviour)

Is your GI LED? If so, go into the settings to test GI dimming - all strings - at the lower values between 1-8 (so 1-5) you'll see them flickering - unless your bulbs are anti ghosting, in which case you might not see anything at 1. But that's what i mean by strobing.

What you're seeing in that video is the harsh blinking ON/OFF of LEDs. So the fading effects designed-in for the original incandescent bulbs are lost e.g. when the electro-static noises go off when you lock a ball "don't touch the door" and the inserts all flicker madly. Particularly the build-up to SHOWTIME on TAF, where the mansion insert alternate fairly rapidly, watch that with (no OCD) and without LEDs (incandescent).

Ghosting is the wrong insert being lit when it shouldn't be.

 

[Durzel]

GI is LED too. From memory nothing happens when I play with the GI brightness settings, they stay constantly lit. I can't remember whether I have GI dimming disabled though (Option 25), quite possibly I have.

I'm aiming to install LED & GI OCD this weekend. Need to change my start & extra ball buttons to LEDs first.