How long does pinball have left?

[David_Vi]

Was chatting the other day about how the younger generations don't care for Pinball, why bother with a giant heavy wooden box for just one game?

Most people into pinball are middle aged and upwards. There's a few younger folk but few and far between.
Theres a lot of younger Pinball players in the competition scene, especially in the USA, but most, if not all have parents who are into pinball so have grown up around it and given the opportunity to get into it.

Most younger people aren't going to have the exposure to pinball, the disposable income or room to own pinball machines.

So surely it's a ticking time bomb ?

How many years till the market is flooded and Pinball crashes and burns?

I realise how incredibly pessimistic and negative this post is . Please fill me with hope.

 

[Tilt_Birmingham]

People probably said this in 70’s then 80’s then 90’s and so on

Pinball spans generations and will continue to do so

 

[Wizcat]

You only need to look at how the youngsters are now dominating the competitions to see that there's a growing number of younger players. Doesn't particularly matter whether that's from older family members into pins or not. Either way, it's a growing past-time

Signs are good in my opinion, probably the most optimistic it's been for decades

 

[Ant-H]

I think interests can change with age. I only discovered my liking of pinball 3 or 4 years ago.

I remember as a kid in the 80s going to arcades and my dad trying to get me to play on the pinball machines as that’s what he used to play when he was younger.

But I had absolutely zero interest and viewed it as an old man’s game and would much rather play on the new video games of the day. The closet I got was playing pinball dreams/fantasy on my Amiga 500.

35 years later, I’m now trying to do the same with my kids and their friends

 

[David_Vi]

You only need to look at how the youngsters are now dominating the competitions to see that there's a growing number of younger players. Doesn't particularly matter whether that's from older family members into pins or not. Either way, it's a growing past-time

Signs are good in my opinion, probably the most optimistic it's been for decades

There's still less younger people than eveyone else. Not all of us have kids and those that do it's not a dead cert that the kids will be into Pinball.
So I think there's going to be less people into pinball as years go on.

People probably said this in 70’s then 80’s then 90’s and so on

Pinball spans generations and will continue to do so

Probably said, but still it's much different now when it comes to disposable income. It's now about the home market now, especially in the UK. I just can't see there being enough younger people in the hobby who are going to afford pins at home.

I'm not that young but I feel lucky as most of my generation can't afford their own home.

 

[russdx1]

Pinball is 100% in its golden years right now and will be dead in 25 as 90% of its market will be in a home sadly. Nostalgia keeps it alive and that’s running out as no one in today’s generation has nostalgia for it.

 

[VeeMonroe]

There were a tonne of young people at PBR Thursday night league. We were probably among the oldest people there.

 

[Tucks]

3 weeks

 

[M4carp]

I have 4 kids, 2 of them have had pinball at home all their life (22,24) the other 2 (30,33) had a Defender in their bedroom when toddlers
They will play but not really interested and prefer video games, also they don’t want to fix things. Cant see them wanting one at home later down the line but possibly would play on location.

My grandchildren will play but again more interested in video games, we play Fortnite together mostly and they prefer the MAME cab in my gamesroom that has 13 pins but they do like Medieval Madness and the only reason I still have it.

Not enough public places to play in the UK so can’t see it lasting, USA is a totally different situation with so many amazing places available to play so the young can experience it.

Time will tell.

 

[David_Vi]

Pinball is 100% in its golden years right now and will be dead in 25 as 90% of its market will be in a home sadly. Nostalgia keeps it alive and that’s running out as no one in today’s generation has nostalgia for it.

That's my thinking, most of the owners will be too old for the hobby, passed away, or in a home and the pins will flood the market.

There were a tonne of young people at PBR Thursday night league. We were probably among the oldest people there.

We get a tonne at the Pinball office but they rarely return. Usually they're with parents and get bored quick.

So 31 people played the league, you're saying most of those were young people? Doesn't look like that going by the results.
Or there was over 30 young people in attendance but not playing the league, so still you wouldn't be among the oldest there going by the majority.

 

[AlanJ]

more retro bars and pay to enter arcades. leisure activities with booze/food is not new but is diversifying outward from the old 10-pin bowling. darts, axe chucking, junk golf.

 

[David_Vi]

more retro bars and pay to enter arcades. leisure activities with booze/food is not new but is diversifying outward from the old 10-pin bowling. darts, axe chucking, junk golf.

It might survive if more locations existed. But I don't think a few locations that also do drinks or food will house all the pins that will appear as the demographic ages.
Plus we're seeing locations dying here, (electric circus), and others close to closing or struggling.

 

[mission65]

You need to get out more Dave, when I was in New York the 2 pinball bars I visited were heaving with youngsters and I felt very old

 

[David_Vi]

You need to get out more Dave, when I was in New York the 2 pinball bars I visited were heaving with youngsters and I felt very old

USA is a different beast!
What about all the games here?

 

[mission65]

USA is a different beast!
What about all the games here?

Ahhh OK just UK, very much older peeps

 

[Sgt GrizZ]

Was chatting the other day about how the younger generations don't care for Pinball, why bother with a giant heavy wooden box for just one game?

Most people into pinball are middle aged and upwards. There's a few younger folk but few and far between.
Theres a lot of younger Pinball players in the competition scene, especially in the USA, but most, if not all have parents who are into pinball so have grown up around it and given the opportunity to get into it.

Most younger people aren't going to have the exposure to pinball, the disposable income or room to own pinball machines.

So surely it's a ticking time bomb ?

How many years till the market is flooded and Pinball crashes and burns?

I realise how incredibly pessimistic and negative this post is . Please fill me with hope.

I give it 12 minutes

Also the average age of the combat soldier in Vietnam was 19 .
The average age of the pinhead in the UK is 49. 4-4-4-4-4-4-49

 

[VeeMonroe]

We get a tonne at the Pinball office but they rarely return. Usually they're with parents and get bored quick.

So 31 people played the league, you're saying most of those were young people? Doesn't look like that going by the results.
Or there was over 30 young people in attendance but not playing the league, so still you wouldn't be among the oldest there going by the majority.

There were people wandering in and out, so I can't tell how many people were there for the entire comp. There weren't thirty at a time.

There were two or three youngish couples, one of whom I thought did worse than me (but didn't - I was playing terribly for health reasons). At least four kids, but I'm not sure how many were entered into the competition.

About half the people looked my age, which probably meant they were a decade younger than me.

I noticed three or four of the usual white-haired older guys wearing ear protectors/headphones, but it wasn't the total "everyone is a white-haired guy called Dave/Andy/John"-fest that's at some competitions (no offence to the many, many white-haired chaps called Andy/Dave/John who play pinball ).

 

[VeeMonroe]

more retro bars and pay to enter arcades. leisure activities with booze/food is not new but is diversifying outward from the old 10-pin bowling. darts, axe chucking, junk golf.

This is what you get in London. Loads of these venues springing up and they usually have a couple of Stern Pros. Very occasionally, people branch out and have either an Addam's Family or an EM (usually an EM), but that's being deliberately edgy.

 

[SpiderPin]

I’m probably one of the younger people on the forum and whenever I mention (usually a few drinks down) that I play pinball people have NO idea what I’m talking about. Good chunk have never even seen a pinball machine. My Dad tells me about when he’d go the chippy as a kid and play pinball while his fish was fried and when he’d play pinball on his lunch breaks at the pub. Nothing really like that exists now - we’re just lucky to have the awesome locations that we do. If location play remains in clubs and arcade bars I think this right now will be the golden age of pinball as it just doesn’t have the exposure it used to.

 

[kev a]

Most people 40+ would have been exposed to pinball growing up, only a small fraction went on to become enthusiasts, at the same rate for todays youngsters that's that's a tiny amount.
Then again, we escaped the from real world into the virtual, kids today (especially the lockdown lot) have grown up in a virtual world, will they crave real world, analogue experiences?

I'm hoping to put one of my games in the staff room at work soon, we have a fair few 20 somethings, I imagine most will just ignore it, or push start, lose a ball and walk away, but would be cool if a couple of them get into it.

 

[VeeMonroe]

I’m probably one of the younger people on the forum and whenever I mention (usually a few drinks down) that I play pinball people have NO idea what I’m talking about. Good chunk have never even seen a pinball machine. My Dad tells me about when he’d go the chippy as a kid and play pinball while his fish was fried and when he’d play pinball on his lunch breaks at the pub. Nothing really like that exists now - we’re just lucky to have the awesome locations that we do. If location play remains in clubs and arcade bars I think this right now will be the golden age of pinball as it just doesn’t have the exposure it used to.

Most of the younger people I've spoken to got into it through playing virtual pinball/computer games, and then realising there were actual physical versions of the vpx tables. We were kinda similar, although we ended up playing the Williams Pinball app after playing some pinball-themed board games.

You need to be reasonably old/well off to have the money and space to keep an actual pinball machine at home (never mind several of them) - so no one is going to have one in a fifteenth-floor rental flat - but there's definitely a 'vpx-to-pinball' pipeline, which is getting bigger, not smaller, with Zen Pinball, Pinball FX, and the like.

Most people 40+ would have been exposed to pinball growing up, only a small fraction went on to become enthusiasts, at the same rate for todays youngsters that's that's a tiny amount.
Then again, we escaped the from real world into the virtual, kids today (especially the lockdown lot) have grown up in a virtual world, will they crave real world, analogue experiences?

My entire job takes place online. I'm desperate to get offline. This is the 'analogue renaissance' movement, which also includes LPs, board games and film cameras.

I'm hoping to put one of my games in the staff room at work soon, we have a fair few 20 somethings, I imagine most will just ignore it, or push start, lose a ball and walk away, but would be cool if a couple of them get into it.

Our sons' nanny (who is thirty) has got casually into pinball through being at our house, although she says most of our machines (with the exception of Godzilla) are unfairly difficult. I've tried to encourage her to go on a day trip with friends to PBR to play some of the easier/more toy-filled stuff, as she's really into novel recreational experiences (like axe throwing), and she really like the look of Addams Family and Monster Bash from seeing them on YouTube videos. It does help if you have a tutorial on hand, or just someone to teach the basics of the rules. Luckily, my six year old LOVES teaching the rules of pinball machines to literally everyone who enters the house.

 

[Gonzo]

Interesting

I think mine is probably the last generation where pinball was mainstream and played frequently. The mainstream part is important because it produced mass numbers who loved pinball and wasn't niche.

Firstly there are no youth clubs anymore. We used to play every Thursday and Saturday night. Our local cafe in Wimborne (scoffs) had a teenage area upstairs with 1 pinball and space invaders. Both pier arcades in Bournemouth and Boscombe had large numbers of pins and most pubs had a pinball machine.

Crucially there were not mobile phones, TV was a bit sh!te and there were only 3 or 4 channels. As a result, everyone had played pinball and so had their granny. Mainstream produces retro and nostalgia in large numbers.

As was mentioned above, most youngsters don't know what pinball is. Vee was talking about groups of 30-40 playing pinball. When I was at school everyone had possibly at least tried pinball and certainly everyone knew what one was. The fact that we now have pinball maps with locations to play on speak volumes. You wouldn't have needed a map before because pins were everywhere.

I was at a party on Saturday and whenever I spoke about pinball (I must have bored so many people) many initially assumed I was talking about ping pong.

Pinball will survive but it will shrink and I'm not sure the LE model will be unsustainable. I'm 50 and everyone my age played pinball or at least tried it. Time is squeezed so much by technology that in 30 years, pinball will just be niche with very few places to play.

In the US it will still be niche but it's a bigger country so the hobby will live on.

Nobody can truly know, but unless everyone starts playing it again, I'm not sure how pinball will produce the volume of retro participants in 30-40 years time.

Give it 20 years and it will be a buyers market I'm sure.

 

[russdx1]

Did stern not say its the collector home market keeping pinball alive in the states? there is location play as well but its a much smaller % and not enough to keep them alive. Its the older generation home collectors. And once this is gone in 25 years there wont be enough meat on the bone to keep it going. It's why there prices are sky high they know the money tree is dying and they are shaking the bastard thing to death LOL

 

[VeeMonroe]

I'm 50 and everyone my age played pinball or at least tried it. Time is squeezed so much by technology that in 30 years, pinball will just be niche with very few places to play.

I'd never played a full-size pinball machine until 2021. I don't even remember seeing a full-sized pinball machine growing up. When I did go to arcades, I remember one-armed bandits and coin pushers. No nostalgia about them, though, they were mildly amusing to a young kid.

I had a plastic pinball toy as a child (still loads of those about) that I played to death. I'd also played computer pinball on Nintendo DS (briefly, it wasn't very good). I got into pinball seriously through a combination of analogue dexterity games (we own a crokinole board and tumblin' dice) and nostalgia over the plastic toy. It was during lockdown, I was playing a pinball-themed board game (and board gaming is REALLY popular) and was talking about my toy. We downloaded the Williams app, played all the pins, and Googled how much the ones we liked cost. After a month or so, we randomly bought a Fish Tales with the topper missing - partly for the benefit of the kids. I remember the guy at Williams Amusements being *really* confused how he was talking to a newbie pinball owner who was looking specifically for Fish Tales - he didn't understand why we weren't going for the usual nostalgia purchases, such as Addams Family. I explained that I'd already played about 200 games of Fish Tales on the Williams app and it was my favourite out of the 'cheap' B/W pins. When it arrived in the house, I was blown away by having a physical version of the computer game with loads of mechanical moving parts - it was mind-blowing to me.

When lockdown eased, we went to PBR to play some of the Bally/Williams machines I'd played on the app (I remember the joy of walking into PBR and seeing a real Medieval Madness straight away in the entrance), and it went from there.

VPX is huge, Zen Pinball and Pinball FX is huge, and even my 76-year-old mum plays computer games. I think computer pinball is going to be much more of a driver going forwards than hanging around arcades because no one really hangs around arcades.

I personally think Stern is stupidly short-sighted not releasing virtual versions of their pins through someone like Zen, and promoting the computer games like mad. They would sell SO many additional machines, especially in the States where people have more money for consumer purchases and more space to keep pinball machines at home.

 

[andy]

Pinball nearly died in the early 80’s, look at production figures for games made in 82-84.

There were at least the 3 big manufacturers then, but when pinball nearly died again in the early 2000’s there was basically only Stern producing machines and it’s a good job they carried on!

There will always be ups and down - it’s just that it’s been only up for the last 20 years - but I’m pretty sure pinball will always be around.

 

[steve brum]

USA is the market that counts. It survives there it survives

FYI our demographic wont surprise anyone on here though most locals think the pinballs are for kids

going forward commercially in the UK it will need tickets. Playing just for fun isnt cutting it on pinball or video games anymore

we need to get public gaming shows motoring again. They bring pinball to new fans. COVID has destroyed that now for TOO long. PINFEST is for the hardcore. PLAY GLASGOW and BLACKPOOL gives us 2 events this year with pinball. In 2019 it was 11!

 

[VeeMonroe]

Pinball nearly died in the early 80’s, look at production figures for games made in 82-84.

There were at least the 3 big manufacturers then, but when pinball nearly died again in the early 2000’s there was basically only Stern producing machines and it’s a good job they carried on!

There will always be ups and down - it’s just that it’s been only up for the last 20 years - but I’m pretty sure pinball will always be around.

I watched a video series on the history of pinball, and it's been a series of peaks and troughs. Hasn't gone anywhere. I think we're definitely in a golden age now, but that doesn't mean it's going to disappear.

The idea that it's dependent on arcades and a particular age of player is the same arguments people made about cinema -vs- TV. The existence of TV hasn't stopped people going to the cinema!

Looking at London venues, they're not 'pinball venues'. There's a proliferation of 'non-pub' activity venues, with stuff like axe throwing, darts, laser quest, virtual reality/immersive computer games, crazy golf, bowling, bingo, go karts... with some arcade machines and a few pins. 6.5% of the population of London is Muslim, but we all joy along quite happily with each other, so there's a HUGE demand for fun things for young people to do in mixed faith groups that don't rely on booze. You'll see big gaggles of young people in their late teens/early twenties, usually including young women in hijabs, playing darts or crazy golf.

Star Wars and Mando is a popular choice for these venues (there are LOADS of Star Wars onsite in London) because the popularity of the licence. There are ALWAYS people playing Star Wars at every venue I've been too. It's basically impossible to get a game in when I go to these places. A:IQ is also a common choice, but tends to get played less. It's usually guys playing pinball, for some reason, either with a kid or in a group or two/three guys (the latter is really annoying because they're there for AGES).

USA is the market that counts. It survives there it survives

Pinball is massive in the US. I cannot believe the number of American fantasy authors I follow on Twitter who either play on location or own their own pins. I was even in a military SF anthology with a guy who owns Deadpool and a couple of other pins, and was going into nostalgic raptures over my Fish Tales.

 

[David_Vi]

Maybe I should have rephrased it "how long does Pinball have at this level?"

There's no doubt it'll drop and the market will be flooded. There's no way there's going to be new people in to replace all those who are currently in the scene with collections.

Negative nancy here.

 

[Happypin]

I only got the T.Z pinball to add to a games room in a holiday home I had, the holiday home has gone but the T.Z is sitting with 9 others at home now. I had zero interest in pinball until I added a second machine next to the T.Z and that’s when the problem started.
pinball is safe, it’s up to us to promote the hobby with friends and family which I do with a BBQ on many occasions each year.

 

[Pop Bumper Pete]

Hard to tell

For me, pinball is about returning me to when I was a teenager, So i tend to like mid70's to 1990's machines
But you find that given the chance, people like to play DMD Bally/Williams, 2010 and on Stern, or modern LCD games
As long as it is interesting, people will play

But if you are hoarding woodrails for your retirement, I think you will be out of luck