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Gottlieb Genesis Help.

Spandangler

Spandangler

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Hey peeps
I’ve got a load of flash lamps not working (the ones around the robot.)
They don’t come on in test or with the great reveal!
Having watched @MajesticPinball tutorial they should come on with the backbox flashers during attract.
Thers a relay pictured here. If I push the top switch closed it activates the backbox flashers. Nothing happens when I push the bottom switch

D190CC50-1075-46ED-8D82-761D9A8AD25C.jpeg

Can anyone help where I should start to diagnose this?
Not got a clue with Gotts.
Cheers
Gaz
 
Clean contacts on both of those relay switches mate and see if that changes anything....is there any power across the bottom switch ?
 
I don’t know mate. How do I check for power at the switches? Sorry. Stupid question. But I’m not entirely sure
 
It's an EM style relay so will have power going through the switches which is why the switch contacts are bigger :thumbs: If you bridge the two sides of each switch contact with your DMM you should see power on the one that makes the backbox flashers work so check to see if the same on the other one. If there's power then likely a bad switch contact on the relay so clean it with a small file (gently) or some sandpaper. If no power on the bottom one then the problem lies elsewhere, trace the wires back and see where they go.
 
Ok so the bottom switch doesn’t have any voltage. Not sure if it’s supposed to. I’m only assuming it’s for the flashers anyway. The top switch flicks between all manner of voltages.
These Gotts are so alien to me I haven’t a clue where to start. It’s doing my nut.
 
Ok, so trace the wires back from the bottom switch and see where they go :thumbs: I don't know specifically on Genesis but it's my assumption that these wires will likely always have power to them when the game is on and it's the relay being pulled shut that is the control for when the flashers are on or off (otherwise why bother with using an old style relay setup). I'd suspect a connector issue tbh mate...and assuming that the MPU/Driver board doesn't control that power flow then check for those colour wires in a connector on the power board. If nothing then have a look at the Driver board.

This is all guess work tbh mate and someone who actually has a Genesis might chime in with how it actually works :rofl:
 
Just found this on PinWiki:
  • Genesis drives #67 lamps with an auxiliary power board. Power to this board is controlled via a relay that turns itself to activate the "reveal"; this relay is activated by a lamp driver, but the relay will keep itself on until one revolution of the reveal gimmick is done.
So if I'm reading it right, power to the aux power board needed to run the flashers comes through that relay and the relay is activated by the lamp driver (so the power to the coil comes from the lamp driver). Do the backbox flashers work in attract and during the reveal?

You're not getting power across that relay so have a look at the power end (I assume a connector on the power board) and the aux board end :thumbs:
 
Mate the wires go into a million wires in the loom. The same colour seems to be on other controlled lamps. It’s a head ****. I have no manual either which doesn’t help. I’m not in the right mood to tackle it tonight. It’s a glass half empty kinda night 🤣.
Thanks though mate. I appreciate the time taken to respond.
 
ronsplooter said:
Just found this on PinWiki:
  • Genesis drives #67 lamps with an auxiliary power board. Power to this board is controlled via a relay that turns itself to activate the "reveal"; this relay is activated by a lamp driver, but the relay will keep itself on until one revolution of the reveal gimmick is done.
So if I'm reading it right, power to the aux power board needed to run the flashers comes through that relay and the relay is activated by the lamp driver (so the power to the coil comes from the lamp driver). Do the backbox flashers work in attract and during the reveal?

You're not getting power across that relay so have a look at the power end (I assume a connector on the power board) and the aux board end :thumbs:
Click to expand...
Yeah I saw that on pinwiki too. It was foreign to me. I think those aux power boards are little ones under the playfield? Nothing with that wire colour goes to them though 😆.
 
Walk away mate, fresh look another day like you say :thumbs: if the backbox flashers work in attract and in game then that proves that the coil on the relay is being pulled in which proves that the lamp driver is ok so then it comes down to why is there no voltage going through the other switch (I'm 95% sure it's going to be a connector somewhere as you'd expect both the backbox and playfield flashers to have to same source voltage).

I'll tag James @MajesticPinball now and then maybe he can advise before you're ready to look at it again :D
 
Yeah mate the coil is defo being pulled. I maybe chasing a red herring with that relay. It could be in the motor relay 🤷‍♂️.
cheers Chris. I’ll have another look in the morning with fresh eyes
 
There's a little animator board somewhere under the playfield that runs the flashers via that switch on the relay, check to see if you have voltage at either of the contacts on the relay first if not I'd suspect the animator board.... although I can't remember where the board is exactly but you should be able to spot it... It's a little board with a load of transistors on, check the connectors on this badboy if you've got no voltage at the relay.
 
Thanks James. I have voltage on one of the two switches. So there is power to the relay. I’ll poke around in the morning
 
Sorry I just went back and read the above again... Is the relay firing or not? If not then one of the lamp driver transistors is bad as that's what drives the relay.

If you're manually closing the relay and the backbox animation works but the playfield doesn't I'd check voltage as the set of contacts driving the playfield animation... Or a super easy test is to just grab a screwdriver and short the blades together and see if you get flasher action. If you do have voltage here clean the contacts and maybe adjust them so they're closer together. If you don't have voltage your next suspect is the animator board under the playfield.
 
Just found an old picture if mine, so these boards circled are the animator boards, there's 2. One for backbox flashers and one for playfield flashers. I'd say swap these round at some point if all above fails and see if the fault moves to the backbox flashers. Screenshot_20231203-213524~2.png
 
Replace all Flash lamps with new or known working ones first before doing any other work...! Sometimes a few non-working ones are enough to stop all of them working...
 
Thanks everyone. Some stuff to be getting on with.
I have a feeling they’re not 89 flashers but something like 67??? Does that make any difference
 
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Sorry to hear you're having issues with Genesis! I should pop over 😁😆


Spandangler said:
Thanks everyone. Some stuff to be getting on with.
I have a feeling they’re not 89 flashers but something like 67??? Does that make any difference
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure they're standard 89s. I swapped a few in James' when they died.
 
Ok so I’ve swapped the aux power boards over. Still no dice.

Is there a table chart anywhere that says which tranny drives those flashers so I know where to start?
 
Spandangler said:
Ok so I’ve swapped the aux power boards over. Still no dice.

Is there a table chart anywhere that says which tranny drives those flashers so I know where to start?
Click to expand...
They're not driven by a transistor....m they're driven by the switch blades on the relay (the relay is powered by a lamp transistor) if the relay is firing it's not a fault with a drive transistor. Have you checked all the fuses at the transformer panel?
 
MajesticPinball said:
They're not driven by a transistor....m they're driven by the switch blades on the relay (the relay is powered by a lamp transistor) if the relay is firing it's not a fault with a drive transistor. Have you checked all the fuses at the transformer panel?
Click to expand...
Ahhhh thanks man. That makes sense to me now. I’ll check fuses properly tomorrow.

Are we happy that relay drives those flashers?
 
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Spandangler said:
Thanks everyone. Some stuff to be getting on with.
I have a feeling they’re not 89 flashers but something like 67??? Does that make any difference
Click to expand...
You put 89’s in and they won’t last 5mins. A few of these lamps are flashing in attract mode like the backbox ones in Stargate. Install LED ones 😊
 
paddythegreek said:
You put 89’s in and they won’t last 5mins. A few of these lamps are flashing in attract mode like the backbox ones in Stargate. Install LED ones 😊
Click to expand...
You don't want LEDs in this area of the playfield it looks horrendous. Seen a handful like that... The whole aesthetic is a mad scientists lab and the incandescents really fit in with that, plus the entirety of the bulb is visible and it just looks naff as anything with LED flashers sticking through the perspex. Stargate pulses the flashers endlessly whereas Genesis it's only once every few minutes for a few flashes each 👍🏻
 
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