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Do you enter competitions?

Wayne J

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Joined
Jul 22, 2011
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2,842
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Walsall
Alias
WWJ
The majority of the people I know through pinball I have met at competitions, whether that be the UK regional league meets, smaller one-off competitions or the larger shows.

I'm always surprised when I discover someone nearby who has pinball machines but I've never met at a competition.

So my question is this; how many people on here don't bother entering the many competitions that occur around the country. More precisely, WHY don't you attend? Is there anything that competition organisers could do to encourage you to attend?
 
1 main reason - children and a subsequent lack of free time.

The other reason - crap at playing pinball, and play more in the darker, colder Winter months.
 
I'm crap at real pinball through lack of experience and often have little time as I spread myself thin - but I'm looking forward to haunting UK tournaments with regularity. Got the bug from the Pinball Arcade tournaments... as of writing, currently first in the Steam Silver bracket (as Rittless) and have no intention of letting it go this week :D
 
I used to play in the League but it has got to the point where it takes up a whole day. I don't wish to commit that amount of time.
I would be more up for a monthly get together at a local pub for a couple of hours or so.
 
I would be more up for a monthly get together at a local pub for a couple of hours or so.
Shame you're too far away from Tilt, that's specifically why I set up the Monday Night League.

1 main reason - children and a subsequent lack of free time.
Children are certainly welcome at all of the Midlands league meets, since the introduction of the U16 league they look forward to it as much as the adults, rather than them feeling they're being dragged along with dad's friends.

I'm crap at real pinball
I think that the majority of the people who attend the regional meetings treat it more as a social gathering with some pinball thrown in. It's a very small percentage who actually take it very seriously (and yes I know that I'm one of those few)
 
I've played in a couple of competitions but haven't made a habit of it up until now. Originally didn't really see the point as didn't consider myself to be a good enough player. My skills still aren't exactly where I'd like them to be but certainly a lot better then when I started. It's a long way to travel to some of the competitions and would be a waste of time if knocked out in the first round! Meets where a minimum number of games are guaranteed are probably more appealing to most, especially new players. A good selection of machines available to play outside of the competition helps too albeit understandably this isn't always practical.
 
Children are certainly welcome at all of the Midlands league meets, since the introduction of the U16 league they look forward to it as much as the adults, rather than them feeling they're being dragged along with dad's friends.
He's only 2, with an attention span of a gnat. Do the venues have nappy changing facilities?? I also personally think the general gameplay noise is a little too much at that age. Mind you, he likes the "monkey one" and beat my high score on Iron Man.
 
I've been to two competitions and enjoyed it throughly- the big issue for me is location and timing. Both those events took a whole day including travel so it's a serious commitment.


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I'm crap at pinball so I just go for a laff and a bit of banter/drinking/recovering

Vin
 
Distance is a big factor.

Also a few comps I entered a few years which were not fun really. UKPP for one, from memory. Everyone seemed mega serious and so just did qualifying games and thought, never again.

Compare to Greg's event. Excellent fun, everyone friendly and a format all abilities enjoyed.

So, sticking to the more social events from now on.
 
I used to when I lived in London - used to do the London and SE Leagues - Also went to the UKPP when it was in Daventry and the South Cost Slam,

In the smaller events especially the London and SE Leagues it was really good fun, very casual and not so many people you have to spend all afternoon queuing for a 5 minute game

The bigger events I did do the comps for always seemed to involve a lot of queuing and as I knew there was no chance of actually getting through, so that was less attractive

Went to my first event since moving west (the excellent welsh pinball weekend) and just played the non comp games and had a laugh..... First time I'd been to an event where there was the chance to play in a comp and not actually played in it.

For me the events are more about meeting other pinball people and drinking many beers

Oh and I'm crap and pinball, so me not playing is going to be missed by absolutely nobody!
 
Done them all, and all over Europe. Was just outside the top 100. Nowadays the system is so unfair and self fulfilling that I don't bother. All the fun has been sucked out of tourneys, they are to busy trying to conform to a flawed set of rules to achieve max points. For example having to play 5 set of games and after losing the first 3 still having to play the remaining 2. TGP bollox. Spread over 2 days so that day attenders can't enter etc.
Whole scene needs throwing in the bin and re doing.
 
Also during all the tournaments I've ever played in I have never understood how the scoring, ranking, points thing worked!
 
Played in a few comps now. It was a bit daunting at first going to a league meet and not knowing anyone but everyone was really friendly so really nothing to feel anxious about.

The Midlands league meets don't really feel like a competition at all, more of a chance to play some machines that I wouldn't normally get to play.

At the bigger events I prefer the way the main competition is run at 8 bit flip where the comp machines are the event machines and everyone can play them rather than them being separated and a cordened off.

And after a few comps, I'm still rubbish.... I do have some good games but way too many bad ones to do well unless I get lucky, but it's still fun because there is always a chance I'll win. I got drawn against Martin Ayub in the 1st round at 8 bit flip and immediately resigned myself to losing in the 1st round and getting knocked out early, but I managed to beat him. (Admittedly he went to win the comp and I went out in round 3 or 4, but it was fun.)

I think playing against someone is always more fun than just recording a score. I know my scores are rarely good enough to get near the top if there are 20+ players recording a score on a machine, but on 1 game on any given machine I can sometimes do well enough to beat really good players, especially if they have a bad game.
 
Used to love the league before my job condemned me to no free weekends.
Also got all a bit serious for me as it grew.. I do miss some of the meets but don't miss the odour of pinhead ;)
 
Jack my son, and I play comps when we can...it's great fun..very few take it that serious to ruin things. The atmosphere generally is welcoming and friendly.. particularly @robotgreg and Fiona, @Moonraker and moira. (There is always a surprise tasty veggie treat at special when lit WHO no one ever admits to baking!...such humility.....)....have not competed at any of the larger events due to family commitments..but would love to but I get travel sickness north of the m25....:) FYI @Wayne J i neither understand the rules of the comp, or the rule sheets of all the pinballs produced since 1995 I just play pinball and see what happens.. such fun!!:thumbs::wave:
 
Running a business and wife being a working professional then factoring having three children... Equals no time...

WPPR is worthless and taking the fun out of things, there clearly isn't a fair system across the board so if you based in the UK no point having a comp with WPPR because 99% of them are worthless in grand scheme of things.

We should boycott and focus on competitions just for fun in the UK
 
I really like the league as you get a good afternoon of Pinball for a fiver. Noone gets knocked out. We all play the same games. Short ones and long ones. Same for everyone. Folk are not too competitive. Very little smashing of machines etc. Really sociable.

With the ukcs events - I am far less likely to attend for two reasons

1 the amount of time you are stood around waiting for others to finish.

2 the fact you might get two games and be out.

The uk open in 2015 was fab. The best tournament I have been to. You got 10 guaranteed games against 10 folk on day one. This enabled me to play top international players and meet a load of new people. I scraped through into the knockouts on day 2. But even there it was best of three so you got a decent shout on day 2.

Some ukcs events are brutally short. You might get two games and you are out. Given how long it takes to get there, it makes it a very marginal decision whether to attend in my opinion.

Also some games give massive ball times and multiple successive multiballs meaning folk are stood about waiting for ages. This happened at 8 bit flip recently. If some guys draw three modern sterns and some others draw three pre 90s games the latter might be stood around for an hour waiting for the former to finish. And this happened last month.

I know that there is a real politik at play here. Some folk obsess over points. That is why they travel to tournaments. They want to maximise the points they can receive. They want to design tournaments to maximise points. They may also have lots of games that are needed to make the tournaments happen in the first place

In my humble opinion, and speaking as someone with just two years of experience of all this, try to give folk a decent amount of competitive play. And do not have them waiting around for ages when other players are playing forever on modern sterns with easy tilt and outlane settings that give massive game times.

Easier said than done. All this is voluntary. Community minded folk make this happen by risking their games, spines, cars and houses for no reward whatsoever. But if you ask for opinions you get them.

I think the changes made to world cup are a great idea. Doubling round one means at least 6 games for the southerners and those who travel a long way. So well done.
 
Would love to enter more but 2 young kids knocks that on the head a bit. Lots to choose from in Europe, though! Bit sad that the ifpa system has got a bit complicated, seems to have put a lot of people off.
 
I enjoy league meets for the reasons stated above, tend to enjoy them up until the actual competition starts.
And I go to shows, again almost entirely for the social aspect and the grokking over games I rarely see, so I enter the comps there just because. But rarely qualify past he first round.

I know pinheads that live to compete, and others to whom a broken game is heaven but who lose interest when it's fixed, others who just like to chase down and collect. Some are in it for the modding, some love the artwork, some just love to tinker.

That's what makes it such a great hobby, all those great reasons, and more, to be a pinhead.
 
I enjoy playing at the Monday Night league at Tilt Brum when I can. Not always able to attend the meetings though, especially at bank holiday weekends due to family commitments.

Otherwise I don't normally attend competitions, mainly due to the amount of time standing around waiting just to play my brief turn. Some of the people who compete take things far too seriously (the glove and headphone brigade especially!) which puts me off. :suspect: The WPPR points nonsense needs to be knocked on the head too, what's appropriate for the big meetings in the States isn't relevant for here in the UK.

I'm not a very good or consistent player, plus I really HATE having people watching and commenting on my game/performance. I'd also rather play a machine by myself and enjoy progressing through the modes at my own pace, rather than keep getting interrupted and having to watch someone else take their turn. I'll attend a show or meet just to play different and new machines, and also to meet up with fellow players rather than to compete.
 
It's interesting to hear the complaints about the points system - I have no knowledge of it yet, and while I did notice the odd pacing of rounds at 8bitflip myself, I struggled to find the bad side in it - it's a nice full day out for me, although I wasn't fully social that day I know I'll put faces to more and more of you class acts over time - and lots of variety of pinball to play. Even though I properly get into the tournament side of any gaming, no sweat blending it up with lots of pinball to play.

Gonna just have to sit down and figure it out one day... and get myself registered.
 
I'm another one that HATES other people watching me attempt to play pinball. I have no interest in the competitive aspect at all. I just like the flashing lights.
 
I've only just started entering them this year, mainly because I've always expected to get knocked out straight away, and I expect it to happen for some time.
I usually work Saturdays and it can be hard to travel when you don't have a car too.
 
The competitive side is pretty irrelevant to me. If you look at who's in the SE league then you know there's no chance of being in the top 3 as they are just of a totally different standard. I like getting to play against people provided it's fun. I actually managed to qualify for the finals last year by the skin of my teeth but saw no point in travelling the length of the country to get knocked out as soon as I got there. If it had been at a show etc I probably would have gone.

I'm not really sure what the new fee arrangement is that's being discussed on Pinside but I'm not really happy with the idea of having to pay more at meets in order to give a fund for the elite players in the US. I might have been reading that wrongly but if it's introduced then I'd be far less likely to want to play and/or host as it takes away a fair amount of the goodwill factor.
 
I'm not really sure what the new fee arrangement is that's being discussed on Pinside but I'm not really happy with the idea of having to pay more at meets in order to give a fund for the elite players in the US. I might have been reading that wrongly but if it's introduced then I'd be far less likely to want to play and/or host as it takes away a fair amount of the goodwill factor.

Complete and utter red herring and only relevant in the US and Canada.
 
It's good to hear so many viewpoints.
It is clear that there is never going to be a format of a comp which pleases everyone, but there doesn't seem to be anything negative being said about the big shows.

Some people don't like the head to head play as it interrupts their game, others prefer that format and the social side.
Some want to play their games and leave, others don't mind the wait in between games. (There is NEVER going to be a format where there isn't some wait between rounds, unless there is a timed format)
Some people play to satisfy their own competitive nature, others for the social side, others just to play machines they don't usually play.
Some chase WPPR points, others don't care about them, others want to ditch them all together (which I see as nothing more than cutting off your own nose to spite your face)
Some won't enter because they think they're rubbish, others because of the time and travel for a potentially early exit.

At least we don't have the kind of money they have in the US to complicate matters. That's when people start getting serious.


FWIW
My point of view is that there can't be enough competitions, with as many different formats as possible so it doesn't become boring and stale.
The perfect scenario would be everyone plays the games non-stop the whole day. That just isn't possible.
The next best would be that once they have been knocked out, there are plenty of other machines for them to play. The majority of the comps / meetings in the UK are hosted in people's homes, so that is not always possible either.
I try to vary the different formats for the comps I am involved in regularly (UK League, Monday Night Tilt League, Tilt High Score Comp, World Cup Revisited, Christmas Cracker, As Yet Unnamed) That's 33 different events, held on 21 different days every year!
I also have ideas for other formats of comp - some vastly different from anything seen before - but just don't have the venues to be able to do this.
I understand that on occasion some people can find some of the scoring formats confusing, this is something that all of us organisers need to try and address, BUT anybody who has ever ran a comp will know there are so many different things to be overseeing at any given time, especially if you want to compete yourself, that sometimes this could get neglected. Even something as simple as printing a couple of A3 sheets which clearly outline the scoring and route through the tournament.

I like entering comps not just because, being a fairly decent player, I feel I always have the chance of winning but because I enjoy challenging myself. I think it's highly unlikely I'm going to win the Belgian Open but I still go and enter every year.
Competition isn't just about who finishes in the trophy positions, it's about if you've finished higher than your mate, or someone you don't like, or higher than you did previously.

As for WPPR pts, yes it's not particularly accurate, especially comparing players who play in the US, to players who play in Europe, to those who play purely in the UK, BUT it is the only ranking system currently in place and it's FREE. It does make a fairly good approximation as to relative standings, and there is no doubt that it is a draw to many players. I have heard more than one player say that they're not going to attend an event because it's not worth any points. I hope that this remains in the vast minority, or pinball will start to diminish out of the public eye.
I have been as vocal as anybody direct to Josh pointing out the flaws in the system, but I seem to be a lone voice coming from the UK, so am just regarded as an individual complaining that he isn't ranked as high as he should be. Which although true ;-) is not the reason for voicing my opinions. I truly believe that we have at least 3 players in the UK who could quite easily be in the top 20 in the world, and maybe even top 5, if the ranking system could somehow cope with players competing in different continents.
 
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