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Expired Hobbit Pre-Order

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I am most probably wrong but wouldn't it be easier for both parties to come to an agreement on price and refund the money?

Good luck with the sale whatever happens. Very jealous as I would love to have the money for a brand new pinball table.
 
Ghostbusters is already ranked in the top 20 pins. Reckon the premium/LE is going to be a big hit.. Would be great to own a HUO pin. If I was buying new that would be first one on my list..
 
Kenny Taylor said:
Ghostbusters is already ranked in the top 20 pins. Reckon the premium/LE is going to be a big hit.. Would be great to own a HUO pin. If I was buying new that would be first one on my list..
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Latest pins always go straight up the rankings as all the owners who have dropped ££££££ on a new one start hailing it as the second coming in pinball A because they are super excited at their new toy or B because they realise it's a turd and want to bail so it's best to not admit it's a turd when you want to get out of your machine :)

I have been lucky to enjoy that NIB feeling on two occasions and it's pretty sweet and and I must admit I was a B when after a week of playing Mettalica that I realised it was a steeming turd hahah so you either bail or hold on for the code updates. Don't think I will buy NIB again but if I was minted I would :)
 
Will said:
Latest pins always go straight up the rankings as all the owners who have dropped ££££££ on a new one start hailing it as the second coming in pinball A because they are super excited at their new toy or B because they realise it's a turd and want to bail so it's best to not admit it's a turd when you want to get out of your machine :)
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Is that the same for Hobbit then, what are the ratings for this one like? straight into the top 10?
 
Nope, It got slated on pinside as being slow, floaty and having nothing to shoot at but now the new v1.10 code is out things are turning around pretty quickly for The Hobbit, Think it got to rank 60 where as GB was in the top 15 instantly. Must be really good as everyone says GB is a brutal drain monster.
 
Actually the Hobbit was in the Top 10 for it's first week, it's now at 90:eek:.

I'm sure it will climb back up as the code improves, like WOZ did, though I'd be surprised if it makes the top 20.

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I will be interested to see how those on this forum think of it as it gets more play, I'm going with my gut feeling that it will progress to something great and different to the norm with code progression, something so beautiful can't be totally crap surely!
 
Depends what kind of game you like as Hobbit will have really long ball times. Not a game for multi play with good players;)

I think it will end up a bit like TSPP so players who like that will like Hobbit.
 
Yes Phil did. But after 4yrs if I can get a little bit of ROI and offer a game for less than RRP then I will.
 
cooldan said:
If I was a newbie joining the hobby now, I'd want a MM and a TZ and a AFM first, then whatever game I remember from my heyday.
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And that's why they're so over priced - Nostalgia.

Don't get me wrong, they're good games, but nothing compared to the majority of the latest releases from Stern or JJP for depth, fun, sound or even build quality
 
Wayne J said:
And that's why they're so over priced - Nostalgia.

Don't get me wrong, they're good games, but nothing compared to the majority of the latest releases from Stern or JJP for depth, fun, sound or even build quality
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The best Pins come from the 90's era and always will. That's when the various manufacturers hired the best talent and designers were at their peak producing some marvellous ideas and innovations in the industry.
 
Wayne J said:
And that's why they're so over priced - Nostalgia.

Don't get me wrong, they're good games, but nothing compared to the majority of the latest releases from Stern or JJP for depth, fun, sound or even build quality
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Stern Pros of the Spike era are absolute cack in fit, finish and general build quality. Both in relative and absolute terms. Unless GB is very different, I doubt LEs and Premiums will go back to SAM quality - even the current reruns of SAM titles with the cheapo metal backboxes. Personally, I wouldn't touch the Pros with a barge pole for £5k ... or more for 'better' versions. Especially when they continue to ship with poor design and bodged fixes (GoT orbit & Slimer) or refusing to accept design flaws (like captive wireform on GB).

After seeing the great cab art on the GB Pro in digital form, and then it in the flesh .... well, it was very disappointing. Even at US prices the cost cutting has gone way too far. Stern seem to be hell bent on returning to DE / Sega days.

I wouldn't say aural fidelity or sound sample size or quality has improved much from better BW titles to most Sterns. GB finally has some better sound hardware, but number of sound samples is really low.

Fun? Well there are definitely more modes most of the time, but not a huge difference for some games. Shots don't feel better tuned and bad design still abounds.

JJP are a different kettle of fish, but at UK / EU prices, beyond the budget of many. My Luci feels like a budget game in every sense next to my WOZ.
 
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Kenny Taylor said:
The best Pins come from the 90's era and always will. That's when the various manufacturers hired the best talent and designers were at their peak producing some marvellous ideas and innovations in the industry.
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Well said.. But JJP & STERN Both have the best designers that designed in the 90s!
 
Dave Bishop said:
Well said.. But JJP & STERN Both have the best designers that designed in the 90s!
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This is rather worrying, though.

Most are getting pretty elderly, and at least half look like clog popping may be pretty imminent.

AFAIK Stern don't have any young designers. Don't even think there are any under 50.

Dutch Pinball and Heighway seem to be looking more to the future, though apparently Heighway games 3, 4 & 5 will all be Oursler (sadly he particularly may not be around much longer).

I'd be very surprised if within 5 years 2-3 currently active 'legends' aren't either retired by ill health or dead.

People don't like hearing this, but death and aging are an inescapable part of life.
 
Stern is just building different games cause customers are different.
The gameplays of new machines are more complex so with a better lastability.
are they more fun to play? this is another debate.
 
ducks said:
This is rather worrying, though.

Most are getting pretty elderly, and at least half look like clog popping may be pretty imminent.

AFAIK Stern don't have any young designers. Don't even think there are any under 50.

Dutch Pinball and Heighway seem to be looking more to the future, though apparently Heighway games 3, 4 & 5 will all be Oursler (sadly he particularly may not be around much longer).

I'd be very surprised if within 5 years 2-3 currently active 'legends' aren't either retired by ill health or dead.

People don't like hearing this, but death and aging are an inescapable part of life.
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(from my post http://www.pinballinfo.com/communit...stbusters-and-who-follows-their-legacy.33228/)

http://www.forbes.com/sites/sethpor...ew-ghostbusters-pinball-machine/#7b42c7b835ce

I thought this Question & Answer was particularly poignant:

Where would you like to see pinball go in the future as the game continues to grow and evolve and is popular again?

What I would like to see, and I haven’t seen it yet, is young designers. I’ve gotten very few inquiries as far as what happens when I stop designing, Steve Richie stops designing, John Borg stops designing, or any of the other designers from other companies. Hopefully maybe there’ll be some other companies coming up that will take the load.

I’m very aware of the fact that there’s nobody to pass the mantle onto. I would like to see some young fellows with some great ideas. It’s a strange vocation, I guess you could call it. You have to have a little bit of artistic tendencies and game consciousness and also mechanical design ability. You can’t make something that’s just not going to exist in real time and real space. If you can combine all that together then you’ve go yourself a pinball designer.​
 
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don't forget the recent poll of opinion recently put together by Paul Garner @Wizcat here - both BWS and Stern featured in the top ten by popularity, but the former was an easy winner between the two.

when it comes to build quality i have to agree that JJP is the tops by miles (based on n=2) and that Stern's is going down again after they pulled their socks up when JJP first threw his hat into the ring. prices up, quality down. gameplay is complex as they seem to aim for the home market a lot more nowadays, so it's those 'lonely men' that Dave @dave Roberts (?) eloquently referred to.
 
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Agree B/W games built real well. Sam games ok, and Spike seem to feature more cost cuts.

That said, when you get over the annoyances of design flaws, Stern gameplay really knocks it out of the park.

My TWD premium is now one of my favourite games of all time. Yes, it has the BG ramp which could have been designed better and needs tweaking but gameplay is an addictive rush:)
 
cooldan said:
when it comes to build quality i have to agree that JJP is the tops by miles
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I played The Hobbit at Tilt this weekend and there were multiple issues. For a machine only a couple of months old it doesn't bode well.
 
Monkeyboypaul said:
(from my post http://www.pinballinfo.com/communit...stbusters-and-who-follows-their-legacy.33228/)

http://www.forbes.com/sites/sethpor...ew-ghostbusters-pinball-machine/#7b42c7b835ce

I thought this Question & Answer was particularly poignant:

Where would you like to see pinball go in the future as the game continues to grow and evolve and is popular again?

What I would like to see, and I haven’t seen it yet, is young designers. I’ve gotten very few inquiries as far as what happens when I stop designing, Steve Richie stops designing, John Borg stops designing, or any of the other designers from other companies. Hopefully maybe there’ll be some other companies coming up that will take the load.

I’m very aware of the fact that there’s nobody to pass the mantle onto. I would like to see some young fellows with some great ideas. It’s a strange vocation, I guess you could call it. You have to have a little bit of artistic tendencies and game consciousness and also mechanical design ability. You can’t make something that’s just not going to exist in real time and real space. If you can combine all that together then you’ve go yourself a pinball designer.​
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I think the biggest problem at Stern is Gary Stern. I suspect like many men in his position he's very unwilling to think about, plan for or accept his own mortality. To him, the ancient designers are relatively young. I doubt their mortality or the need for young blood is something he wants to think about. Stern's making money hand over fist, while they are they should sponsor a masters degree in physical game design at the university of illinois.
 
cooldan said:
when it comes to build quality i have to agree that JJP is the tops by miles (based on n=2) and that Stern's is going down again after they pulled their socks up when JJP first threw his hat into the ring. prices up, quality down. gameplay is complex as they seem to aim for the home market a lot more nowadays
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Gameplay and themes are subjective, so people are always going to love/hate different games.

One thing for sure though is that Stern build quality is probably the lowest we have ever seen since day 1 of pinball machines existing.

From what I have seen of JJP games, the build fit and finish is FAR superior to Stern. If I was going to spend new in box money on a game, then I would at least feel like I was getting something substantial for my money with a JJP game. (same with what I have seen of Heighway's table's, certainly more VFM than Stern)
 
DP build quality looks good as well.. From what I have seen.

Out of TBL, GBLE, THBLE which one would you keep?
 
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Dave Bishop said:
DP build quality looks good as well.. From what I have seen.

Out of TBL, GBLE, THBLE which one would you keep?
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TBL because who knows if there'll be another game ... DP don't seem too short of cash, and I expect TBL will sell well once production is ramped and code is improved, but you never know. Otherwise TH ... might not please everyone, but they went for a very different game design and code will no doubt be superb again with Johnson and Estes on it. GB, despite a nice art package, seems like another by the numbers cost cut Spike-era game ... a ton will be sold, and it's probably the last non Vault Edition DMD from Stern. Picking one up years later for a fraction of the NIB price should be relatively easy.
 
To answer that, we'd have to have seen and played them all. I've never seen any of them but based on what I've read and watched, I'd go GB>TBL>TH
 
GB is too stop and go for me, that's my main issue with the gameplay not the outlanes or flipper gap like people have been mentioning - art looks amazing though, missed opportunity with the mono dots.

People complain about TBL due to the bowling alley, being that it interrupts play a lot and actually isn't that cool of a mech.

TH ticks all the box for a home game for me so that's where my money is staying.

Overall I would go TH > TBL > GB. But chuck Alien in there and it's a different story as it could be AL > TH, time will tell....
 
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